Milwaukee Bucks 2018 - 2019

[superfly]

That is as much a function of turning 40 as it is the 20 lbs you've gained, particularly the energy and stamina. For me it was ~38. I'm about 10-15 lbs lighter than when I was 38, and my energy and stamina are definitely lower than when I was 38. There's a reason even the most elite athletes retire in their late 30's. The body just can't do what it used to, particularly recovery and energy.

 

Sure, that's part of it. Wasn't really making a point about age though. Just pointing out that it's hard to tell when a person with a very slender frame has added too much body fat. People keep saying Khris doesn't look like he's gotten fat at all, and people say the same thing about me, but it's plainly visible if you know what to look for. I've noticed some of the most athletic people can tell right away, whereas weekend warriors and regular people can't. Maybe the fact that this is more of a baseball forum explains why people have trouble discerning the difference, because Khris's body fat and conditioning would hardly make a difference in baseball.

 

Age, excess weight, and conditioning are all factors. Khris is very sluggish and lethargic compared to before his current contract. He's lost a lot of agility. He often gets some of it back towards the end of the season (last year's playoffs for example, or his run at the end of 2016). Combine that with the thin layer of excess fat he's carrying and it paints a clear picture of someone who uses the regular season to get in shape, as opposed to being ready to go at the start of training camp.

 

As for "never hearing anything about", when did anyone ever hear about it with Redd, Bogut, or Jabari? Teams, players, and coaches never talk about this until after the fact. It's frankly embarrassing. Plenty of fans noticed it, but you still never heard about it from anyone but them.

 

 

I hate to open your eyes, but what team in the NBA worth its salt goes all out every night? They don't play ball until February or March. Only rare exceptions for players do that.

[DuWayne Steurer]

That is as much a function of turning 40 as it is the 20 lbs you've gained, particularly the energy and stamina. For me it was ~38. I'm about 10-15 lbs lighter than when I was 38, and my energy and stamina are definitely lower than when I was 38. There's a reason even the most elite athletes retire in their late 30's. The body just can't do what it used to, particularly recovery and energy.

 

Sure, that's part of it. Wasn't really making a point about age though. Just pointing out that it's hard to tell when a person with a very slender frame has added too much body fat. People keep saying Khris doesn't look like he's gotten fat at all, and people say the same thing about me, but it's plainly visible if you know what to look for. I've noticed some of the most athletic people can tell right away, whereas weekend warriors and regular people can't. Maybe the fact that this is more of a baseball forum explains why people have trouble discerning the difference, because Khris's body fat and conditioning would hardly make a difference in baseball.

 

Age, excess weight, and conditioning are all factors. Khris is very sluggish and lethargic compared to before his current contract. He's lost a lot of agility. He often gets some of it back towards the end of the season (last year's playoffs for example, or his run at the end of 2016). Combine that with the thin layer of excess fat he's carrying and it paints a clear picture of someone who uses the regular season to get in shape, as opposed to being ready to go at the start of training camp.

 

As for "never hearing anything about", when did anyone ever hear about it with Redd, Bogut, or Jabari? Teams, players, and coaches never talk about this until after the fact. It's frankly embarrassing. Plenty of fans noticed it, but you still never heard about it from anyone but them.

 

 

I hate to open your eyes, but what team in the NBA worth its salt goes all out every night? They don't play ball until February or March. Only rare exceptions for players do that.

 

 

The Warriors are probably playing at 75% of max effort until the playoffs.

[Jenkins5]

Giannis is on the verge of being the NBAs biggest star. You just watch this weekend & the game. His personality, game, and everything. Kid is just a star. Like Wade or Curry, he is hard player to dislike. Plays game right, works hard, & have great personalities that fans love. Then add the generational talent. Just have to hope he doesn’t blow it like Lebron with the “Decision” Durant going to Warriors. Even AD has soured fans on him now.

 

Big question is will he be able to stay strong & really build a long term contender here or follow the footsteps of many other stars. Is he a Dirk & DWade (even though he later left before coming back)? He says it is important to him. Time will tell

[coolhandluke121]

If you can't see how much body fat he's added and how tired he gets when he plays, I can't make you see it. Guys do bulk up in their 20's, but not at the expense of tone.

 

I think there's some confirmation bias at work here. Just playing the number of minutes he plays in games would get him in decent shape not to mention practice time.

