Syndergaard and deGrom

[brewerswinNLcentral]

Personally i wouldnt give them hiura, burnes and peralta for degrom.

just my opinion..

The first 2 have great potential and i see peralta already as a SP in our rotation.

Sure its a knee jerk reaction to 3 starts, but i love him

[shanedog19]

Assuming Nelson comes back (big if), I think we are more than fine with a rotation of Nelson, Anderson, Chacin, Guerra, and Davies/Suter/Peralta. It will take a king's ransom to obtain either of these pitchers, please stay far away DS.

[Jaylyn]

Assuming Nelson comes back (big if), I think we are more than fine with a rotation of Nelson, Anderson, Chacin, Guerra, and Davies/Suter/Peralta. It will take a king's ransom to obtain either of these pitchers, please stay far away DS.

That's the best case scenario, but here we are in late June and Nelson is not throwing off the mound yet. I don't think we will see him this year. I keep waiting to see the press release that Davies is being shut down for the year. Hope not, fully expecting it though.

That leaves us with a rotation of Anderson, Chacin, Guerra, Suter and Peralta. With Woodruff and Burnes in queue. Not a jaw dropping rotation, but they get the job done. I wish 2017 Anderson would show up more, Chacin, has settled in nicely, Guerra has found his 2016 form, Suter just continues to amaze me with how he does it and Peralta has really impressed.

I think DS will go out and pick up another starter, but I agree with you Thor and deGrom is going to cost a ton and hope he stays away as well.

[StearnsFTW]

Have you ever negotiated for anything before in your life? Your first offer definitely shouldn't be your best offer. Start low and work your way up. Even if the Brewers were willing to send Hiura, Burnes, and Peralta in trade for Degrom...opening with that offer would be dreadful negotiation.

 

Your approach pisses people off. Maybe not everyone, but definitely a large percentage. You're wasting their time.

 

That's entirely untrue, especially considering MLB GM's are involved in negotations in pretty every aspect of what they do. I'm not saying you offer Sogard for Machado. That was an extreme example that someone else came up with. Obviously you should make at least a decent offer. From a housing perspective, if a house is listed at $200k, I'm not talking about offering $20k or even $80k. Maybe the max you are willing to pay is $180k, so you start at $165k or $170k and see what happens. Maybe that house is a hot item and goes for $250k in a bidding war(in which case the $165k offer gets balked at), or maybe your offer is good enough to entice them and you get it at $175k because they are worried the value will go down in a year.

 

That example can surely be translated into prospects to some degree, though that translation is a bit more tricky because every player/prospect is valued differently by every mlb team. My main point, there's a massive gap between an insultingly low offer and a decent offer that can be added to to get a deal done. I don't think Burnes + Peralta as headliners in a Degrom deal is insultingly low. Maybe the Mets demand Hiura and you replace him with one of the pitchers. Or maybe the headliners are good enough but they need a couple good secondary prospects(Ray). Or maybe the Mets don't even bother talking to us because we don't have 5 top 50 prospects and that's the only way to start a conversation for either pitcher.

 

This is a reasonable post. Except for the ridiculous non sequitur at the end.

[wildcat2237]

More confirmation that Degrom and Syndergaard are available..

 

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/06/jacob-degrom-trade-rumors-noah-syndergaard-mets.html

 

An ESPN writer posted a story today stating the Brewers should go all in and get Degrom...

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23919537/real-not-brewers-need-trade-jacob-degrom

[Brewersfanatic2882]

Hiura, Burnes, Peralta, and Domingo is a lot to get rid of but that's probably a realistic price that the mets are going to ask for, and eventually, will receive from some team.

[JohnBriggs12]

Assuming Nelson comes back (big if), I think we are more than fine with a rotation of Nelson, Anderson, Chacin, Guerra, and Davies/Suter/Peralta. It will take a king's ransom to obtain either of these pitchers, please stay far away DS.

 

Couldn't agree more, especially with a pitching market with quality rentals out there. There's no Sabathia, but this isn't the 2008 rotation either. Hey I love deGrom, but it's the old putting all your eggs in one basket scenario. I don't think that's wise. Besides getting another bat or two might be a bigger priority right now.

[paul253]

Given how many options we have for the rotation next year (Chacin, Anderson, Davies, Suter, Nelson, Guerra, Woodruff, Burnes and Peralta) I think I’d be willing to move Woodruff plus either Burnes or Peralta in exchange for one of these guys.

 

So start of with: Woodruff and say Peralta. I’d add in Santana as a guy who is kind of at a sell low point but could entice NY and someone who has a 30 HR season under his belt and has some upside still.

