Dodged a bullet? (Lynn, Archer, Cobb all struggling)

[Boomer5]

FA in general is a silly way to build a team.

[adambr2]

Holland alone costs more than our entire pen combined (even if you include Knebel and Logan). Hope the Cardinals enjoy that one.

[superfly]

I've been banging the drum for awhile for Brian Dozier. Lets get this done, as soon at the Twins hoist the white flag. He is a FIT

 

I guess you don't watch too many Brian Dozier AB's because i've seen plenty over here. He is precisely what Stearns and the rest of us are trying to stay away from (and what everybody whines about Santana for). Big power, lots of K, prolonged slumps at the plate.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I've been banging the drum for awhile for Brian Dozier. Lets get this done, as soon at the Twins hoist the white flag. He is a FIT

 

I guess you don't watch too many Brian Dozier AB's because i've seen plenty over here. He is precisely what Stearns and the rest of us are trying to stay away from (and what everybody whines about Santana for). Big power, lots of K, prolonged slumps at the plate.

 

 

Yes sign me up, his K rate was 20% last year. The guy is a second half player and I will take his .359 OBP and he gets Villar/Sogard and Perez out of the lineup.

[adambr2]

I've been banging the drum for awhile for Brian Dozier. Lets get this done, as soon at the Twins hoist the white flag. He is a FIT

 

I guess you don't watch too many Brian Dozier AB's because i've seen plenty over here. He is precisely what Stearns and the rest of us are trying to stay away from (and what everybody whines about Santana for). Big power, lots of K, prolonged slumps at the plate.

 

He has a lower career K rate than Yelich, so this doesn't really make any sense. The fact that he hits a lot of homeruns is not a problem.

 

He would be a fantastic addition to the lineup. He's a rental however, so the price would need to be right.

[LouisEly]

Dozier is a FA after the season so he will not be able to net a comp pick and he's making $9M this year.

 

If Neil Walker could only get 1/$4M as a FA, I don't think the price will be very high for Dozier.

 

Walker's $17.2M salary was a big chunk to take on - but $9M is pretty significant too and all it cost to get Walker was Eric Hanhold. I don't foresee a top-10 prospect needed to get Dozier.

[adambr2]

Dozier is a FA after the season so he will not be able to net a comp pick and he's making $9M this year.

 

If Neil Walker could only get 1/$4M as a FA, I don't think the price will be very high for Dozier.

 

Walker's $17.2M salary was a big chunk to take on - but $9M is pretty significant too and all it cost to get Walker was Eric Hanhold. I don't foresee a top-10 prospect needed to get Dozier.

 

Dozier is a far better player than Walker. He's very consistent, 2 years younger, and has averaged 4.5 WAR per year every full year he's been in the league.

 

I don't know what it would take to get Dozier but yes I think it's definitely going to take a top 10 organizational prospect, or at the very least, several interesting top 30 guys. They can just make him a QO and take the comp pick, so they're not going to just give him away and there will probably be a market for him if they put him on the block.

 

The Twins already turned down DeLeon for Dozier from the Dodgers, who was around the #30 prospect in all of baseball. Granted he's now a rental so that hurts his value, but you can't just send them Gilbert Lara and call it a day. I would guess it takes a guy from the Ray/Grisham/Ponce tier of prospects to get them motivated enough to consider it.

 

And I would guess, unless his production falls off a cliff this season, that the Lorenzo Cain deal will be a lot closer comp to Dozier's next deal than Neil Walker.

[LouisEly]

They can just make him a QO and take the comp pick, so they're not going to just give him away and there will probably be a market for him if they put him on the block.

The way this last offseason went, particularly for 2B, you don't think that Dozier would take a 1-year, $17M QO deal in a heartbeat? And if you were the Twins, would you want to pay Dozier $17M for one year? If Dozier does accept the QO, they certainly won't get anything for him in trade next year. I don't think the Twins want to take that risk.

 

The Twins played chicken with the Dodgers last year and lost - that's my interpretation of what happened. Dozier is a little better than Walker but not a lot IMO; at least, not enough to net significantly more in trade. I can see the Twins holding out now though because it's early, Sano and Buxton are on the DL, and they invested a lot in bringing in Odorizzi, Lynn, and Reed.