 

Why would I have a bias to confirm in the first place? Why would I just invent this bias against him and not against tons of other players? I had to match my interpretation to what I saw and not the other way around. I have nothing against him and I defended his skills vociferously on realgm for years. I compare him to Pierce when everyone calls him a poor man's Klay, but he's not going to be nearly as good as either one of them if he doesn't shed the extra pounds. And what's the point of saying he's in good shape from playing games? Compared to us, yes, but it's all relative. Every starter plays lots of minutes. By NBA swingman standards, he's on the extreme low end for energy and stamina and it's in large part because he's carrying around useless bad weight on a frame not built to carry it.

 

Anyone here who's denying this, do you know any recent stories about guys who got a little too fat and then lost the weight and finally talked about it openly? Did you know they were fat before they admitted it? Have you looked at some before and after pictures to see if you could tell the difference? Because I could tell every single time, and often got sucked into arguments like this over it with people who clearly just can't discern the subtle but critical difference.

[tmwiese55]

Victor Oladipo is prime example. Who would've said he was overweight previously? Sheds like 15 LBS and he's a whole different player.

[homer]

If you can't see how much body fat he's added and how tired he gets when he plays, I can't make you see it. Guys do bulk up in their 20's, but not at the expense of tone.

 

I think there's some confirmation bias at work here. Just playing the number of minutes he plays in games would get him in decent shape not to mention practice time.

 

Why would I have a bias to confirm in the first place? Why would I just invent this bias against him and not against tons of other players? I had to match my interpretation to what I saw and not the other way around. I have nothing against him and I defended his skills vociferously on realgm for years. I compare him to Pierce when everyone calls him a poor man's Klay, but he's not going to be nearly as good as either one of them if he doesn't shed the extra pounds. And what's the point of saying he's in good shape from playing games? Compared to us, yes, but it's all relative. Every starter plays lots of minutes. By NBA swingman standards, he's on the extreme low end for energy and stamina and it's in large part because he's carrying around useless bad weight on a frame not built to carry it.

 

Anyone here who's denying this, do you know any recent stories about guys who got a little too fat and then lost the weight and finally talked about it openly? Did you know they were fat before they admitted it? Have you looked at some before and after pictures to see if you could tell the difference? Because I could tell every single time, and often got sucked into arguments like this over it with people who clearly just can't discern the subtle but critical difference.

 

 

You see him under-performing and are looking for a reason. Your reason is that he's out of shape so you are looking at his body differently and when he is slow to a spot you presume it's because he's out of shape and not because he's just a step slower than the other guy. That's confirmation bias.

 

I read this article and I don't see anything that leads me to believe he is overweight. It even mentions he thought he had to train more this summer because he felt his legs got tired during last year's Boston series:

 

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26041744/khris-middleton-rare-kind-second-star

 

If anything, he gets "lazy" on defense. I put that in quotes because I think it's more he stands and watches rather than he doesn't care. Hence the benching in December when he didn't hustle after some loose balls.

 

having said all that, I am not saying sign him to a max deal.

[wallus]

For all of those that think the Bucks give up way too many three point attempts, here is an article to read: https://cleaningtheglass.com/bucking-the-trend/

[homer]

For all of those that think the Bucks give up way too many three point attempts, here is an article to read: https://cleaningtheglass.com/bucking-the-trend/

 

It's behind a pay wall. The gist of it is this::

 

Despite giving up a ton of threes, they allow far and away the most non corner threes to below average shooters.

 

So basically they are letting bad shooters shoot threes and are closing out on the good shooters while simultaneously not letting anyone get to the rim, not fouling, and not letting opposing teams get offensive boards. The league is shooting more threes - but not everyone shooting threes is a good three point shooter. The Bucks are basically saying "OK, we will let the brick layers shoot away but we will get every rebound and we won't let you get to the rim".

[superfly]

Great game tonight. Playoff basketball is in the air.

[trwi7]

Great game tonight. Playoff basketball is in the air.

 

It's not April yet.

[homer]

Bucks equaled their win total from last year tonight.

[tigerbrew]

44-14, 30 games over .500. What a season so far.

[long ball]

Good news is the Bucks probably won't play that poorly very often going forward. Bad news is neither will the Celtics.