 

So Woodruff, Peralta, Santana. If you add in Hiura is that enough?

 

Degrom for Hiura, Peralta, Woodruff and Santana? It’s basically what the ESPN suggested but I’m substituting Woodruff for Burnes.

 

That would leave next years rotation as likely Degrom, Guerra, Anderson Nelson and Chacin with Burnes and Suter next up. Solid rotation but our farm would take a major hit. Is it worth it?

[pacopete4]

No.

[StearnsFTW]

Given how many options we have for the rotation next year (Chacin, Anderson, Davies, Suter, Nelson, Guerra, Woodruff, Burnes and Peralta) I think I’d be willing to move Woodruff plus either Burnes or Peralta in exchange for one of these guys.

 

So start of with: Woodruff and say Peralta. I’d add in Santana as a guy who is kind of at a sell low point but could entice NY and someone who has a 30 HR season under his belt and has some upside still.

 

So Woodruff, Peralta, Santana. If you add in Hiura is that enough?

 

Degrom for Hiura, Peralta, Woodruff and Santana? It’s basically what the ESPN suggested but I’m substituting Woodruff for Burnes.

 

That would leave next years rotation as likely Degrom, Guerra, Anderson Nelson and Chacin with Burnes and Suter next up. Solid rotation but our farm would take a major hit. Is it worth it?

 

I think that's a strong offer. And I'd do it.

 

It would hurt, but I'd do it.

 

I'd want to keep Santana though, and I don't know that the Mets would value him very much given their outfield is already fairly glutted.

[adambr2]

Like most others I think, I believe we can acquire DeGrom, but believe we cannot do so without sending Keston Hiura. I'm not willing to trade nearly 6+ seasons of that bat for that. Especially giving up 6+ seasons of Peralta too. I understand why some people are, but I wouldn't. Maybe if Hiura were an outfielder, I'd feel differently, but I'm not giving up that bat at 2B.

 

I'm not necessarily a believer that an 'ace' is a big game changer for us the way that many do. Obviously it would be great to have, but I think if you're expecting us to pull away from the Cubs if we acquire DeGrom you'll be disappointed.

 

For 2019, give me Hiura at 2nd, a healthy Jimmy Nelson and 180 innings of Freddy Peralta, I'll take my chances with that.

[pacopete4]

Like most others I think, I believe we can acquire DeGrom, but believe we cannot do so without sending Keston Hiura. I'm not willing to trade nearly 6+ seasons of that bat for that. Especially giving up 6+ seasons of Peralta too. I understand why some people are, but I wouldn't. Maybe if Hiura were an outfielder, I'd feel differently, but I'm not giving up that bat at 2B.

 

I'm not necessarily a believer that an 'ace' is a big game changer for us the way that many do. Obviously it would be great to have, but I think if you're expecting us to pull away from the Cubs if we acquire DeGrom you'll be disappointed.

 

For 2019, give me Hiura at 2nd, a healthy Jimmy Nelson and 180 innings of Freddy Peralta, I'll take my chances with that.

 

Agree completely. That counseling we’ve been attending is working out nicely. This is my feeling on this as well. Attack with numbers. Young controlled players for many seasons.

[mattyo]

Obviously everyone would love deGrom, but with what it would cost, and the current state of our roster, it hardly makes sense to make the move this year. Get a rental bat, and look into a rental SP, but no way am I giving up Hiura or even Peralta after what he's shown so far.

[adambr2]

Like most others I think, I believe we can acquire DeGrom, but believe we cannot do so without sending Keston Hiura. I'm not willing to trade nearly 6+ seasons of that bat for that. Especially giving up 6+ seasons of Peralta too. I understand why some people are, but I wouldn't. Maybe if Hiura were an outfielder, I'd feel differently, but I'm not giving up that bat at 2B.

 

I'm not necessarily a believer that an 'ace' is a big game changer for us the way that many do. Obviously it would be great to have, but I think if you're expecting us to pull away from the Cubs if we acquire DeGrom you'll be disappointed.

 

For 2019, give me Hiura at 2nd, a healthy Jimmy Nelson and 180 innings of Freddy Peralta, I'll take my chances with that.

 

Agree completely. That counseling we’ve been attending is working out nicely. This is my feeling on this as well. Attack with numbers. Young controlled players for many seasons.

 

 

Plus...Peralta may be the real deal. I understand its only 4 starts at this level, but this guy has been dominating hitters since the start of 2017 and just keeps getting better. I understand he's going to be on an innings limit this year and we'll just have to deal with that, but we're past the point of him being a second piece in a big deal and more to a point of needing to see what we might have with this guy.

