Syndergaard and deGrom

[JackNicholson1974]

I wouldnt trade Hader, the way bullpens are being used today, he may have as much value as Thor or deGrom. But I would empty the cupboards down on the farm. Phillips Burnes Peralta and Huira. If they wanted Ray instead of any of those guys Id slide him in there as well. Lutz. Basically pick any four guys.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

I honestly don't think we have enough for either one.

I agree. I think Hader has to be included for either and that's probably a no go. Even a non Hader trade is probably something like Hiura, 2 of Burnes, Ortiz, Peralta, Woodruff, and like Santana or Phillips and I don't know if that's enough, don't think there's enough top line talent there without Hader.

 

Syndergaard had a set back and isn't starting Sunday now too, fwiw.

[Never Outhustled]

The Brewers are sixth in MLB in pitching, and they should empty the farm for a pitcher? No thanks, not in an organization desperate for offense. The pitching has been top 10 in the majors since mid season 2016. The offense has been bad since mid season 2016. We need a bat, badly.

[trwi7]

The Brewers are sixth in MLB in pitching, and they should empty the farm for a pitcher? No thanks, not in an organization desperate for offense. The pitching has been top 10 in the majors since mid season 2016. The offense has been bad since mid season 2016. We need a bat, badly.

 

That is almost all on the backs of relievers. Our starters are middle of the pack in ERA with advanced stats putting them in the bottom 10 of pretty much everything. And now our bullpen is starting to give up runs because they typically have to cover at minimum 4 innings every night.

 

We have a ton of holes on this roster. Starting pitching is one of them.

[pacopete4]

Tons of holes? Naw...

[trwi7]

Tons of holes? Naw...

 

Starting pitching, catcher, 2nd base, shortstop. That's 4 out of 9 positions. If Braun and Santana don't start hitting, that's another hole. So yeah, I would say that's a ton of holes.

[Never Outhustled]

The Brewers are sixth in MLB in pitching, and they should empty the farm for a pitcher? No thanks, not in an organization desperate for offense. The pitching has been top 10 in the majors since mid season 2016. The offense has been bad since mid season 2016. We need a bat, badly.

 

That is almost all on the backs of relievers. Our starters are middle of the pack in ERA with advanced stats putting them in the bottom 10 of pretty much everything. And now our bullpen is starting to give up runs because they typically have to cover at minimum 4 innings every night.

 

We have a ton of holes on this roster. Starting pitching is one of them.

 

So you'd rather lose 2-1 than 3-1? The offense is bad. I don't care about the make-up of the pitching staff. I just care about its results.

[trwi7]

The Brewers are sixth in MLB in pitching, and they should empty the farm for a pitcher? No thanks, not in an organization desperate for offense. The pitching has been top 10 in the majors since mid season 2016. The offense has been bad since mid season 2016. We need a bat, badly.

 

That is almost all on the backs of relievers. Our starters are middle of the pack in ERA with advanced stats putting them in the bottom 10 of pretty much everything. And now our bullpen is starting to give up runs because they typically have to cover at minimum 4 innings every night.

 

We have a ton of holes on this roster. Starting pitching is one of them.

 

So you'd rather lose 2-1 than 3-1? The offense is bad. I don't care about the make-up of the pitching staff. I just care about its results.

 

What? I'm saying our starters aren't good. I don't want to trade for deGrom or Syndergaard, I don't think they're available and even if they are I don't think we have enough to get either one anyways.

 

I'm saying that our starting pitching is bad and they don't go deep into games and that's eventually (maybe starting now) going to have an effect on the effectiveness of the bullpen.

[Montezuma]

Just bought a Hader jersey, he is not going anywhere, not for Syndergaard or DeGrom

[paul253]

Count me in for one of the two. I actually don’t even care which. I think the Degrom/Syndergaard type pitcher is exactly what we’ve been missing the last few years. Yeah it would further empty out the system but given how the team is currently out together, with almost all of their key players under control for a few more years, it would buy us some time to start building up the system again. They just have to start hitting on their first round picks.

 

My offer would include: Ray, Burnes, Woodruff or Peralta, Phillips or Broxton, and Gatewood or Lara.

 

I’d really like to hang onto Hiura but if the Mets insist on him I’d reorganize my offer to something like Hiura, Ray, Phillips/Broxton, and Woodruff/Peralta.

[adambr2]

The problem with all of these farm system asset offers is that there are about 10 or 15 other teams that would also love either of these two who can blow us out of the water on a prospect offer.

 

You'd have to include major league talent, specifically Hader, to have a chance at winning the bidding.

 

Whether or not they'd insist on Hiura isn't even a question. He just wouldn't be nearly as good of a headliner as other teams could offer.

[pacopete4]

I agree with Adam. We don’t have a headliner (other than Hader) that gets us into the game. Brinson was our headliner and we used him for Yelich.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Just knowing the fact that teams would basically have to include a top ten prospect to think about acquiring either of these two means that the mets would be stupid to trade either one.

 

I just don't see either being moved, and it seems like this whole rumor got started by a New York paper making up a trade scenario between the two New York teams.

[jerichoholicninja]

Look at what it took to get JD Martinez last year. Save the top prospects and go get a rental bat for cheap.

[paul253]

Save the top prospects and go get a rental bat for cheap.

 

The problem is this team isn’t a cheap rental bat away from being a legitimate World Seties contender. I just shutter to think of going into the playoffs with Chacin as our best starting pitcher.

 

As far as the insistence Hader has to be included I don’t see it. Hader is not a young prospect anymore. He’s a very important piece to the current team. Why would the Mets expect us to give up possibly our most valuable pitcher when we are clearly in win now mode? We have plenty of good, major league or near major league prospects to offer. Whether or not they are good enough is the question.