[stoutdude04]

As someone who is not a huge basketball fan(but I have gotten into the Bucks lately), I was surprised to see the jump ball at the end lead to a turnover. I would have assumed that possession starts when the first guy touches it after the two guys jumping. In that case, Giannis should have let the ball come down and hope Smart touched it or something. It would have taken up a little bit more time at least.

[tmwiese55]

As someone who is not a huge basketball fan(but I have gotten into the Bucks lately), I was surprised to see the jump ball at the end lead to a turnover. I would have assumed that possession starts when the first guy touches it after the two guys jumping. In that case, Giannis should have let the ball come down and hope Smart touched it or something. It would have taken up a little bit more time at least.

 

Watching it live, I thought best to tip at the hoop or just hit it high in the air to kill time as I assumed shot clock started as soon the ball got tipped. So I didn't see the controversy.

 

Turns out we're both wrong as it was clarified today that the refs botched it. Shot clock doesn't start until a team would've gotten possession in this case no one got possession so it should've all stood and played on, game over basically right there. They apparently tried to rule that Lopez had possession and it started then as to why they ruled it off, no way he had possession though. Even if they did botch that aspect, they still only took .2 off the clock when they should've took the time from initial tip plus .2 after Lopez's 'possession'. so it should've been at least like .6 off the clock.

[lcbj68c]

For all of those that think the Bucks give up way too many three point attempts, here is an article to read: https://cleaningtheglass.com/bucking-the-trend/

 

It's not that they give up too many attempts...it's that they give up way too many "uncontested" attempts in my opinion. Either get in their hip pocket 2 feet beyond the arc or just stand around in the paint. Tired of watching them run out after a guy two seconds after the ball's left their hand as I hear nothing but net.

[lcbj68c]

As someone who is not a huge basketball fan(but I have gotten into the Bucks lately), I was surprised to see the jump ball at the end lead to a turnover. I would have assumed that possession starts when the first guy touches it after the two guys jumping. In that case, Giannis should have let the ball come down and hope Smart touched it or something. It would have taken up a little bit more time at least.

 

I thought it was pretty cut and dry. I thought the standard was you needed .3 to touch and shoot? Given that it was .2, the only potential thing that would have not resulted in a shot clock violation was the jump ball going directly to the rim? Smart "touching" it wouldn't have stopped the shot clock violation or stopped the clock with any less time. Smart had to "possess it" and even then, couldn't possess it quick enough in .2 to do anything about letting more time run off the clock.

[brwrsfan]

Not a very good sequence at the end for the Bucks - gave up an easy layup with 27 seconds left then had a pretty awful last possession that lead to the jump ball. Did play pretty good defense on the last play though.

 

I think this is a good game for the Bucks. This group (this year at least) hasn't really had many close games and it feels like the ones that have been close, they've lost (Clippers, Knicks, Suns come to mind). After the first round of the playoffs, they aren't likely to get many blowouts or score as much as the defense gets better. Winning grinders and learning to close out close games down the stretch against good teams is something they could use a bit more experience with IMO.

 

Overall though, really nice win to start the last stretch of the season here. They have some tough road games coming up, so hopefully they can continue to get wins. Be nice if Toronto could start losing a few more games. Unlike the Bucks, they've been in a lot of tight games of late and have come out ahead in almost all of them. Hopefully that starts to swing the other way.

[OldHeidelberg]

I think maybe the refs ruled that it was a catch and shoot by Lopez and he couldn't do that in .2, I don't know that I agree. The interesting thing to me was Boston not fouling to extend the game, a long 3 pointer that gets to the rim at the end of the shot clock would have ended it. Tough to execute that perfectly and the bucks didn't but even then the Celtics had to throw up a quick tough shot. To me you foul with 20 seconds left, hope the Bucks miss a FT and get the last shot with plenty of time.

[brwrsfan]

I think maybe the refs ruled that it was a catch and shoot by Lopez and he couldn't do that in .2, I don't know that I agree. The interesting thing to me was Boston not fouling to extend the game, a long 3 pointer that gets to the rim at the end of the shot clock would have ended it. Tough to execute that perfectly and the bucks didn't but even then the Celtics had to throw up a quick tough shot. To me you foul with 20 seconds left, hope the Bucks miss a FT and get the last shot with plenty of time.