[NievesNoNO]

I would trade almost any combination of minor league prospects to acquire DeGrom. I also agree it doesn't get done without Hiura.

 

Hiura+Santana/Phillips+Woodruff+Burnes??

 

I question how "really" available he is. He's a legitimate ace. I know there's a lot of ball to be played yet and the Brewers have disappointed many of us in the past with their 2nd half performances but this is a team with a real chance now. I wasn't in the boat to push last season but based on the off-season, their current record (best in the NL) and the structure of their MLB roster, I'm ready to "go for it"

[adambr2]

I would trade almost any combination of minor league prospects to acquire DeGrom. I also agree it doesn't get done without Hiura.

 

Hiura+Santana/Phillips+Woodruff+Burnes??

 

I question how "really" available he is. He's a legitimate ace. I know there's a lot of ball to be played yet and the Brewers have disappointed many of us in the past with their 2nd half performances but this is a team with a real chance now. I wasn't in the boat to push last season but based on the off-season, their current record (best in the NL) and the structure of their MLB roster, I'm ready to "go for it"

 

I'd be willing to assume that an inconsistent offense has cost us more games than a guy who won't participate in 80% of games is going to be able to help with. If you're willing to 'go for it' with DeGrom, better find a way to fix that lineup, especially since Hiura won't be here and we have no other offensive help coming up soon in the system.

[pacopete4]

Part of me wants to see them trade Peralta, Burnes, and Hiura away and watch the tears roll down the faces of our fan base as they still cry about not being able to develop talent.

[paul253]

I'd be willing to assume that an inconsistent offense has cost us more games than a guy who won't participate in 80% of games is going to be able to help with

 

He’d be very helpful in the playoffs when, in a one game wild card series if that’s what we end up with, it’d be him instead of probaly Chacin. Even over the course of a 7 game series he’d probably pitch at least two, possibly three times. And that means less starts for whoever our fourth best starter is.

 

Additionally, he’d be more likely to keep us in the game low scoring games when our offense isn’t producing. One way to win if you aren’t scoring runs is to give up fewer runs. Our rotation has been about average in ERA so there is definitely room for improvement.

 

The fact is Degrom or Syndergaard was definitely improve this team, particularly in the playoffs if we make it. I get that the offense is in a rut but I don’t necessarily think acquiring an average type hitter will be much help either. You’re basically talking about one, maybe two more hits a game, if that. Is that going to cause us to score 3 more runs a game? No way. It will help, but the only way the offense is truly going to get better is if at least some of the players who are struggling get better. We can trade for a Walker or Hairston type player but if the offense is going to turn the corner guys like Braun and Santana and Shaw and Arcia and Pina will have to get better.

 

Also, while I wouldn’t mind seeing Hiura up at the end of the year let’s be hesitant to annoint him as our offensive savior. It’s not often a guy starts the season in A ball and ends up having success in the Major leagues the same year. Hiura is likely more of a next year type fix.

[paul253]

Part of me wants to see them trade Peralta, Burnes, and Hiura away and watch the tears roll down the faces of our fan base as they still cry about not being able to develop talent

 

I don’t think many people complain about the Brewers not being able to develop “talent”. I think they complain about the Brewers not being able to develop pitching. And four quality starts from Peralta not withstanding they’ve mostly been right.

[KeithStone53151]

More confirmation that Degrom and Syndergaard are available..

 

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/06/jacob-degrom-trade-rumors-noah-syndergaard-mets.html

 

An ESPN writer posted a story today stating the Brewers should go all in and get Degrom...

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23919537/real-not-brewers-need-trade-jacob-degrom

 

ESPN naturally wants a big market to get all our best prospects, typical wishful thinking article by them. Maybe we should trade Braun for Ike Davis...

[bill hAll Star]

I'd be willing to assume that an inconsistent offense has cost us more games than a guy who won't participate in 80% of games is going to be able to help with

 

He’d be very helpful in the playoffs when, in a one game wild card series if that’s what we end up with, it’d be him instead of probaly Chacin. Even over the course of a 7 game series he’d probably pitch at least two, possibly three times. And that means less starts for whoever our fourth best starter is.

 

Additionally, he’d be more likely to keep us in the game low scoring games when our offense isn’t producing. One way to win if you aren’t scoring runs is to give up fewer runs. Our rotation has been about average in ERA so there is definitely room for improvement.

