Milwaukee Bucks 2018 - 2019

[RollieTime]

The Bucks didn't play well last night but at the same time, they got pretty unlucky. The Thunder are an average 3 point shooting team at best, something like 20th in the league. They made over 50% last night, including George going 8-12 (the last several with fairly decent defense). He's a 38% three point shooter. Sometimes it happens.

 

They played poorly on the road against a good team, Giannis had an awful first half and yet they still managed to have it a 1 possession game with a minute to go. That's the sign of a good basketball team. Can't win them all, but to be right there on a night that they clearly didn't have it and the Thunder shot the lights out from three...that's not that bad.

 

Saw Anthony Davis requested a trade. Can't see how the Bucks match up given that we have no first round picks to trade and no real young talent on the roster that would make sense, but it's fun to think about him playing with Giannis!

 

Thon would be a perfect peice to include in a trade since he has asked for a trade and that he still has great untapped potential. Khris Middleton is a good option to look at trading. He seems to be looking for a max deal this offseason and I don’t think he is worth something like $35 million per year. Anthony Davis on the other hand is worth that. He’s still under contract through next season and we would be able to offer him a lot more than other teams could if he goes the free agency route. Who knows, he could sign a contract extension quickly if he likes it here. Middleton can get the max contract he is looking for from the Pelicans since Davis’ contract would be off their books.

 

Looks like the 2020 first round pick is going to the Suns and the 2022 first round pick is going to the Cavs.

 

Bucks Receive:

Anthony Davis

 

Pelicans Receive:

Thon Maker

Khris Middleton

First round pick in 2024

 

Doing a sign and trade with Middleton would be an option that could potentially lower the Pelicans’ return. Maybe we could keep the first round pick if that were to happen.

[Pugger]

The Bucks didn't play well last night but at the same time, they got pretty unlucky. The Thunder are an average 3 point shooting team at best, something like 20th in the league. They made over 50% last night, including George going 8-12 (the last several with fairly decent defense). He's a 38% three point shooter. Sometimes it happens.

 

They played poorly on the road against a good team, Giannis had an awful first half and yet they still managed to have it a 1 possession game with a minute to go. That's the sign of a good basketball team. Can't win them all, but to be right there on a night that they clearly didn't have it and the Thunder shot the lights out from three...that's not that bad.

 

Saw Anthony Davis requested a trade. Can't see how the Bucks match up given that we have no first round picks to trade and no real young talent on the roster that would make sense, but it's fun to think about him playing with Giannis!

 

Yes, what are you gonna do when a team is shooting lights out? Shooting over 50% isn't something teams do very often. It didn't help that our guys couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at times either and turned it over too much. Well, you aren't gonna win every night. On to Detroit.

[coolhandluke121]

 

I was going to ask how OKC has Westbrook, George, Adams, Schroeder, and Noel, but then I saw that they are $45M over the cap this year. The NBA salary cap is as much of a joke as the MLB salary cap.

 

Honesty it's hardly like baseball at all. Small market teams are just as likely to go way over the cap as large market teams. There's enough revenue sharing. Also, you can only go over the cap to retain your own players (with Bird Rights), use one exception salary slot per year, and sign draft picks and minimum contracts, all except the first of which are roughly equal to the average player salary or far below it. Basically, you can't just sign a bunch of free agents from other teams without the salary cap room. Players still force some trades to desirable markets, but that's their prerogative. That's player preference giving big markets an advantage; the CBA isn't helping them at all. It helps teams retain their own players but doesn't allow teams to go over the cap to sign major free agents.

 

OKC is way over because they've been a playoff team for so long. It's normal to try to keep a contender together. The Bucks can do the same thing, and should. Anybody who fully understands their CBA should just be hoping they go $45m over the cap. When your window is open, you usually want to spend as much as the CBA allows. If you let any of your free agents walk, the right to go over the cap walks with them. Other than avoiding absurd luxury tax bills and debilitating long-term contracts for truly mediocre players, there's no reason to balk at going way over the cap if you're a contender.

[Mr Southpaw]

The Bucks didn't play well last night but at the same time, they got pretty unlucky. The Thunder are an average 3 point shooting team at best, something like 20th in the league. They made over 50% last night, including George going 8-12 (the last several with fairly decent defense). He's a 38% three point shooter. Sometimes it happens.

 

They played poorly on the road against a good team, Giannis had an awful first half and yet they still managed to have it a 1 possession game with a minute to go. That's the sign of a good basketball team. Can't win them all, but to be right there on a night that they clearly didn't have it and the Thunder shot the lights out from three...that's not that bad.

