Syndergaard and deGrom

[tmwiese55]

Really I don't see why the Mets would just give up with this pitching staff. Matz has also done well since coming back from injury. They should go into next year with top 4 of their starting rotation that you could argue is the best in the league, at least is in the discussion. Make some smart bullpen moves a la the Brewers, get Cespedes healthy. Maybe a new manager and see what happens. Probably would have to find a way to add one more good bat to go along with Cespedes back. I'm not saying they're all of a sudden a title favorite or anything but they're really not that far away. Even guys like Rosario, Nimmo, Conforto are solid MLB players.

[TURBO]

Since July 14th, Wheeler is 9-1... Seriously, check out his stats, not just his win loss record. He might be the best 2nd half pitcher in all of MLB.

[adambr2]

Don't know if better to start new thread or not, but thinking next year already -

 

Would Age 31-33 C.Anderson 3yrs/$24M (Mets need a starter back?), Hiura, Ray, Supak and Ashby be enough for two seasons of age 31-32 DeGrom at arby cost (guessing $24M?) plus hopefully a qualifying offer draft pick at the end?

 

Rotation: DeGrom, Chacin, Burnes. Davies as probable. Nelson, Woodruff, F.Peralta and Guerra as possibles. Wilkerson, Derby, Houser, Brown as backups.

 

No. Because if that's an acceptable offer for DeGrom, someone with better trade capital can and will beat that.

 

If the Mets would take that, why wouldn't the Astros swoop in and offer something centrered around Tucker and Alvarez?

[OldHeidelberg]

Really I don't see why the Mets would just give up with this pitching staff. Matz has also done well since coming back from injury. They should go into next year with top 4 of their starting rotation that you could argue is the best in the league, at least is in the discussion. Make some smart bullpen moves a la the Brewers, get Cespedes healthy. Maybe a new manager and see what happens. Probably would have to find a way to add one more good bat to go along with Cespedes back. I'm not saying they're all of a sudden a title favorite or anything but they're really not that far away. Even guys like Rosario, Nimmo, Conforto are solid MLB players.

 

But I think the Mets have some solid pitching prospects already and dealing from the depth of their major league rotation could go a long way to fixing other problems. They have said they wanted near major league or MLB players and if getting pitching prospects back isn't a priority the Brewers may be a good fit for them trade wise in the off season. Huge if but if Moose agreed to come back either with a new contract or his option a deal built around Shaw and Hiura could knock Syndergaard free as the Mets may be soured on him bit with the missed time the last couple of years. I just think the Brewers may be in a 2-3 year window where an ace may be required and the Mets are an obvious target for one this off season. It looks like they did well to not deal any of them at the deadline this year as both Thor and Wheeler have upped their value.

[sveumrules]

Mets could get a haul by cashing in when they're both healthy/dealing & take major steps toward rebuilding for the future, but they'll probably hold on to both of them just so they can finish 4th in the division.

 

I'll maintain my pre-trade deadline stance into the offseason.

 

Mets have had a good second half & have some interesting young pieces, but this year they've gotten 675 innings of 3.00 ERA work from deGrom, Thor, Wheeler & Matz and they're still in 4th place.

 

I'll take the under on that inning total & the over on that ERA mark for the same quartet next year if the Mets stand pat.

[Warning Track Power]

Mets could get a haul by cashing in when they're both healthy/dealing & take major steps toward rebuilding for the future, but they'll probably hold on to both of them just so they can finish 4th in the division.

 

I'll maintain my pre-trade deadline stance into the offseason.

 

Mets have had a good second half & have some interesting young pieces, but this year they've gotten 675 innings of 3.00 ERA work from deGrom, Thor, Wheeler & Matz and they're still in 4th place.

 

I'll take the under on that inning total & the over on that ERA mark for the same quartet next year if the Mets stand pat.

I liken the Mets to the 2001-2002 Bucks. Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson, Sam Cassell, Tim Thomas, Anthony Mason (yes I know)...all the talent in the world yet there is something that doesn't mesh there. Their chemistry is just...off. Maybe it's the hitting but a shakeup of some kind is needed.

[LouisEly]

Beat me to it. Moncada was a consensus top 3 prospect in baseball, and Kopech was a top 25 guy when they were traded. Hiura and Peralta don't compare.

Is it possible that Moncada was overrated by the ranking services because he signed for so much money? He played one full year in the minors split between two levels, so a somewhat small sample at each level. Just because he's young for his league doesn't mean he's going to get better.