[pacopete4]

Does this team win a WS with Syndergaard or deGroom? Not sure on that either.

[adambr2]

Save the top prospects and go get a rental bat for cheap.

 

The problem is this team isn’t a cheap rental bat away from being a legitimate World Seties contender. I just shutter to think of going into the playoffs with Chacin as our best starting pitcher.

 

As far as the insistence Hader has to be included I don’t see it. Hader is not a young prospect anymore. He’s a very important piece to the current team. Why would the Mets expect us to give up possibly our most valuable pitcher when we are clearly in win now mode? We have plenty of good, major league or near major league prospects to offer. Whether or not they are good enough is the question.

 

You're never one piece away. It's fools gold to ever think that one piece ever does anything more than increase your chances. So you have to weigh the cost benefit of everything you do. I do like the idea of getting a cheap rental bat that could significantly help our offense down the stretch. Depends on cost. I don't think there is probably a JD Martinez type value out there this year. Machado will cost way more.

 

Ideally, Nelson will be our best SP in the playoffs. If not, it doesn't mean we don't have a chance. Its tougher, but you can win the WS off the backs of a strong offense and elite pen.

 

As far as Hader not being a young prospect and a very important piece for us now, the Mets could not possibly care less about that. They will want to maximize their return if they ever trade Syndergaard or DeGrom, and the only way we could compete with teams that can offer top 5 of all MLB prospect headliners is to include Hader.

[trwi7]

I don't even think us putting in Hader pushes us past other teams. He's a great reliever but if the Mets are trading Syndergaard and/or deGrom, it means they're rebuilding and that's just about the last piece they're looking for as the headliner for the return.

[paul253]

You're never one piece away

 

I never said were one piece away. But the starting pitching is more a need than a “cheap rental bat”. I’m not sure what type of player or even what position is being considered for that type of acquisition but we’ll have to give up something to get that as well.

 

ideally, Nelson will be our best SP in the playoffs. If not, it doesn't mean we don't have a chance. Its tougher, but you can win the WS off the backs of a strong offense and elite pen

 

Neither Syndergaard nor Degrom would be half season rentals. So even if Nelson comes back to be our best pitcher, which is a huge if, we still have I believe three seasons with Degrom and four with Syndergaard to continue winning. I’d rather go into the playoffs with a legitimate #1 type pitcher who can pitch two or three times over a seven game series than to hope we outslug everyone else.

 

.As far as Hader not being a young prospect and a very important piece for us now, the Mets could not possibly care less about that. They will want to maximize their return if they ever trade Syndergaard or DeGrom, and the only way we could compete with teams that can offer top 5 of all MLB prospect headliners is to include Hader

 

You miss my point. I understand the Mets want to maximize their value. But common sense would dictate that teams trading with them for one of their aces are intent on winning now and would therefore not be interested in giving back players that are contributing significantly right now. It’s the same reason why the Mets wouldn’t expect to get Shaw or Yelich or Cain back in a trade.

 

Also, who is to say that teams with top five in all of baseball prospects are even interested in giving up those players? If the Mets offered up their guts right now I’d bet half the teams in Major League Baseball wouldn’t even be interested. So we’re not competing with teams who have top five prospects. We’re competing with teams who are interested. And yeah we may not have the ammo to get it done. But that doesn’t mean we’d trade someone like Hader instead. It doesn’t make any sense and I think the Mets know that.

[sveumrules]

The Brewers could offer up a headline duo of Hiura & Burnes. Who ranked 24 & 35 on the FanGraphs preseason list, both with a future value of 55, then fill out their package with a variety of interesting guys.

 

Of teams currently in contention you've got BOS, SF, ARI, SEA & CHI who probably can't beat our offer.

 

HOU, CLE, ATL, PHI, STL & WAS could all probably match or beat our offer but appear to have bigger needs than SP or also play in the NL East with NYM which sometimes complicates big deals.

 

That leaves NYY, LAD, LAA & COL as teams who prolly could match/beat our offer with a need for SP.

[brewmann04]

on MLB last night the talk was about the Yanks going after DeGroom

[Austin Tatious]

I’d pay up for Syndegaard, but Hader would be off the table.

[Roderick]

Off the major league team, I'd trade Davies, Suter, Santana, Arcia if the Mets gave them any value. I'd assume they would like a young guy like Williams.

 

Assuming they don't want any, I'd be okay letting them pick any four minor leaguers they wanted. Even if they wanted all of Burnes, Peralta, Woodruff.

[superfly]

Everyone in the Brewers organization is on the table except Josh Hader for me. As many as they want for Thor, he is a face of a franchise that would not only give us a top 5 pitcher in baseball but increase interest in the team nationwide ala Giannis/Bucks...which opens the possibilities of higher payrolls and revenues. It's a risk worth taking.

 

Arcia, Hiura, Peralta, Burnes, and whatever else they want. None of them have a ceiling of Syndergaard. Only thing that gives me hesitation on deGrom is he's almost 30.

[sveumrules]

I think I'd prefer deGrom to Thor myself.

 

Given Thor is younger, cheaper, has one more year of team control & has the higher upside he should likely command the higher return of the two.

 

The only things deGrom has the edge in are actual performance & health. But if he can be obtained for less since he costs more, has one less year of team control & is older then sign me up.

 

Mets could get a haul by cashing in when they're both healthy/dealing & take major steps toward rebuilding for the future, but they'll probably hold on to both of them just so they can finish 4th in the division.