 

Saw Anthony Davis requested a trade. Can't see how the Bucks match up given that we have no first round picks to trade and no real young talent on the roster that would make sense, but it's fun to think about him playing with Giannis!

 

Thon would be a perfect peice to include in a trade since he has asked for a trade and that he still has great untapped potential. Khris Middleton is a good option to look at trading. He seems to be looking for a max deal this offseason and I don’t think he is worth something like $35 million per year. Anthony Davis on the other hand is worth that. He’s still under contract through next season and we would be able to offer him a lot more than other teams could if he goes the free agency route. Who knows, he could sign a contract extension quickly if he likes it here. Middleton can get the max contract he is looking for from the Pelicans since Davis’ contract would be off their books. .

Looks like the 2020 first round pick is going to the Suns and the 2022 first round pick is going to the Cavs.

 

Bucks Receive:

Anthony Davis

 

Pelicans Receive:

Thon Maker

Khris Middleton

First round pick in 2024

 

Doing a sign and trade with Middleton would be an option that could potentially lower the Pelicans’ return. Maybe we could keep the first round pick if that were to happen.

 

How about Thon, DJ Wilson, and Tony Snell with a draft pick for Davis. We just turn into a great team this year and let Middleton go next year. Have a core of the The Greek and Davis with Bledsoe seems like a strong long term look. Trading Wilson opens the door for C Wood, who is just a fireball ala Dennis Rodman, to ignite our second team.

[Baldkin]

I do love Paul Hennings suggestion of maker / smith for dedmon.

 

This is disappointing. The bucks really went out on a limb for him and yes he doesn’t play much now but Lopez is only on a 1 year deal and he gets to play on a winning team. I hope he gets dealt to a bad team like the hawks so he can get the pt he wants,

 

Edit: just ran it through the trade machine and smith can’t be traded with another player. I would be ok with a carter for Thon trade and then let wood actually get some minutes instead of hanging out in Oshkosh.

 

They could do that trade on Feb 7th (the trade deadline day). Smith (and Hill) can be combined with other players then.

[Baldkin]

Becoming clear to me what this team needs- a heater off the bench. The Bucks bench is what I would describe as "solid." Guys that don't hurt you, fit into their roles, etc. But they don't have anyone who can come into a game and put up 10 points in 4 minutes.

 

They have at least 4 guys on the bench who can do that (Hill, Ersan, Brown, Snell). The problem (?) is they all play team ball and don't chuck, so no one comes in and shoots the ball 8 times in 4 minutes.

[coolhandluke121]

Becoming clear to me what this team needs- a heater off the bench. The Bucks bench is what I would describe as "solid." Guys that don't hurt you, fit into their roles, etc. But they don't have anyone who can come into a game and put up 10 points in 4 minutes.

 

They have at least 4 guys on the bench who can do that (Hill, Ersan, Brown, Snell). The problem (?) is they all play team ball and don't chuck, so no one comes in and shoots the ball 8 times in 4 minutes.

 

It should be easy enough to stagger minutes. It's not unusual to see lesser players start. For example, you can get more productive minutes out of a guy like Snell by always playing him with Giannis. They have good timing together, and all Snell has to do is stand behind the arc and take kick-outs and hand-offs. They usually have really good splits in lineups together. Then you could have Brogdon on the bench in a Manu Ginobili role.

 

However, Brogdon wasn't as effective in that role, and I think part of the reason he's starting is because Bud realized he would be much more effective with better scorers taking attention off of him. Therefore you could make a case that Khris should come off the bench, since Snell is better at sf and has better synergy with Giannis, while Khris has proven he can carry an offense as a go-to scorer but doesn't have the same chemistry with the other starters. His mid-range isoball and slow-it-down game doesn't mesh with them, but would be less infuriating (and more needed) with a bunch of role players and glue guys on the bench.

[OnaBadger58]

FWIW, the Bucks seem to be sending an offer to the Pelicans for Anthony Davis. I don't know how they could possibly pull this off, but I like the aggression. Good ole' Gery Woelfel says they are willing to offer anyone that isn't named Giannis.

[FVBrewerFan]

Becoming clear to me what this team needs- a heater off the bench. The Bucks bench is what I would describe as "solid." Guys that don't hurt you, fit into their roles, etc. But they don't have anyone who can come into a game and put up 10 points in 4 minutes.