 

The fact is Degrom or Syndergaard was definitely improve this team, particularly in the playoffs if we make it. I get that the offense is in a rut but I don’t necessarily think acquiring an average type hitter will be much help either. You’re basically talking about one, maybe two more hits a game, if that. Is that going to cause us to score 3 more runs a game? No way. It will help, but the only way the offense is truly going to get better is if at least some of the players who are struggling get better. We can trade for a Walker or Hairston type player but if the offense is going to turn the corner guys like Braun and Santana and Shaw and Arcia and Pina will have to get better.

 

Also, while I wouldn’t mind seeing Hiura up at the end of the year let’s be hesitant to annoint him as our offensive savior. It’s not often a guy starts the season in A ball and ends up having success in the Major leagues the same year. Hiura is likely more of a next year type fix.

 

If we get into a Wild Card game:

 

1. I would be happy that I didn't go all-in on this season if that's what ended up happening. I'd be happy to be a WC team but if you told me right now we're gonna be a WC team, I'm standing pat at the deadline.

 

2. I'd start Hader (or Jeffress depending on the nature of the other team). Either that or I'd start Chacin or Guerra with the assumption that Hader may be coming in in the 2nd inning if there's any trouble.

 

I agree that he's a huge help between a WC game or pitching 2-3 times/series but I'm not sure that I'm ready to weaken the 5 year outlook to go all in this year yet.

[KeithStone53151]

Part of me wants to see them trade Peralta, Burnes, and Hiura away and watch the tears roll down the faces of our fan base as they still cry about not being able to develop talent

 

I don’t think many people complain about the Brewers not being able to develop “talent”. I think they complain about the Brewers not being able to develop pitching. And four quality starts from Peralta not withstanding they’ve mostly been right.

 

I generally don't think Brewers fans would struggle as much as you think. I personally was frustrated when we traded for Yelich and signed Cain. They weren't BAD moves in my opinion, but those moves weren't the types of moves I wanted to make. Despite not liking the moves, I quickly embraced them and tried to view them in a positive way. Those moves meant we were going to be much better this year than we would have otherwise, and it would be a fun season.

 

I assume I'm not the only one that had a similar thought process on the Yelich/Cain moves, or really any other moves we've made. Whether we like specific moves or not, we are all still brewer fans and can easily adjust to being hopeful about a move versus negative and pessimistic.

[MrTPlush]

Jacob deGrom is an absolute game changer if we acquire him, especially in the postseason. Chacin or deGrom? Who do you prefer in a one game playoff? How about when he pitches multiple games in the NLDS, NLCS, or World Series? He went 3-0 in the NLDS and NLCS in 2015.

 

I could easily see him being our Justin Verlander and going down in Brewers lore. That being said I’m glad it isn’t my decision to trade a bunch of near MLB ready players for an Ace.

 

I will say I wouldn’t package both Burnes and Peralta...not a big deal as I am sure they would take a different package. I also wouldn’t do it as a stand-alone move. I’d want to see the offense improved up the middle somehow (not really much out there to improve C). The article mentions Cabrera, that might not be a bad option.

[KeithStone53151]

 

If we get into a Wild Card game:

 

1. I would be happy that I didn't go all-in on this season if that's what ended up happening. I'd be happy to be a WC team but if you told me right now we're gonna be a WC team, I'm standing pat at the deadline.

 

2. I'd start Hader (or Jeffress depending on the nature of the other team). Either that or I'd start Chacin or Guerra with the assumption that Hader may be coming in in the 2nd inning if there's any trouble.

 

I agree that he's a huge help between a WC game or pitching 2-3 times/series but I'm not sure that I'm ready to weaken the 5 year outlook to go all in this year yet.

 

Not to go too far off-base, but you make an excellent point that having 3 or 4 shut-down arms in the pen that can go multiple innings is the best way to win an all-in playoff game. Going that route, you never waste an AB on the pitcher and a hitter never sees the same pitcher twice. We can line up starters to go 1-2 innings and have guys like Jeffress, Hader, Knebel hopefully go 1-2 each as well. I believe you get 2 days off between the wildcard play-in game and the actual start of the playoffs, so anyone who pitched should be ready for game 1...just have to make sure you save 2 starters for games 1 and 2.

 

And considering we at the beginning of the season we were far more likely to get into the playoffs via wildcard than win the division, putting more resources into the bullpen and position players than starting pitching makes a ton of sense.

[bill hAll Star]

Not to go too far off-base.

 

I don't think it's very far off-base in this discussion. Knowing what you said about our shutdown bullpen and its effect on a playoff game or series is important in whether or not we trade for someone like deGrom.