[adambr2]

They can just make him a QO and take the comp pick, so they're not going to just give him away and there will probably be a market for him if they put him on the block.

The way this last offseason went, particularly for 2B, you don't think that Dozier would take a 1-year, $17M QO deal in a heartbeat?

 

If he has a season close to his career norms? No. Not a chance. I think you are severely undervaluing Dozier. He is an elite level 2B and not comparable to Neil Walker.

 

http://m.startribune.com/is-brian-dozier-going-to-get-paid-in-free-agency-and-will-it-be-by-the-twins/479986993/

 

"I don’t want to touch too much on this, it’s the thing that gets asked all the time, but at the same time, I will be a free agent this fall,” Dozier told Souhan. “That’s the bottom line. You can only say you want to be here so much, and nothing gets done. That’s just the way it is. I understand everything. At the same time, you’re six months away from free agency. That’s intriguing.”

 

This doesn't sound like a guy to me who is going to give any thought to a QO. Also want to point out that ESPN projected him for 5/77, which is almost exactly in line with the Lorenzo Cain type deal I was and am predicting he'll get.

[LouisEly]

Stroman put on the DL, and has a 7.71 ERA. Archer gave up 6 ER tonight and has an ERA pushing 6.00. Dodging a bullet so far.

[trwi7]

I don't think Stroman was ever available so I don't know why you brought him up.

[paul253]

Stroman put on the DL, and has a 7.71 ERA. Archer gave up 6 ER tonight and has an ERA pushing 6.00. Dodging a bullet so far

 

This is a tough argument to make. Just because Archer is bad in TB doesn’t mean he would have been equally bad in Milwaukee.

 

Let’s also not forget that in the spot Archer or anyone else would have taken Suter has made 7 starts with an ERA over 5 and Woodruff has started two games and he currently has an ERA over 8. So it’s not like the guys we are using instead are any better.

 

Meanwhile, not that I would have advocated giving Arrietta the contract he got from Philly, but he currently has a 2.59 ERA through 7 starts.

 

Ultimately I think we’d still have have better off with an Archer or Arrietta because I don’t think they are nearly as bad as their early early numbers indicate.

[splitterpfj]

I say we trade for Freddy Peralta.

[young guns]

I say we trade for Freddy Peralta.

[sarcasm]I think all it should take is Asher for Colorado springs to accept.[/sarcasm]

 

This is a tough argument to make. Just because Archer is bad in TB doesn’t mean he would have been equally bad in Milwaukee.

 

Let’s also not forget that in the spot Archer or anyone else would have taken Suter has made 7 starts with an ERA over 5 and Woodruff has started two games and he currently has an ERA over 8. So it’s not like the guys we are using instead are any better.

 

Meanwhile, not that I would have advocated giving Arrietta the contract he got from Philly, but he currently has a 2.59 ERA through 7 starts.

 

Ultimately I think we’d still have have better off with an Archer or Arrietta because I don’t think they are nearly as bad as their early early numbers indicate.

I get what you're saying, but it's not much of an argument. He could also have pitched worse. What he has done is all we get to look at and what he has done tells me I'm glad we didn't trade for him even if who pitched for us instead gave similar results because of archers cost. If we had traded for him, we might not have had peralta 2.0's fantastic start today because he could have been in tampa.

[paul253]

I get what you're saying, but it's not much of an argument

 

It not much of an argument but neither is the “he’s pitching bad now in Tampa so that means he’d be pitching bad now if we traded for him” argument. It’s pointless to look at how someone is doing under completely different circumstances and argue that he’d be doing the same same here.

[TURBO]

Stroman put on the DL, and has a 7.71 ERA. Archer gave up 6 ER tonight and has an ERA pushing 6.00. Dodging a bullet so far

 

This is a tough argument to make. Just because Archer is bad in TB doesn’t mean he would have been equally bad in Milwaukee.

 

Let’s also not forget that in the spot Archer or anyone else would have taken Suter has made 7 starts with an ERA over 5 and Woodruff has started two games and he currently has an ERA over 8. So it’s not like the guys we are using instead are any better.

