Manny Machado (Part 1)

[Brewcrewin07]

If the baseline is the players the Orioles are looking at from the Phillies...

Buster Olney

‏Verified account @Buster_ESPN

2h2 hours ago

 

Some of the Phillies' prospects being evaluated by the Orioles: Franklyn Kilome, 23 years old, pitcher; Jhailyn Ortiz, 19, outfielder; Arquimedes Gamboa, 20 years old, middle infielder; Adonis Medina, 21, pitcher. It'll be interesting to see if Maikel Franco is part of any offer.

[82brewcrew82]

So Zach Brown, Tristan Lutz, Jean Carmona, Marcos Diplan and perhaps Brett Phillips as equivalents?

[MrTPlush]

I also thought trading Burnes just wouldn’t make sense because of contributions at the MLB level, but there are a lot of ways to minimize that loss. Obvious is a Britton/Machado package so you replace him with another reliever. They could also add a starter (I find this likely regardless) and shift Peralta to the pen. They could simply trade for a reliever after getting Machado.

 

Not advocating for it, just think there are ways to trade Burnes and be fine. I’d definitely want to keep Burnes if he can contribute at the MLB level.

[adambr2]

I also thought trading Burnes just wouldn’t make sense because of contributions at the MLB level, but there are a lot of ways to minimize that loss. Obvious is a Britton/Machado package so you replace him with another reliever. They could also add a starter (I find this likely regardless) and shift Peralta to the pen. They could simply trade for a reliever after getting Machado.

 

Not advocating for it, just think there are ways to trade Burnes and be fine. I’d definitely want to keep Burnes if he can contribute at the MLB level.

 

If you really, really want to *go for it*, yet not give up the big 3 prospects or current MLB contributors, this would be my plan.

 

Machado for Arcia, Ortiz and Phillips:

This is a lot to give up including Arcia, but its probably the top offer. And its probably the only way to keep Burnes. Dubon can replace Arcia in 2019.

 

Ramos for Ponce + Lara:

Ramos is a straight rental. It's hard to argue the Rays can do better than this.

 

Burnes to the MLB rotation, Peralta to the bullpen:

Burnes is an MLB ready starter. Peralta, it's a necessary evil to controlling his innings to preserve use out of him all season.

 

Hiura to MLB:

If you're really truly going for it, and going after that big weakness which is the lineup, it's all hands on deck.

 

1) Cain

2) Yelich

3) Machado

4) Shaw

5) Aguilar

6) Thames

7) Ramos

8) Hiura

[82brewcrew82]

I also thought trading Burnes just wouldn’t make sense because of contributions at the MLB level, but there are a lot of ways to minimize that loss. Obvious is a Britton/Machado package so you replace him with another reliever. They could also add a starter (I find this likely regardless) and shift Peralta to the pen. They could simply trade for a reliever after getting Machado.

 

Not advocating for it, just think there are ways to trade Burnes and be fine. I’d definitely want to keep Burnes if he can contribute at the MLB level.

 

If you really, really want to *go for it*, yet not give up the big 3 prospects or current MLB contributors, this would be my plan.

 

Machado for Arcia, Ortiz and Phillips:

This is a lot to give up including Arcia, but its probably the top offer. And its probably the only way to keep Burnes. Dubon can replace Arcia in 2019.

 

Ramos for Ponce + Lara:

Ramos is a straight rental. It's hard to argue the Rays can do better than this.

 

Burnes to the MLB rotation, Peralta to the bullpen:

Burnes is an MLB ready starter. Peralta, it's a necessary evil to controlling his innings to preserve use out of him all season.

 

Hiura to MLB:

If you're really truly going for it, and going after that big weakness which is the lineup, it's all hands on deck.

 

1) Cain

2) Yelich

3) Machado

4) Shaw

5) Aguilar

6) Thames

7) Ramos

8) Hiura

That's bold but it doesn't fix the pitching. The offense may be broken worse but both are broken.

[adambr2]

Well, I think Burnes will help a lot in the rotation.

 

I think you could argue if he does, and if Nelson does come back in September, you might have something. Granted that's a lot of ifs but if we're scoring 6 runs a game we might be able to get by just fine.

 

I just don't see any intriguing SP rentals at all. Happ isn't good. Hamels isn't good. I'd rather give Woodruff a chance than waste trade assets on any of these guys.