 

I liken Moncada's half-season in AA in 2016 to Dubon's half-season in AA - in fact, not only were both on the same team, but both posted an almost identical OPS - .910 (Moncada, 207 PAs) to .909 (Dubon, 262 PAs). Dubon is 10 months older, but the point is they produced roughly the same over roughly the same PAs at roughly the same age. Looking deeper at Moncada's numbers that season, he hit 11 HRs but only 6 doubles - how often does a player hit twice as many HRs as doubles? Almost never. Seems unlikely to sustain.

[LouisEly]

The reason that DeGrom and Syndergaard cost so much to acquire is the reason the Mets are holding on to them - how often do you get that much pitching talent on one team? It rarely happens.

 

I think it's easier - and a heck of a lot cheaper - to plug the holes with position players and in the bullpen than starting pitching. Sure, there's a chance DeGrom might regress. But there's a chance that the Braves will regress, and the Nationals especially if they lose Harper and Strasburg gets hurt (again).

 

A healthy Cespedes plus a decent 1B (not hard or expensive to find those) and a decent 3B (Moustakas?) plus a couple of bullpen pieces and they have just as much of a shot as anyone in the NL East.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

 

A healthy Cespedes plus a decent 1B (not hard or expensive to find those) and a decent 3B (Moustakas?) plus a couple of bullpen pieces and they have just as much of a shot as anyone in the NL East.

They've been saying this the last 3 years. If the rotation stays healthy, if Cespedes stays healthy, if we do this or that. Since their owners are poors they don't have a real chance of adding anything and they'll just keep lying to themselves that everyone will stay healthy (when they haven't since 2015) and they "have a great shot."

[PlayerHader]

Mets could get a haul by cashing in when they're both healthy/dealing & take major steps toward rebuilding for the future, but they'll probably hold on to both of them just so they can finish 4th in the division.

 

I'll maintain my pre-trade deadline stance into the offseason.

 

Mets have had a good second half & have some interesting young pieces, but this year they've gotten 675 innings of 3.00 ERA work from deGrom, Thor, Wheeler & Matz and they're still in 4th place.

 

I'll take the under on that inning total & the over on that ERA mark for the same quartet next year if the Mets stand pat.

I liken the Mets to the 2001-2002 Bucks. Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson, Sam Cassell, Tim Thomas, Anthony Mason (yes I know)...all the talent in the world yet there is something that doesn't mesh there. Their chemistry is just...off. Maybe it's the hitting but a shakeup of some kind is needed.

 

Wait. Isn’t that the team that got screwed in the Eastern Conference Finals? The Mets are a dysfunctional World Series contender?

[anglotiger]

I'll maintain my pre-trade deadline stance into the offseason.

 

Mets have had a good second half & have some interesting young pieces, but this year they've gotten 675 innings of 3.00 ERA work from deGrom, Thor, Wheeler & Matz and they're still in 4th place.

 

I'll take the under on that inning total & the over on that ERA mark for the same quartet next year if the Mets stand pat.

I liken the Mets to the 2001-2002 Bucks. Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson, Sam Cassell, Tim Thomas, Anthony Mason (yes I know)...all the talent in the world yet there is something that doesn't mesh there. Their chemistry is just...off. Maybe it's the hitting but a shakeup of some kind is needed.

 

Wait. Isn’t that the team that got screwed in the Eastern Conference Finals? The Mets are a dysfunctional World Series contender?

 

You're thinking about the previous year - in 01-02, the Bucks went 41-41 and missed the playoffs.

[MrTPlush]

I think not trading for one of these guys will really come back to haunt us as a "what if" if we don't win it all. Just a guess.

 

Easy to say not to trade a big chunk of the farm for one of these guys until we get oh so close and miss out. Going up against some of the rotations we are to see from here on out a guy like one of the Mets aces would have been huge. Can you imagine one of these guys starting three games for us in this series?

 

I get that neither was assured to pitch great for us (could have been terrible), but it will at least make you wonder if we lose one of the next two series.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think not trading for one of these guys will really come back to haunt us as a "what if" if we don't win it all. Just a guess.

 

Easy to say not to trade a big chunk of the farm for one of these guys until we get oh so close and miss out. Going up against some of the rotations we are to see from here on out a guy like one of the Mets aces would have been huge. Can you imagine one of these guys starting three games for us in this series?

