Milwaukee Bucks 2018 - 2019

[tmwiese55]

Basically Brogdon is their only controllable asset they could trade. As said, picks are too far out and years of missed picks in a row kills them. Snell's contract makes him just a guy. So yea, not much room for improvement

[HiAndTight]

 

 

Yea, Shaq and a couple others have said that in the past too. I see it both ways, I know what he's trying to say. He usually takes three 3-pointers a game on avg, which is about right for him. They're always "good shot." I do think at some point he will get to that 35% range, as his shot looks fine. You can just tell he's still thinking too much, just needs more confidence.

 

What he DOES need to eliminate is that fade-away jumper. He has largely gone way form it, to be fair.

 

 

I can understand if they were to suggest that he doesn't NEED the 3 point shot to be successful, but he literally said, "don't worry about them shots, don't even practice 'em, just keep doing what you're doing." That's....just crazy to me.

 

 

I also agree that he seems to take 3's begrudgingly. I think if he got himself into a better rhythm, a catch and shoot, or off the dribble, that he'd be more successful. But he seems to measure it up, take a last look around, make sure there's no other play, THEN shoot it.

 

I'm also talking about like 2-3-4 years down the road him shooting a 35 pct clip. I do think if he gains more confidence in his shot, he could see a jump quickly as he does have a good stroke as you said.

 

As for those fadeaway's...if he's posting up, that's one thing, but he's not Jordan. I can't stand seeing him shooting 15 foot fadeaway's either. The worst part of his game.

 

All that said, in every game, there are so many plays that get missed that he makes that are just so huge. Another yesterday, he was playing D and his guy(I thought it was Kawai) was cutting. Giannis reached back, got his hand in the passing lane, knocked it out to whoever was on the wing, they got out and ran scored...because he was playing hustle D.

 

 

Just the most entertaining guy in the game right now IMO.

[HiAndTight]

What would it take to get Kemba Walker and Frank the Tank out of NC? Frank is sitting on the bench ala Thon Maker. Just a thought.

 

They don't have anything to trade. They don't have anything to trade. They don't have anything to trade.

 

They cannot trade a first round pick until 2024.

 

DDV can't shoot. DJ Wilson is playing 10 minutes per game, and while better, still isn't that good. Thon is actually 26 years old (and the entire league knows this) and can't catch a basketball. 4 of their 5 starters are on expiring contracts.

 

They aren't getting AD or Kemba.

4 years of complete mismanagement of the team has come back to bite them.

 

They've got the best record in the NBA and I'm enjoying the ride... but man am I scared for this off season.

 

 

SMH...this old refrain again.

 

They have Brogdon to trade. They have Brogdon to trade. They have Brogdon to trade. They also have a large expiring contract to trade.

 

Certainly not suggesting either are enough for AD, but c'mon.

 

Also, everyone knows he's 26? Is this like everyone knows Pujols is 4 years older based on anecdotal evidence and reddit forums?

[HiAndTight]

The logic on that from Shaq should be that by spending his time hanging around the perimeter it would take away from what makes him great, attacking and finishing at the rim. Yes, of course if could do everything that would be great but for such a poor shooter it seams unlikely. So, keep perfecting what you're doing down there. Add more finishes for when the dunk is cut off, runners, floaters, hooks, banks, short jumper for if the clock is winding down, whatever. but most importantly it keeps the emphasis on attacking the rim rather than dribbling around the perimeter, which is what every team wants him to do.

 

For playoff Thon, that's just a small sample fluke. Guy plays hard and gives all effort, I respect that and root for him. But I'm fairly confident he's terrible and won't be in the league 3 years from now. Put him on KD for more than a couple mins and he'll get ate up, he'll fall for every pump fake, foul a ton. he has no hand eye coordination, dexterity/coordination, and can't catch the ball.

 

 

No, that was not the logic of Shaq. You don't need to interpret what Shaq said because he was pretty blunt about it. He said that he's so good attacking the rim, he shouldn't even bother improving his shooting because he doesn't need it. Which Charles said was stupid and Kenny more diplomatically said, "yeah, but when he develops into a better shooter, he's going to be impossible go guard." There was no mention of him dribble around the perimeter...though he does that now before he attacks, nor was there any discussion of him hanging out on the perimeter...though again, that's where he has the ball before he attacks. So he's doing both of those things anyway(though neither were part of Shaq's argument).