 

They have at least 4 guys on the bench who can do that (Hill, Ersan, Brown, Snell). The problem (?) is they all play team ball and don't chuck, so no one comes in and shoots the ball 8 times in 4 minutes.

 

It should be easy enough to stagger minutes. It's not unusual to see lesser players start. For example, you can get more productive minutes out of a guy like Snell by always playing him with Giannis. They have good timing together, and all Snell has to do is stand behind the arc and take kick-outs and hand-offs. They usually have really good splits in lineups together. Then you could have Brogdon on the bench in a Manu Ginobili role.

 

However, Brogdon wasn't as effective in that role, and I think part of the reason he's starting is because Bud realized he would be much more effective with better scorers taking attention off of him. Therefore you could make a case that Khris should come off the bench, since Snell is better at sf and has better synergy with Giannis, while Khris has proven he can carry an offense as a go-to scorer but doesn't have the same chemistry with the other starters. His mid-range isoball and slow-it-down game doesn't mesh with them, but would be less infuriating (and more needed) with a bunch of role players and glue guys on the bench.

 

I agree with all this, but that's the problem. They're not going to use Middy as the 6th man, not in his contract year. He doesn't seem to have a big ego, but he is an NBA player- he still has one. And I don't know that you want to mess with the starting lineup, it's been working.

 

Thing is, he does play with more 2nd teamers than the other starters- so they're sort of doing that already. I just think they need a Jabari-light type guy that can score, wants to score, a true chucker in the Constanza mold.

[coolhandluke121]

 

I agree with all this, but that's the problem. They're not going to use Middy as the 6th man, not in his contract year. He doesn't seem to have a big ego, but he is an NBA player- he still has one. And I don't know that you want to mess with the starting lineup, it's been working.

 

Thing is, he does play with more 2nd teamers than the other starters- so they're sort of doing that already. I just think they need a Jabari-light type guy that can score, wants to score, a true chucker in the Constanza mold.

 

It would be hard to bring Khris off the bench, no doubt. I kind of disagree about the starters doing fine though. They're actually starting slow an awful lot. They have weird synergy and don't play with the best energy. It's the lineups with a good, balanced mix of starters and reserves that are winning games for them.

 

Not sure who the NBA equivalent of Costanza is on offense, but on defense it's probably Jabari.

[tmwiese55]

Lou Williams is the guy you're looking for the Bucks.

 

NBA Costanza chucker IDK that's a good question, Jabari probably isn't too far off but trying to think of a guard type to match George's size. JJ Barrea is too good. I guess I'd go with Dion Waiters. Maybe Reggie Jackson or Austin Rivers.

[FVBrewerFan]

If AD wants to go to the team with the best chance to win it all, maybe multiple times, he would choose the Bucks. With a big two like that, who needs a big 3? But add Bledsoe, Lopez, etc. Wow. That said, I fully expect him to be a Laker.

[brwrsfan]

This only happens in the NBA. It's awful and they need to fix it. Carmelo Anthony did the same thing. "I want to be traded, and I'll only resign with the Knicks". It screws the current team. It hurts the trade market and the league needs to stop encouraging super teams and make fines for tampering and all of that way more to put an end to it. But they won't. Unlike the NFL, the NBA doesn't care about disparity or even playing field. They want the top cities to win.

 

We can hope Giannis is the exception to this rule, but if/when that day comes and he pulls this stunt, it might push me away from the Bucks forever, which would suck.

[coolhandluke121]

This only happens in the NBA. It's awful and they need to fix it. Carmelo Anthony did the same thing. "I want to be traded, and I'll only resign with the Knicks". It screws the current team. It hurts the trade market and the league needs to stop encouraging super teams and make fines for tampering and all of that way more to put an end to it. But they won't. Unlike the NFL, the NBA doesn't care about disparity or even playing field. They want the top cities to win.

 

We can hope Giannis is the exception to this rule, but if/when that day comes and he pulls this stunt, it might push me away from the Bucks forever, which would suck.

 

I hate it too, but the weird thing about it is that the NBA actually has decent rules in place to prevent players from having this level of control. If teams made full use of the rules at their disposal and played hardball a little more, it wouldn't be nearly this bad, but everyone is too scared of alienating star players and their powerful agents.