 

I get that neither was assured to pitch great for us (could have been terrible), but it will at least make you wonder if we lose one of the next two series.

 

I think it's an enormous leap to assume either was anywhere close to available.

[long ball]

I think not trading for one of these guys will really come back to haunt us as a "what if" if we don't win it all. Just a guess.

 

Easy to say not to trade a big chunk of the farm for one of these guys until we get oh so close and miss out. Going up against some of the rotations we are to see from here on out a guy like one of the Mets aces would have been huge. Can you imagine one of these guys starting three games for us in this series?

 

I get that neither was assured to pitch great for us (could have been terrible), but it will at least make you wonder if we lose one of the next two series.

 

I think it's an enormous leap to assume either was anywhere close to available.

 

Agreed. I think when it came down to it the Mets didn't want to trade any controllable players before getting their front office in place.

[adambr2]

I think not trading for one of these guys will really come back to haunt us as a "what if" if we don't win it all. Just a guess.

 

Easy to say not to trade a big chunk of the farm for one of these guys until we get oh so close and miss out. Going up against some of the rotations we are to see from here on out a guy like one of the Mets aces would have been huge. Can you imagine one of these guys starting three games for us in this series?

 

I get that neither was assured to pitch great for us (could have been terrible), but it will at least make you wonder if we lose one of the next two series.

 

It's also easy to say trade a big chunk of the farm when we have no idea how much it would have taken to pry one away from the Mets. If they were really available, why weren't they traded? Surely, even if we weren't willing to trade a big chunk of the farm for Jacob DeGrom, one of the other 28 teams certainly would have.

 

I'm guessing the Mets never really had an intention of dealing either and the only way they were even listening was if a stupidly good offer came in, like Hiura+Burnes+Hader+Peralta. And if, even IF the Mets took that offer, it would be fair to wonder if we're even in the position we are now.

 

I think we can definitely assume that if DeGrom or Syndergaard was available for a Yelich or Quintana type package, they wouldn't be Mets.

[pacopete4]

Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta have been huge for us in winning the division and the NLDS. They also set up the future. There’s no what if for me. It’s just pure excitement about where this groups heading.

[IntentionalHBP]

.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Can we get Syndergaard without giving up Hiura? Let’s get this done DS

[OldHeidelberg]

Can we get Syndergaard without giving up Hiura? Let’s get this done DS

 

I don't see anyway they give him up without getting an elite prospect. A midseason proposal from a Mets writer above was Hiura, Burnes, and Ray, probably still a competitive package since Burnes and Hiura's values have increased like Syndergaard's but I don't know why the Mets would even move him anymore. They can deal Wheeler and sign free agents to fix their issues.

[adambr2]

Can we get Syndergaard without giving up Hiura?

 

No.

[KeithStone53151]

Can we get Syndergaard without giving up Hiura?

 

No.

 

I generally disagree, especially considering i think burnes is more valuable than hiura. But realistically one of those 2 is probably a centerpiece.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Woodruff Ray and Stokes doesn’t get it done?

[nate82]

Woodard Ray and Stokes doesn’t get it done?

 

Close and it would depend on what the Mets think of Woodard and Ray. Probably need a third prospect like Brown if you are not including Hiura or Burnes.

[OldHeidelberg]

Can we get Syndergaard without giving up Hiura?

 

No.

 

I generally disagree, especially considering i think burnes is more valuable than hiura. But realistically one of those 2 is probably a centerpiece.

 

While I don't disagree with your value argument I don't think the Mets would accept a pitcher at the top of the deal when the whole reason they would be selling is because they are flush with major league starters and pitching prospects. As the second piece sure so maybe Woodruff/Peralta would fit there. But who knows, these deals usually end up being more quantity than just going down prospects #1-2-3 like us and writers propose, maybe we sign Moose or Donaldson and Shaw becomes a big piece in the deal.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Woodard Ray and Stokes doesn’t get it done?

 

Close and it would depend on what the Mets think of Woodard and Ray. Probably need a third prospect like Brown if you are not including Hiura or Burnes.

You had me going. Steve Woodard has not pitched for the Brewers since 1999. Do you think we could sign him for a 1 day contract to see if the Mets get fooled? I'd do Woodard, Ray and Stokes for Syndergaard in a heartbeat. Heck I'd even throw in Steve Braun and the money to cover the rest of his contract.