 

They sag off him making it that much tougher for him to get to the hole. If he can become a threat as a shooter, he becomes that much more difficult to guard. So finding logic in what Shaq said is....difficult as the rest of the panel agreed.

 

The greatest player of all time had to imrpove his shooting to continue to evolve. Jordan wasn't a great shooter. Again, neither was Kidd nor Nash IIRC early on.

 

He has the stroke, he has all the room in the world. He lacks the confidence. If he starts hitting them more like he did last night or the previous game when I believe he was 3-5, and he gets guys running at him, he's going to get that much better.

 

 

As for Thon.....not buying it's a fluke. He's an extremely talented basketball player. I don't know what the issue is, but the last two years he was one of our catalysts for us in the post-season. He's an agile 7 footer who can hit the 3. And my point was to be continually putting fresh, long, athletic people on KD to make it more difficult for him. But I guess he's just a bumbling fool who was lucky to be one of our best players two years in a row in the post-season. I STRONGLY suspect you would have had a worse opinion of Wilson entering this season. Though I could be wrong. Maker needs regular playing time. As it doesn't look like that'll be on the Bucks, I'm fairly confident he'll have success moving forward and I'll take the bet that he's out of the league in 3 years.

[tmwiese55]

I should've phrased differently. I didn't mean to comment directly on Shaq as I don't care what he thinks, he's basically an idiot and thinks Jason Kidd is a good coach. I was commenting on the overall logic of not worrying about the 3 ball and focusing on strengths and kind of working inside out. I wrote it putting words in his mouth of what he should be saying to make such a point rather than his dumb, 'you just don't need it' point. Basically, every team wants him out there shooting low efficient shots than rampaging the lane for himself and creating wide open shots for his teammates. If he floats around out there his guy will sag off and you can't run a real offense so he needs to just keep attacking. Of course he should keep working on shooting, but just getting better and better in the lane should happen too and it's way easier to do for him.

 

You're a touch off saying his form is good, his hands/release are fine which is why he's an ok FT shooter. But everything from there down is broke and needs to be re-done. It's all herky jerky and like a catapult. He has a long way to go to get a good shot.

 

I don't know what to say if you think Thon is good and value 6ish good games over 200 games. It's just small sample that you're overvaluing because 'playoffs'. The guy plays super hard, no one can knock the guys energy and hustle. A guy like that can have spurts here and there just catching people off guard, which he does. But that's pretty much it and his ceiling, backup hustle big. His hands are small and terrible so he can't catch, he has no coordination/dexterity so he's super stiff out there. he's rail thin and can't bang down low. He's tall, tries hard, and can hit an open 3 when left completely uncovered and has all day. That's it. Consistent PT, he played all last year and rated out as one of the 5ish worst players in the whole league. I probably should alter 3 years a bit though as I forgot he's signed for next already. Someone else will give a shot after that and then he'll be done in the NBA. So might make 3 but no way more than 5.

 

Yea I'm sure you were saying Wilson would be good back in October. I wouldn't say I hated on him compared to most, I remember at the draft when everyone bashed and I just said who the heck knows, picks that late are flyers anyway. But yea get to Oct/nov this year and the guy still wasn't even being allowed to play and how could anyone think he'd be doing this? I wasn't screaming anywhere that he sucked but I never thought he'd be doing this now. Basically no non injured 1st rd pick has played less mins than him so we saw literally nothing positive of him. Then you remember he's 23 already and it didn't look good. Turns out these coaches are good and got to him. Same good coaches seem to think Thon is a lost cause.

[homer]

Wilson is averaging almost 18 minutes a game and is arguably the 7th man.

[Mr Southpaw]

What would it take to get Kemba Walker and Frank the Tank out of NC? Frank is sitting on the bench ala Thon Maker. Just a thought.

 

They don't have anything to trade. They don't have anything to trade. They don't have anything to trade.

 

They cannot trade a first round pick until 2024.

 

DDV can't shoot. DJ Wilson is playing 10 minutes per game, and while better, still isn't that good. Thon is actually 26 years old (and the entire league knows this) and can't catch a basketball. 4 of their 5 starters are on expiring contracts.

 

They aren't getting AD or Kemba.

