Deadline Plans: SS

[MrTPlush]

Let me be clear I’m not advocating Stearns go find help tomorrow. That isn’t realistic nor do I think we give up on Arcia yet. That being said Orlando Arcia now sports a .199 average and an OPS of .517 (both getting worse daily). At this point there are probably a handful of starters with better batting lines than Orlando Arcia. We also have Jonathan Villar who seems okay now, but that could quickly change by July. With the questionable middle infield we have and just awful depth it seems very likely some type of help could be brought in come July.

 

I personally think a Jerry Hairston Jr. (2011) type addition could be a really good idea. If Orlando Arcia is still absolutely worthless come July one must wonder if a complete replacement might be possible.

 

Anyone aware of any possible players that could be had in July(utility or even starters)?

 

(Unfortunately Yuniesky Betancourt is not available.)

[Jkromb]

Manny Machado..

[JohnBriggs12]

Manny Machado..

 

 

I'll toss another name out there: Manny Machado.

 

They do need Arcia to pick it up if they want to entice O's to accept him as a centerpiece of the deal.

[3and2Fastball]

I recently heard Counsell say in an interview that there are metrics that say that Arcia is the best defensive player in Major League Baseball. I don't think the Brewers view that position as a liability.

 

I think in reality the Brewers view Arcia the way the Cardinals viewed Molina in his younger days: " he's so good on defense that we don't even care if he hits".

[PeaveyFury]

It's worth noting that despite how poor he's been offensively, he's been good enough defensively that he has positive value above replacement level when factoring that in.

[MrTPlush]

It's worth noting that despite how poor he's been offensively, he's been good enough defensively that he has positive value above replacement level when factoring that in.

 

Even if you take the more generous WAR calculator (bWAR) he projects out to be about 1.5 over the entire year. fWAR has him negative right now. At this point I’d say any gain on defense is erased by his offense. Having that dismal of offense right next to the pitcher is brutal. At this point he is almost an automatic out and even when he does reach it’s a fairly worthless single.

 

Once again never said they are trying to replace Orlando Arcia. I find it much more likely a utility type player is brought in who can provide more offense if we want it on any given day.

 

If we try to improve our division-worst offense I see it coming in the form of that utility guy or a back-up. Not to stray off topic, but Villar has been good enough so far and Pina/Arcia provide stellar defense I doubt they would ditch on a every day basis unless they find a really good player to get.

[3and2Fastball]

I'm fairly sure the Brewers and other front offices have proprietary analytics programs that rate Arcia's defense higher than traditional WAR & fWAR etc than fans have access to. The Royals won the World Series with Alcides Escobar at Shortstop.

 

You guys can believe anything you want to, of course, but I really doubt the Brewers see

Shortstop as a position they need to upgrade. And they sure as heck aren't about to trade one of the best defensive players in the game for a rental at the deadline.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't think they care how he hits. I'm sure the mentality is, if the rest of the guys we are actually paying to hit, start to hit, he is even more of a non-issue than he is now.

 

Manny Machado sounds great, but you are giving up a lot to get him, and it may ultimately not be necessary.

[JosephC]

In the short term, if Arcia continues to struggle at this extent, I wouldn't mind seeing Saladino getting more at-bats to see if his bat stays hot. I have little doubt that when his career ends, people will look back and view Saladino as a sub-par MLB hitter. But even sub-par bats have been known to go on a hot streak for a month or two. See Sogard last year.

[MrTPlush]

The Royals won the World Series with Alcides Escobar at Shortstop.

 

You guys can believe anything you want to, of course, but I really doubt the Brewers see

Shortstop as a position they need to upgrade.

 

Okay? Is the answer to a World Series win a SS who hits like a pitcher, but plays good defense? I don’t remember saying if we don’t get some SS help we can’t win the WS.

 

Unless someone talks to Stearns on a daily basis (HH19 no longer here) this entire forum is based on educated guesses and starting conversations about multiple possibilities.

[3and2Fastball]

Yes. But let's make our guesses as educated as possible. Counsell said there are metrics that say Arcia is the best defensive player in the game today. Not just the best defensive Shortstop, the best defensive player. He wasn't prompted to say that.

[PeaveyFury]

But even sub-par bats have been known to go on a hot streak for a month or two. See Sogard last year.

 

Then aren't we just better off playing the superior defensive player, Arcia, waiting for his sub-par bat to have a hot streak?

 

Even if Saladino reverts to his pre-2017 form as noted in another thread, he projects to have similar overall value to Arcia if you assume no offensive improvement out of Arcia's bat. I'd rather bank on some kind of improvement there, as he'd end up having the better overall season.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

Might not be popular, but I'd kick the tires on Jurickson Profar.

- Has talent (former top prospect of the Texas Rangers and all of baseball)

- Still young and controllable at 25.

- Should be fairly cheap should the Rangers start their speculated fire sale.