 

Yeah, it was definitely very close. You have to assume that in most situations, the Bucks are going to wind it down and at least get a shot off - if they had taken it at one, travels to the rim, then grab a rebound, you're probably left with 2 seconds left at most. While that's plenty of time to get a shot given the timeout advance rule, it's certainly dicey. Not to mention - the Bucks could have made it, the Bucks could get the rebound or the ball gets batted around and takes up even more time. I agree I think I would have really pressured the ball and if I got a foul, so be it. But it worked out perfectly for them, glad they missed the shot to win it.

[stoutdude04]

As someone who is not a huge basketball fan(but I have gotten into the Bucks lately), I was surprised to see the jump ball at the end lead to a turnover. I would have assumed that possession starts when the first guy touches it after the two guys jumping. In that case, Giannis should have let the ball come down and hope Smart touched it or something. It would have taken up a little bit more time at least.

 

I thought it was pretty cut and dry. I thought the standard was you needed .3 to touch and shoot? Given that it was .2, the only potential thing that would have not resulted in a shot clock violation was the jump ball going directly to the rim? Smart "touching" it wouldn't have stopped the shot clock violation or stopped the clock with any less time. Smart had to "possess it" and even then, couldn't possess it quick enough in .2 to do anything about letting more time run off the clock.

 

I don't think I explained myself well. I didn't think the shot clock should have started when Giannis tipped it. Then I thought Lopez's tip would have been done under .2. Thus it shouldn't have been a violation, so then I was trying to drum up ideas that they could have done to burn more time.

 

In fact, I would have whipped the ball as high into the air as I could with about 1 second on the clock. That would have killed enough time, right? Hard to say in looking back, but yea, I thought the Lopez tip should have been a play on.

[homer]

For all of those that think the Bucks give up way too many three point attempts, here is an article to read: https://cleaningtheglass.com/bucking-the-trend/

 

It's not that they give up too many attempts...it's that they give up way too many "uncontested" attempts in my opinion. Either get in their hip pocket 2 feet beyond the arc or just stand around in the paint. Tired of watching them run out after a guy two seconds after the ball's left their hand as I hear nothing but net.

 

The article mentions contesting every three....

 

The reason they don't is because then that opens up the middle for shots in the paint plus it wears out your defense. They are trying to be strategic about who they cover out beyond the arc. Teams like Boston are a bad matchup because they have a lot of good three point shooters and they shoot a lot of them.

[tmwiese55]

As someone who is not a huge basketball fan(but I have gotten into the Bucks lately), I was surprised to see the jump ball at the end lead to a turnover. I would have assumed that possession starts when the first guy touches it after the two guys jumping. In that case, Giannis should have let the ball come down and hope Smart touched it or something. It would have taken up a little bit more time at least.

 

I thought it was pretty cut and dry. I thought the standard was you needed .3 to touch and shoot? Given that it was .2, the only potential thing that would have not resulted in a shot clock violation was the jump ball going directly to the rim? Smart "touching" it wouldn't have stopped the shot clock violation or stopped the clock with any less time. Smart had to "possess it" and even then, couldn't possess it quick enough in .2 to do anything about letting more time run off the clock.

 

I don't think I explained myself well. I didn't think the shot clock should have started when Giannis tipped it. Then I thought Lopez's tip would have been done under .2. Thus it shouldn't have been a violation, so then I was trying to drum up ideas that they could have done to burn more time.

 

In fact, I would have whipped the ball as high into the air as I could with about 1 second on the clock. That would have killed enough time, right? Hard to say in looking back, but yea, I thought the Lopez tip should have been a play on.

 

Yea i posted the explanation a few posts ago. You're exactly right, by rule that should've played on. Refs botched it. I'm surprised by the rule myself, but apparently it shouldn't start until possession. Therefore, since Lopez never had possession and it was a tip it should've counted. Looked to me like that was the plan by the Bucks, they knew the rules and the refs didn't.

[FVBrewerFan]

Refs got it right. Look closely, and Lopez didn't exactly tip it. It rested just a bit on his hand. One of those you could call either way and be right, depending on your definition of "tip."

[RollieTime]

Refs got it right. Look closely, and Lopez didn't exactly tip it. It rested just a bit on his hand. One of those you could call either way and be right, depending on your definition of "tip."

 

It looked like a tip to me. It was on and off his hand so quick, I don’t see how it could be a shot clock violation in any way. Giannis and Lopez tipped the ball pretty much identically. From when the ball first touches Lopez’s hand to when it is just off of his hand, there’s no way he maintained contact with the ball long enough for the violation.