 

4 years of complete mismanagement of the team has come back to bite them.

 

They've got the best record in the NBA and I'm enjoying the ride... but man am I scared for this off season.

 

What is all the anger for? Geez, I just asked a question. If Kemba is out what about Thon for Frank? Seems pretty straight up.

[HiAndTight]

I should've phrased differently. I didn't mean to comment directly on Shaq as I don't care what he thinks, he's basically an idiot and thinks Jason Kidd is a good coach. I was commenting on the overall logic of not worrying about the 3 ball and focusing on strengths and kind of working inside out. I wrote it putting words in his mouth of what he should be saying to make such a point rather than his dumb, 'you just don't need it' point. Basically, every team wants him out there shooting low efficient shots than rampaging the lane for himself and creating wide open shots for his teammates. If he floats around out there his guy will sag off and you can't run a real offense so he needs to just keep attacking. Of course he should keep working on shooting, but just getting better and better in the lane should happen too and it's way easier to do for him.

 

You're a touch off saying his form is good, his hands/release are fine which is why he's an ok FT shooter. But everything from there down is broke and needs to be re-done. It's all herky jerky and like a catapult. He has a long way to go to get a good shot.

 

I don't know what to say if you think Thon is good and value 6ish good games over 200 games. It's just small sample that you're overvaluing because 'playoffs'. The guy plays super hard, no one can knock the guys energy and hustle. A guy like that can have spurts here and there just catching people off guard, which he does. But that's pretty much it and his ceiling, backup hustle big. His hands are small and terrible so he can't catch, he has no coordination/dexterity so he's super stiff out there. he's rail thin and can't bang down low. He's tall, tries hard, and can hit an open 3 when left completely uncovered and has all day. That's it. Consistent PT, he played all last year and rated out as one of the 5ish worst players in the whole league. I probably should alter 3 years a bit though as I forgot he's signed for next already. Someone else will give a shot after that and then he'll be done in the NBA. So might make 3 but no way more than 5.

 

Yea I'm sure you were saying Wilson would be good back in October. I wouldn't say I hated on him compared to most, I remember at the draft when everyone bashed and I just said who the heck knows, picks that late are flyers anyway. But yea get to Oct/nov this year and the guy still wasn't even being allowed to play and how could anyone think he'd be doing this? I wasn't screaming anywhere that he sucked but I never thought he'd be doing this now. Basically no non injured 1st rd pick has played less mins than him so we saw literally nothing positive of him. Then you remember he's 23 already and it didn't look good. Turns out these coaches are good and got to him. Same good coaches seem to think Thon is a lost cause.

 

I definitely thought Wilson was a bust coming into the season. I wasn't suggesting I was right on him. My point is that they're both young, both have physical talent(I think Thon has more) and most Bucks fans had written Wilson completely off. And with Maker, it's 2 years where he's been a nice player for us in the post-season. So still a tiny sample size, but more than 6 games. But we disagree on him. I can see him carving out an important niche role as a stretch 4 who's brings a lot of energy and who and be a rotational piece. I think you're embelishing his lack of physical talent a bit, but that's fine.

 

 

As for Giannis, I'm not suggesting he should focus on becoming a 3 point shooter, I'm just saying he needs to take that open shot a tiny bit more often and that if he gets to be a better shooter in the next few years...and given how much he's improved every aspect of his game, there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to. He's amazing at getting to the basket and his footwork is just impressive as hell to watch, and with his length, his game should AWLAYS be attacking. I don't think you have to worry about him becoming a passive player standing around waiting for the ball to start jacking up 3's.

 

I just see that as really the last area of his game that he needs to improve upon and while I think he's already on his way to becoming the best player in the league(just as soon as LeBron slows down or retires), this would make him that much more dangerous.

 

We all agree he's at his best attacking. I'm merely suggesting that this would make that aspect of his game that much stronger....which I'm sure you'd agree with.

[HiAndTight]

Wilson is averaging almost 18 minutes a game and is arguably the 7th man.

 

Right. He's been really good for us this year. He's hitting 45 pct of his 3's. His biggest asset though is he's active, a willing defender, and has improved a great deal from last year. I think every Bucks fan is loving what they're seeing from Wilson this year. Especially compared to what most people thought of him coming into this year and a guy who was playing in the G league this yearI'd also add that Wilson is turning into a pretty nice looking trade asset as well for the poster who said we have absolutely zero trade assets and then repeated the same thing 3 times. Though I hope unless we manage to somehow add a real impact player, he doesn't go anywhere.