 

In this case, for example, they could tell AD that he screwed them over and now they can't get fair value for him in a trade, so they're going to keep him until his contract is up and therefore he won't be eligible to sign a supermax contract with anyone. If one NBA team had the balls to do that to one of these players, it would make others think twice. Yeah, they'd risk missing out on any trade return, but they might also make trade offers better if they stick to their guns. At worst, players would learn to keep their trade requests between themselves and their team (a measly $50,000 fine doesn't do jack towards that end) so that teams can arrange a trade on their own terms, without the pressure to trade them and the weaker offers that come with a public request.

 

All that said, AD should have tried to get out a long time ago. This isn't just a case of a small market team victimized. New Orleans is a joke and they should be sued for having football trainers work with the basketball team. That's likely a big part of the reason they have such a bad injury history. It's a disgrace. You're right about small market teams often getting screwed, but there's much more at stake here.

[FVBrewerFan]

This only happens in the NBA. It's awful and they need to fix it. Carmelo Anthony did the same thing. "I want to be traded, and I'll only resign with the Knicks". It screws the current team. It hurts the trade market and the league needs to stop encouraging super teams and make fines for tampering and all of that way more to put an end to it. But they won't. Unlike the NFL, the NBA doesn't care about disparity or even playing field. They want the top cities to win.

 

We can hope Giannis is the exception to this rule, but if/when that day comes and he pulls this stunt, it might push me away from the Bucks forever, which would suck.

 

I feel your pain. But what can the NBA do if a player really wants to play for a certain team? LeBron was always going to LA, tampering or not, as an example. I don't think the NBA wants certain teams to do well, it's just players wanting to go where it's cool and try to create a big 3 somewhere. Not sure how you stop that.

 

In a way, AD is doing the Pels a favor by making it clear he will leave when his contract is done. If that's how he really feels, at least they can trade him now and get something for him.

 

Not all players are so short-sighted. Giannis extended once already, and he will again. He is mature beyond his years and understands they can build a perennial contender- even in Milwaukee. If it was done in SA and OKC, it can be done in Milwaukee.

[brwrsfan]

This only happens in the NBA. It's awful and they need to fix it. Carmelo Anthony did the same thing. "I want to be traded, and I'll only resign with the Knicks". It screws the current team. It hurts the trade market and the league needs to stop encouraging super teams and make fines for tampering and all of that way more to put an end to it. But they won't. Unlike the NFL, the NBA doesn't care about disparity or even playing field. They want the top cities to win.

 

We can hope Giannis is the exception to this rule, but if/when that day comes and he pulls this stunt, it might push me away from the Bucks forever, which would suck.

 

I feel your pain. But what can the NBA do if a player really wants to play for a certain team? LeBron was always going to LA, tampering or not, as an example. I don't think the NBA wants certain teams to do well, it's just players wanting to go where it's cool and try to create a big 3 somewhere. Not sure how you stop that.

 

In a way, AD is doing the Pels a favor by making it clear he will leave when his contract is done. If that's how he really feels, at least they can trade him now and get something for him.

 

Not all players are so short-sighted. Giannis extended once already, and he will again. He is mature beyond his years and understands they can build a perennial contender- even in Milwaukee. If it was done in SA and OKC, it can be done in Milwaukee.

 

I have no issues with players making decisions and if he wants to play for the Lakers, then he'll have the chance to do that - when is contract is up. Making it public that he wants out and that the Lakers are the ONLY team he'd immediately sign an extension with is the part that needs to be fixed. Fine him a ton, prevent that team from signing him, I have no idea exactly what the fix is, but this needs to be stopped. As someone said above, NO could stand up to him (and if they were good they probably would do that) but they won't. They're going to cave and trade him...any team that's not LA would be taking a huge shot at a title this year or next, knowing there's a strong chance he's gone (though Paul George shows its not always a sure thing). I just hate it. I HATE the "let's form a super team" type crap that goes on.

[tmwiese55]

I don't see the logic that it's only in the NBA. They only have to do it in this kind of shady way in the NBA because of the rules and cap in the NBA makes them do it this way. The best players in MLB just leave in FA and go wherever they want. NBA rules prevent that so I don't see how it's different. Pretty much the same in NFL due to contracts not being guaranteed teams can sign whoever they want and players can go where they want. Moreover, no individual player in another spot (besides QBs) have the individual impact on winning and their teams success (and team profits) as NBA stars so in a way it makes sense why they have power.

[Jenkins5]

The NBA is the most player friendly league of the major sports. They have a ton of power & contracts mean little.I dislike it but NBA is bringing more money & ratings every year so it’s working for the game. Bucks, Pacers, Raptors are refreshing because they bring you back to the old league pre super teams & it being a best friend league. To see teams develop, make smart moves, play great team ball, with great coaching is awesome! Not much Diva drama.