[82brewcrew82]

Well, I think Burnes will help a lot in the rotation.

 

I think you could argue if he does, and if Nelson does come back in September, you might have something. Granted that's a lot of ifs but if we're scoring 6 runs a game we might be able to get by just fine.

 

I just don't see any intriguing SP rentals at all. Happ isn't good. Hamels isn't good. I'd rather give Woodruff a chance than waste trade assets on any of these guys.

I'm not willing to spend the assets (not that I matter) to get all that offense so that we "might be able to get buy just fine". It isn't my job to find the right pieces, but if they don't improve the pitching why spend the capital?

[TURBO]

Stop including Nelson in any way shape or form, for contributing this season. It isn't going to happen.

[adambr2]

Stop including Nelson in any way shape or form, for contributing this season. It isn't going to happen.

 

So I said *if*, twice, and that's still not good enough? Do you have inside medical information or sources that go beyond what the rest of us know? What is Stearns' reason for lying to us when he said he still expects Nelson to return this year?

[82brewcrew82]

Stop stating your opinion as an absolute fact. I happen to agree with you but neither of us has any clue.

[adambr2]

Well, I think Burnes will help a lot in the rotation.

 

I think you could argue if he does, and if Nelson does come back in September, you might have something. Granted that's a lot of ifs but if we're scoring 6 runs a game we might be able to get by just fine.

 

I just don't see any intriguing SP rentals at all. Happ isn't good. Hamels isn't good. I'd rather give Woodruff a chance than waste trade assets on any of these guys.

I'm not willing to spend the assets (not that I matter) to get all that offense so that we "might be able to get buy just fine". It isn't my job to find the right pieces, but if they don't improve the pitching why spend the capital?

 

Then we might as well just stand pat. There isn't a sure fix out there for every problem we have, we are going to have to trust that some area of the team "might be able to get by just fine." I'd trust DJ.

[TURBO]

Stop including Nelson in any way shape or form, for contributing this season. It isn't going to happen.

 

So I said *if*, twice, and that's still not good enough? Do you have inside medical information or sources that go beyond what the rest of us know? What is Stearns' reason for lying to us when he said he still expects Nelson to return this year?

 

He could return, but to pin any hopes, and I mean ANY hopes on him contributing in a positive manner is foolish. It would be a miracle if he adds anything to this team this season. Next year, yeah, I'm on board with that, but I just don't see it happening this year.

[82brewcrew82]

Then we might as well just stand pat. There isn't a sure fix out there for every problem we have, we are going to have to trust that some area of the team "might be able to get by just fine." I'd trust DJ.

That's my point. Too many holes. Stand pat, keep you assets and reassess in the off season. Let Nottingham catch and see if he can't be the answer gong forward. Push Hiura to see if he is the answer at second. Let Peralta, Burnes and Woodruff start to see what we have with those guys. Give Arcia the rest of the year and see where he fits.

[MrTPlush]

Stop including Nelson in any way shape or form, for contributing this season. It isn't going to happen.

 

Why? He is starting to throw off a mound. He should be ready come September if he ramps it up within the next few weeks. I’m not going to make any deadline plans assuming he will be back, but he certainly could be.

 

 

Regardless Ramos and Machado would be really nice. Taking out two black ones and inserting good hitters would transform this offense in my opinion. Right now those guys are murdering rally’s.

 

I’m not as big on promoting Hiura, but that’s just me. Brad Miller is fine.

 

I’d like to see a starter added, but at some point flip flopping Burnes/Peralta isn’t a bad idea. I don’t think the Brewers are doing that tough. I think if Burnes survives the deadline he is bullpen only. I just have a hard time seeing them not add a starter. Once Peralta hits an innings limit what do we do?

[TURBO]

Stop stating your opinion as an absolute fact. I happen to agree with you but neither of us has any clue.

 

It's a message board.

 

I'll re-word it then:

 

Please don't get your hopes up that Nelson can contribute anything on the positive side this season. We have been given date after date on when he might return, he has missed all those dates, and now is pushed all the way until Septemeber before he might be able to pitch for us again.

 

I just can't see him being any kind of a factor, even if he does take the mound this year. If he sees action, I am expecting spring training type numbers from a guy who has been out for all of this season and a big chunk of last season. Shoulder injuries are serious business.

 

Hopefully that is better.