 

 

 

 

Anway, on the topic of DeAndre Jordan, anyone think there's a chance he's bought out by the Knicks or the Bucks somehow make a play for him? As I said eaerlier, it seems foolish for a team like NY to give him much playing time when they're basically planning for Zion, Barrett and then all the Superstars that they believe will be flocking to play for their clown owner after the season. But I do think he could have a very positive impact on the Bucks...especially in playoff basketball when the pace of the game slows down.

[CheezWizHed]

Getting DeAndre Jordan on this team gives me a bad feeling of deja vu from when we traded for Anthony Mason. Just the wrong type of player for this team.

[Baldkin]

What would it take to get Kemba Walker and Frank the Tank out of NC? Frank is sitting on the bench ala Thon Maker. Just a thought.

 

They don't have anything to trade. They don't have anything to trade. They don't have anything to trade.

 

They cannot trade a first round pick until 2024.

 

DDV can't shoot. DJ Wilson is playing 10 minutes per game, and while better, still isn't that good. Thon is actually 26 years old (and the entire league knows this) and can't catch a basketball. 4 of their 5 starters are on expiring contracts.

 

They aren't getting AD or Kemba.

4 years of complete mismanagement of the team has come back to bite them.

 

They've got the best record in the NBA and I'm enjoying the ride... but man am I scared for this off season.

 

 

SMH...this old refrain again.

 

They have Brogdon to trade. They have Brogdon to trade. They have Brogdon to trade. They also have a large expiring contract to trade.

 

Certainly not suggesting either are enough for AD, but c'mon.

 

Also, everyone knows he's 26? Is this like everyone knows Pujols is 4 years older based on anecdotal evidence and reddit forums?

 

Literally based on the fact that he graduated high school in Australia before moving to Canada and re enrolling in a "basketball academy", where his agent said he was 14.

 

Brogdon is an RFA, he's about to get paid more than he's worth this off season.... As there is more cap room than good players out there. The same way there was the year the Bucks signed Delly & Mirza.

[HiAndTight]

 

Literally based on the fact that he graduated high school in Australia before moving to Canada and re enrolling in a "basketball academy", where his agent said he was 14.

 

Brogdon is an RFA, he's about to get paid more than he's worth this off season.... As there is more cap room than good players out there. The same way there was the year the Bucks signed Delly & Mirza.

 

 

 

Yes, literally based on one ambiguous video. I'll trust the Bucks and the age they have him listed at which is 21 years old.

 

 

But I think every thing I've seen you talk about the Bucks was how awful they were run. This included the Giannis draft as they got lucky at one point and then it was prior to that.

 

They've got the best record in the NBA and you can't let your blind disdain let you enjoy it without already complaining about the off-season and how much Brodgon is going to get overpaid.

 

I guess if you just decide you're right(Brogdon is going to be overpaid) then no matter what he gets, he can argue he's overpaid.

 

 

Either way, he's a tradeable asset. That's a face. Wilson is a tradeable asset. Fact. Maker, tradeable asset.

 

I never suggested they could get AD or Walker, but you came in and definitively stated they had absolutely none.

 

 

Also, the jump in the cap is not going to be like the year Delly and Telly were signed. So I don't know what Brodgon is going to get, but I'm I think I'll at LEAST wait and see before I declare him overpaid. Hell, I'll wait and see how he plays AFTER he signs before I declare the contract he's yet to sign overpaid.

[HiAndTight]

Getting DeAndre Jordan on this team gives me a bad feeling of deja vu from when we traded for Anthony Mason. Just the wrong type of player for this team.

 

 

I don't really see any comparisons between the two.

 

Mason was a big who needed the offense to run through him...at least a little bit. Jordan doesn't require the ball in his hands....ever really other than when he's rebounding it, or when they're out running.

 

I guess they're both bigs who would be added to a winning team. But I don't see why he'd be a bad fit in any way like Mason?