- Versatile

- Could benefit from a change of scenery

[brewmann04]

DS will be looking hard at adding to this club should be interesting.

[MrTPlush]

Yes. But let's make our guesses as educated as possible. Counsell said there are metrics that say Arcia is the best defensive player in the game today. Not just the best defensive Shortstop, the best defensive player. He wasn't prompted to say that.

 

I’d say adding at a position that features one of our three worst players and one of the worst offensive bats in all of baseball is an educated guess as a possibility.

[reillymcshane]

I don't doubt the Brewers keep tabs on shortstops who are on the market, but I think they will give Arcia a very long leash due to the fact that he has a good glove, and his hitting last year was much better (meaning they feel he can do better than he currently is). And unless they see a really big upgrade available (such as Machado), they will wait and see how Arcia progresses.

 

Also, there are other potential areas to upgrade (2B, C, maybe starting pitching) that the club might rather spend their resources on rather than SS.

 

I'm not saying they won't make a move for SS, but unless Arcia really craters - or someone really good is made available at a reasonable price - I don't foresee SS being an area we address this year.

[superfly]

Might not be popular, but I'd kick the tires on Jurickson Profar.

- Has talent (former top prospect of the Texas Rangers and all of baseball)

- Still young and controllable at 25.

- Should be fairly cheap should the Rangers start their speculated fire sale.

- Versatile

- Could benefit from a change of scenery

 

We've been linked to him so many times over the years that this makes too much sense. Wonder if there's any kind of deal we could do to get Hamels and Profar together....

[Mr Southpaw]

Might not be popular, but I'd kick the tires on Jurickson Profar.

- Has talent (former top prospect of the Texas Rangers and all of baseball)

- Still young and controllable at 25.

- Should be fairly cheap should the Rangers start their speculated fire sale.

- Versatile

- Could benefit from a change of scenery

 

Ding, ding, ding, ding....we have a winner!

[DHonks]

I swouldnt do a thing at SS. I’d play him 4-5 times a week with getting some breaks for a backup while he works on things. Once he starts coming around, I would play him 6-7 days a week

[JosephC]

I wouldn't be opposed to trading for Profar as a candidate for second base, but there's no way would I trade for him with the intent to play him at shortstop. He's at -8 DRS which is a horrible number for only having played 308 innings and also at -11.9 UZR/150. It would be different if he were a .900 OPS guy, but he only has a .313 OBP and .723 OPS. The defensive downgrade from Arcia to Profar would be so dramatic it could very well exceed any offensive gain. If Arcia rebounds to a still very mediocre .650 OPS by season's end, I'm guessing he'd be a much better contributor than Profar when factoring in the defense.

[clancyphile]

I wouldn't be opposed to trading for Profar as a candidate for second base, but there's no way would I trade for him with the intent to play him at shortstop. He's at -8 DRS which is a horrible number for only having played 308 innings and also at -11.9 UZR/150. It would be different if he were a .900 OPS guy, but he only has a .313 OBP and .723 OPS. The defensive downgrade from Arcia to Profar would be so dramatic it could very well exceed any offensive gain. If Arcia rebounds to a still very mediocre .650 OPS by season's end, I'm guessing he'd be a much better contributor than Profar when factoring in the defense.

 

I'd like to make Adames from Tampa Bay happen.

 

Same age (roughly), but better OBP skills than Arcia.

 

Maybe Arcia/Bickford to the Rays for Adames.

[MadThinker88]

I'd like to make Adames from Tampa Bay happen.

 

Same age (roughly), but better OBP skills than Arcia.

 

Maybe Arcia/Bickford to the Rays for Adames.

 

I'm sure you would want Adames over Arcia. Why is Tampa reducing its controlled timeframe on those players and spending more now?

Explain to me why Tampa would want to make the deal, even if it was their choice of Burnes or Woodruff instead of Bickford in the deal.

 

I highly doubt Tampa would take Arcia & Burnes for Adames alone..

[JosephC]

So far this season Arcia is a 0.3 WAR player according to Baseball Reference and a -0.2 WAR player according to Fangraphs. Take the average and then extrapolate it over a full season and he is projected as a 0.4 WAR player for this season. The average between the two sites for the 2017 season is 1.9 WAR. The majority of the league probably only views him as about a 1.0 WAR player at this point in time. Simply put, the player just has not shown enough from an offensive standpoint to merit any significant trade value.

[Dadbauer]

Why does anyone continue to put Bickford's name in these trades as anything other than a throw in? He has no value. His velocity has dropped like 10 miles per hour and he cannot stay on the field.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Why does anyone continue to put Bickford's name in these trades as anything other than a throw in? He has no value. His velocity has dropped like 10 miles per hour and he cannot stay on the field.

 

Clancy hates Arcia and Bickford. He gets hung up on players he both loves and hates. Hence that Adames love as well.