[82brewcrew82]

He could return, but to pin any hopes, and I mean ANY hopes on him contributing in a positive manner is foolish. It would be a miracle if he adds anything to this team this season. Next year, yeah, I'm on board with that, but I just don't see it happening this year.

Hey, that's your opinion and it's a reasonable opinion. However, if the team is saying September then having the opposing opinion isn't unreasonable either. Calling those with that opposing view point "foolish" isn't going to get you anything but animosity. You're point is valid, make it without being hostile about it.

[82brewcrew82]

Stop stating your opinion as an absolute fact. I happen to agree with you but neither of us has any clue.

 

It's a message board.

 

I'll re-word it then:

 

Please don't get your hopes up that Nelson can contribute anything on the positive side this season. We have been given date after date on when he might return, he has missed all those dates, and now is pushed all the way until Septemeber before he might be able to pitch for us again.

 

I just can't see him being any kind of a factor, even if he does take the mound this year. If he sees action, I am expecting spring training type numbers from a guy who has been out for all of this season and a big chunk of last season. Shoulder injuries are serious business.

 

Hopefully that is better.

It is better, and its a good point made in a way that will actually facilitate discussion. Just because it's a message board doesn't mean everything has to be a flaming post.

[82brewcrew82]

Seems to be a lot of chatter tonight from a lot of sources. Makes me think this is getting down to brass tacks and all.

[Boomer5]

People really think Nelson will be a significant contributer in 2018? Really? He is barely tossing off a mound and it's mid July.

 

His "return" is almost certainly being used as a decoy in trade negotiations.

[MrTPlush]

People really think Nelson will be a significant contributer in 2018? Really? He is barely tossing off a mound and it's mid July.

 

His "return" is almost certainly being used as a decoy in trade negotiations.

 

No, his return is a legitimate possibility. As you said he is throwing off a mound. They labeled it as lightly so I assume it isn’t fully throwing off a mound, which means he probably isn’t a month away. 6 Weeks? Maybe realistic.

 

Also I don’t think anyone said he would be a major contributor. Pretty sure the first post tonight mentioning it had a disclaimer.

[trwi7]

He could return, but to pin any hopes, and I mean ANY hopes on him contributing in a positive manner is foolish. It would be a miracle if he adds anything to this team this season. Next year, yeah, I'm on board with that, but I just don't see it happening this year.

Hey, that's your opinion and it's a reasonable opinion. However, if the team is saying September then having the opposing opinion isn't unreasonable either. Calling those with that opposing view point "foolish" isn't going to get you anything but animosity. You're point is valid, make it without being hostile about it.

 

Geez, some of you need to stop being such snowflakes.

[MrTPlush]

He could return, but to pin any hopes, and I mean ANY hopes on him contributing in a positive manner is foolish. It would be a miracle if he adds anything to this team this season. Next year, yeah, I'm on board with that, but I just don't see it happening this year.

Hey, that's your opinion and it's a reasonable opinion. However, if the team is saying September then having the opposing opinion isn't unreasonable either. Calling those with that opposing view point "foolish" isn't going to get you anything but animosity. You're point is valid, make it without being hostile about it.

 

Geez, some of you need to stop being such snowflakes.

 

 

First a full blown religious rant and now calling people snowflakes. Not sure what is falling faster: the Brewers or the forum tonight.

[superfly]

Hey, that's your opinion and it's a reasonable opinion. However, if the team is saying September then having the opposing opinion isn't unreasonable either. Calling those with that opposing view point "foolish" isn't going to get you anything but animosity. You're point is valid, make it without being hostile about it.

 

Geez, some of you need to stop being such snowflakes.

 

 

First a full blown religious rant and now calling people snowflakes. Not sure what is falling faster: the Brewers or the forum tonight.

 

Tends to happen when folks beat a topic to death and then begin rehashing it 100 times within a week or two.

[reillymcshane]

I'm asking people to drop the childish back and forth crap. That's a warning for those involved. If it keeps up, we will suspend some accounts.

[jvrocksaz]

I saw this elsewhere and I figured I would post it to cheer everyone up...

 

MLB teams that recently experienced 5-game losing streaks:

 

2018 Brewers

2017 Astros

2016 Cubs

2014 Giants

2012 Giants

2011 Cardinals

 

The last 5 clubs on that list won the World Series.

 

Not saying the Brewers are winning the World Series. Just saying, you know, baseball.