 

Meanwhile, not that I would have advocated giving Arrietta the contract he got from Philly, but he currently has a 2.59 ERA through 7 starts.

 

Ultimately I think we’d still have have better off with an Archer or Arrietta because I don’t think they are nearly as bad as their early early numbers indicate.

 

Ummmmm, but in aquiring Archer, we would have had to give up the farm, and Suter cost us nothing, so given the situation, I'm happy we didn't give up our future for a horrible Archer.

[MadThinker88]

Add in Tyler Chatwood to the listing for not being signed by the Brewers.

 

Boy he looked the part of road kill out on the mound vs Cleveland (in chicago) tonight.

Tyler did not make it out of the 3rd inning. Gave up 4 runs (all earned) during the 3rd.

Tyler tossed 74 pitches and only 30 were strikes.

 

If I heard correctly its the 5th or 6th start already that he has allowed 6 walks in an outing. Yuck..

 

And to think he got a 3 yr deal for @$38 Million.

 

Ouch. That is a waste of money.

[LouisEly]

Coming into the game Chatwood walked 7.1/9 this year. Yet somehow miraculously his FIP was only 4.08 because he had only given up one HR in 43 IP.

[YelichPosse]

Chatwood's one "decent" game... he walked 3 still... oh , that was vs. Milwaukee .... the only game he didnt give up a run as well... SMH

 

I will say, I was happy they signed him as long and for as much as they did, however, because he always has walked a lot of guys, and seemed like a fringe player at best. Like Brewer years Jeff Suppan with more walks even...

 

However in his one start vs us, they may have tipped their hand that he was signed to be our kryptonite....

[cesser000]

With the Brewers sitting in first place with a 4.5 game lead, the best record in the NL, and tied for the third-best record in baseball, I just got a very good laugh reading through some of the comments that were made in the Alex Cobb signing thread --- viewtopic.php?f=63&t=36521&hilit=cobb

 

 

"Not happy. 17aav is low compared to Arrieta. I think he's worth it and we scrooged this one."

 

"Lynn and Cobb look to be some serious bargains. I’d love to know what happened inside our FO after the Cain Yelich deals. Going into a promising season with our OF/1B and that rotation seems to be a real disconnect."

 

"We can say what we want but on the surface, imo, we really screwed up the pitching moves (or lack of) this offseason."

 

"sure glad Stearns dealt the high end of the prospect pool to help an already above average part of the big league club and didn't bother helping out the weakest part of the team. awesome."

 

"I’m not seeing smart at all here. On paper, this is a very bad rotation. That’s why they play the games of course but this sure looks like unfinished business and not a smart plan at all."

 

"Lots of teams have question marks in the rotation." -- "Yes, they are called non-contenders."

 

"This is a fringe playoff team as is. If things go a fairly positive playoffs, if things go fairly negative 500. You add cobb you change that narrative to... this is a playoff team"

[tmwiese55]

I mean, isn't the starters ERA only 10th in the NL and 20th in MLB? So yea it is a weakness, cudos to smart management in the building of the bullpen to make up for this weakness though. And for likely recognizing that the money it would cost for these guys wouldn't be worth it for the improvement they would give over the route they took.

 

I'd still say there is a concern so many bullpen innings could wear these guys out later in the year. Personally, I don't think that will happen with how they're able to give a lot of days off due to the multiple inning stuff, but it's yet to be seen. Basically, sure would be nice if Anderson and/or Nelson when he's back go back to what they were last year where you can get that 7 or 8 inning sometimes to save the BP

[nate82]

[sarcasm]Dodged a bullet by not trading Braun to the Dodgers for Kemp.....[/sarcasm]

[paul253]

The rotation is NOT a strength of this team. They’ve been bailed out countless times by the offense in some cases and the bullpen in others. The big concerns were that Anderson would revert back to his old self, which it seems like he has, and that Nelson won’t be himself either, which we’ll have to wait and see. We could use an upgrade in my opinion

[MrTPlush]

I think we got hit by the Arrieta bullet though...dang that would have been real nice. Though who knows if he would have even signed here.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Add Fulmer, Stroman and Duffy to the list of names bandied about that we must acquire. YUCK!!!!!