[DuWayne Steurer]

Jordan's probably not a great fit because he doesn't help w. spacing and he can't shoot from more than about 3 feet away from the basket. Giannis already isn't a threat deep.... I mean he will shoot 3's, but he isn't a true threat, and Jordan never takes threes. Lopez has been a huge add for the simple reason that he's a big that presents a very real and dangerous threat from deep, and helps space the floor for everyone else and creates room for Giannis to operate.

 

Yes, Jordan doesn't need the ball in his hands, but he doesn't soak up a defender and is't a great passer. I just like the dynamic the bucks have on offense right now, and they're already the best rated D in the league right now. Jordan doesn't make their offense better (he probably makes it measurably worse) and while he might make the D "better"... it's probably marginal.

 

Hard pass.

[lcbj68c]

Game results be damned. So tired of watching the Bucks on defense, sprinting out to "defend" a guy for a wide open three...time and time and time and time again.

 

THAT is your take-away from this game? Wow. Bucks defense was outstanding for most of the game.

 

No, wasn't my take-away. The results were awesome! It's just frustrating to watch this team play defense the way they do, ignoring the perimeter and running like chickens with heads cut off out there to defend it. 3pt defense will be the reason they are eliminated from the playoffs, in my opinion.

[homer]

Oh they could totally lose a game or two because of a hot three point shooting team. The nice thing is they are elite at protecting the rim and they don't foul hardly at all so if a team IS going to beat them it's going to have to be by the three ball. I'll take those odds.

[CheezWizHed]

Jordan's probably not a great fit because he doesn't help w. spacing and he can't shoot from more than about 3 feet away from the basket. Giannis already isn't a threat deep.... I mean he will shoot 3's, but he isn't a true threat, and Jordan never takes threes. Lopez has been a huge add for the simple reason that he's a big that presents a very real and dangerous threat from deep, and helps space the floor for everyone else and creates room for Giannis to operate.

 

Yes, Jordan doesn't need the ball in his hands, but he doesn't soak up a defender and is't a great passer. I just like the dynamic the bucks have on offense right now, and they're already the best rated D in the league right now. Jordan doesn't make their offense better (he probably makes it measurably worse) and while he might make the D "better"... it's probably marginal.

 

Hard pass.

 

Yes, this.

 

Mason came on a team with Big Dog, Allen and Sam-I-Am. Those three played fast and fluid. Mason slowed down everything and was a black-hole on the court. He completely changed the dynamic of the team as they just didn't match playing styles.

 

Jordan is an under the basket center and would clog up the very thing that makes our offense good right now: Spacing and outside threats. He fit better when we had Kidd running the offense, but our current offense doens't fit him at all.

 

And Jordan was traded to the Knicks, so we don't need to worry about it.

[tmwiese55]

 

Literally based on the fact that he graduated high school in Australia before moving to Canada and re enrolling in a "basketball academy", where his agent said he was 14.

 

Brogdon is an RFA, he's about to get paid more than he's worth this off season.... As there is more cap room than good players out there. The same way there was the year the Bucks signed Delly & Mirza.

 

 

 

Yes, literally based on one ambiguous video. I'll trust the Bucks and the age they have him listed at which is 21 years old.

 

 

But I think every thing I've seen you talk about the Bucks was how awful they were run. This included the Giannis draft as they got lucky at one point and then it was prior to that.

 

They've got the best record in the NBA and you can't let your blind disdain let you enjoy it without already complaining about the off-season and how much Brodgon is going to get overpaid.

 

I guess if you just decide you're right(Brogdon is going to be overpaid) then no matter what he gets, he can argue he's overpaid.

 

 

Either way, he's a tradeable asset. That's a face. Wilson is a tradeable asset. Fact. Maker, tradeable asset.

 

I never suggested they could get AD or Walker, but you came in and definitively stated they had absolutely none.

 

 

Also, the jump in the cap is not going to be like the year Delly and Telly were signed. So I don't know what Brodgon is going to get, but I'm I think I'll at LEAST wait and see before I declare him overpaid. Hell, I'll wait and see how he plays AFTER he signs before I declare the contract he's yet to sign overpaid.

 

I don't know how anyone can think they didn't make horrible personnel decision there for a 3-4 year stretch. All the business type decisions though have been gold. For personnel, starting with the Jabari draft you've seemingly botched every 1st. But now Wilson showing sign of life at least. Still, Jabari Vaughn, Thon. DDV of course too early to say anything. FA signings, Delly, Telly, Monroe. Trade a 1st and second for one year of Vasquez. So in all those years all they did positively was Brogdon, Brown ok for a 2nd, and now you can say Wilson seems OK. That's a ton more bad than good. Then pretty much since the Kidd firing they've done pretty well on all moves.