 

AD is unrealistic. We don’t have the assets. Our best guys not named Giannis are about to be free agents. The younger guys with control like Wilson Donte and Thon are not the type of big names to build a team around. Cool in theory but just don’t have the young talent

[coolhandluke121]

I don't see the logic that it's only in the NBA. They only have to do it in this kind of shady way in the NBA because of the rules and cap in the NBA makes them do it this way. The best players in MLB just leave in FA and go wherever they want. NBA rules prevent that so I don't see how it's different. Pretty much the same in NFL due to contracts not being guaranteed teams can sign whoever they want and players can go where they want. Moreover, no individual player in another spot (besides QBs) have the individual impact on winning and their teams success (and team profits) as NBA stars so in a way it makes sense why they have power.

 

It's different in how much it affects small markets. When you consider how important stars are, the fact that small markets have trouble retaining them is a huge disadvantage. Baseball has a bigger problem in the sense that they don't even have a salary cap, but players are under team control for a long time and other teams have to overpay to poach them in free agency. Not true in basketball. Also, baseball players have often already hit their peak before free agency or soon thereafter, whereas NBA stars are routinely doing this with their best years ahead of them. Experience matters a lot in the NBA, and 28-30 are often the best ages even if athleticism is declining a tick.

 

I think the biggest issue is that there's so many rules in place to prevent this, and those rules are for the good of the league and for competition and parity, but they're still able to circumvent those rules. And it's happening under the table, in a sense. No reason AD should be able to choose to go to LAL and still get all the supermax benefits designed to help NO keep him.

[tmwiese55]

Good points. I see the biggest difference being how vastly more important one player is, which I said too but this is a different way to look at it. And true on the overpay in MLB, like I said players can go wherever they want in MLB but in NBA its crazy/frustrating they're going where they want and choosing less money to do it. The league/system has been built to prevent it all they can and players keep choosing against the bigger contract.

 

Also, yes while basically each league controls their guys for 7 years it is different that in the NBA they hit FA at 27ish whereas MLB is 30ish.

 

Still, overall it's the same to me. Small market teams can't hold their guys in both. NBA rules just force players to do it this way and I agree it's bad PR/Image or whatever you want to call it for the league to have this drama hanging over every star. And it's even amplified more now because max length deals are 4-5 years in the new CBA instead of previously unlimited and then to 7. So basically FA is just around the corner for everyone

[lcbj68c]

This only happens in the NBA. It's awful and they need to fix it. Carmelo Anthony did the same thing. "I want to be traded, and I'll only resign with the Knicks". It screws the current team. It hurts the trade market and the league needs to stop encouraging super teams and make fines for tampering and all of that way more to put an end to it. But they won't. Unlike the NFL, the NBA doesn't care about disparity or even playing field. They want the top cities to win.

 

We can hope Giannis is the exception to this rule, but if/when that day comes and he pulls this stunt, it might push me away from the Bucks forever, which would suck.

 

They cared so much, they fined AD 50k for pulling a Carmelo.

[adambr2]

FWIW, the Bucks seem to be sending an offer to the Pelicans for Anthony Davis. I don't know how they could possibly pull this off, but I like the aggression. Good ole' Gery Woelfel says they are willing to offer anyone that isn't named Giannis.

 

Unfortunately they're just in really a terrible position to try to pull off a deal like that. All their best trade assets are on expiring contracts, and they don't have much to offer in terms of draft pick arsenal.

[superfly]

Let the Bucks (soon) enter the Wesley Matthews and DeAndre Jordan sweepstakes after the Knicks buy them out. What a great time to be a Bucks fan.

[coolhandluke121]

I'm not sure how much of a role Jordan has in the modern NBA. Gaudy numbers can run hollow. I think he's gonna be run off the floor a lot, or hacked off of it. Lopez is a better fit, and they have 3 pf's who can play center.

 

Matthews is intriguing, but I think foot speed and athleticism on the perimeter are bigger needs right now. They're just not missing what Matthews would give them.

 

I'd gladly take either of them but I don't see it being a huge boost. Lol at the Knicks though. Dolan is the absolute worst.

[nate82]

Middleton joins Giannis on the All Star team.

 

http://www.nba.com/article/2019/01/31/big-names-highlight-nba-all-star-reserves