 

For the comp that since Wilson looked bad but now got good so you can say the same for Thon. Well, for every young guy that looks terrible for years and/or up until age 23ish but then gets good you can find 50 that stay bad. Then remember that it's almost for sure Thon is closer to 25 than he is to 21 and it lowers it even more. I'd guess he's somewhere in between. You can act like this all conspiracy theory, but MLB players have been caught countless times, other NBA and college players from the same type African situation have been caught, Ersan was too, and several others. The evidence is quite damning in Thon's case that something shady went on, imo. It's just that you could probably assume he was placed or estimated older when he was very young and first went to Australia due to how tall he was, so that's why I'd guess somewhere in the middle

[FVBrewerFan]

Then remember that it's almost for sure Thon is closer to 25 than he is to 21

 

No, I won't remember that because it's not "almost for sure." I have no issue if you want to believe that, but don't make comments that aren't true. Do I know with 100% certainty he's 21? No. But it's not "almost for sure he's not." In fact, his face makes him look like he's 21 tops, if we want to use unproven evidence.

 

I will say this though, his hands are that of a 2 year old.

[tmwiese55]

Well I'd just say then read up on it a bit more, it's fairly clear something shady was done. Though in hindsight I grant phrasing it as closer to 25 might not be quite right because we don't know what they screwed up when initially guessing his age when he went to Australia, kind of what I said later in the post. Phrased as something like almost for sure that his people doctored things for him to appear younger and go to HS again, yea that's probably ok.

[FVBrewerFan]

Well I'd just say then read up on it a bit more, it's fairly clear something shady was done. Though in hindsight I grant phrasing it as closer to 25 might not be quite right because we don't know what they screwed up when initially guessing his age when he went to Australia, kind of what I said later in the post. Phrased as something like almost for sure that his people doctored things for him to appear younger and go to HS again, yea that's probably ok.

 

I did read up on it, and it doesn't prove anything. This would get thrown out of court, because there is no actual evidence here. Just statements not backed up by any proof. Just because someone said they guessed his age doesn't make it true.

[tmwiese55]

If an actual investigation arm of a government or media outlet dug into it I'm confident they'd find plenty of evidence. But again, I'm not here to argue about it. I believe there is more there than you're aware of if you wanted to look but it's not a big deal. We're just idiots on the internet and no one knows for sure. And like I said, they initially guessed his age when entering Australia since there is no records from where he came from so one truly knows. It's more that its fairly clear they can put a timeline together pretty well that makes it almost for sure his handlers cheated. That said, I don't blame them to try and get the money plus there could be legit reason of his family saying the age he was given in Aus was wrong and he was marked as too old the whole time and placed further ahead in school than he should have, which is a fairly innocent reason to do this.

 

But purely from a bball development, specifically body development its impossible to ignore this as an issue. Plenty of guy can bloom late though, especially ones that pick up bball later in life so I wasn't one to automatically rule him out after the draft because of this. But 3-4 years later and nothing has really changed.

[brwrsfan]

I'd like to see Wes Matthews find his way on to the roster either through trade or via buyout. He can play defense, can score the ball and could be a nice addition to our second unit. Plus being from WI, maybe he wants to come home for a bit? I still think the second unit needs one more guy. He can easily take Ersan's minutes, who outside of drawing charges, has been pretty bad of late.

[tmwiese55]

I'd like to see Wes Matthews find his way on to the roster either through trade or via buyout. He can play defense, can score the ball and could be a nice addition to our second unit. Plus being from WI, maybe he wants to come home for a bit? I still think the second unit needs one more guy. He can easily take Ersan's minutes, who outside of drawing charges, has been pretty bad of late.

 

Still hitting his 3s at a high 30s% on high volume. Chatter among Mavs fans is he's been bad though, so I'm curious if he can still play D or if that injury killed his athleticism? I haven't seen enough to comment. Still, have to think I'd be more comfortable with him in the playoffs than Snell/Brown.

[wallus]

We are on the 4 team list of teams that Anthony Davis would sign an extension with..... what a time to be alive!