Manny Machado (Part 1)

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The longer this drags on, I'd have to think, is good news for us if we do end up getting him.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Does Bowden have any sources whatsoever? You'd think that former GM would have sources and thus would be somewhat reliable with the "rumors" that he throws out there. Appears that he literally does what all of us do here on this board and just speculate on stuff - as if he knows what he's actually talking about, and then put a "not confirmed" at the very bottom to cover his a$$ when someone calls him out on it.

 

I'm guessing here, but the grain of truth in that rumor is probably that it was close to the Orioles original ask of the Brewers. It was probably politely declined, laughed at behind closed doors, and led to where we are now.

[MrTPlush]

 

LOL!

 

I feel like this guy must work for the Orioles, what an awful awful proposal.

 

Doesn’t seem like what Stearns would do.l

 

Yah...and three weeks ago trading for Machado was not a Stearns type move. It was almost offensive to even mention it. Now we are rumored a front runner putting together pretty substantial packages together to offer.

 

Maybe we just don’t know what Stearns will do with a really good team. Something he hasn’t had before this year. Hasn’t even had a true contending team planned from the winter prior. 2017 was more a surprise. I keep telling people it’s too early to start assuming what Stearns is going to do or won’t do.

[TURBO]

I doubt they'd want him given their situation, but maybe they'd take a chance on Villar as the 3rd piece? Spitballing here of course but maybe give him regular PT at SS and see if he can rebound with them. If he does they can flip him next year or just let him fill the gap for a while for them. They're going to need someone to fill in once Machado is gone. And of course I don't know what they have in AAA for SS to bring up.

 

For us it would be free a 40 man spot and you'd still have Miller, Perez, Saladino to play 2B. Hurts your depth a bit but that still three versatile backups you have for the infield. Basically he seems a bit expendable if you have Machado now and plan on Huera being up next year.

 

I think the ship has sailed on turning Villar into something more than what he is. His arbitration is getting somewhat expensive as well. The O's still may take him as filler, but he wouldn't have any value in the trade.

 

It would be nice if Villar was allowed to play 10-12 games in a row, instead of playing 1 or 2, benched for 3, play one, bench for 2, then play 3. It is maddening to me that he just can't seem to play consistantly.

 

 

I can 100% see it happening... Trade him to someone, he ends up being 2016 Villar for the next 3 years, based on consistent playing time elsewhere.

 

Rant over.

[MrTPlush]

 

LOL!

 

I feel like this guy must work for the Orioles, what an awful awful proposal.

 

Doesn’t seem like what Stearns would do.l

 

Yah...and three weeks ago trading for Machado was not a Stearns type move. It was almost offensive to even mention it. Now we are rumored a front runner putting together pretty substantial packages together to offer.

 

Maybe we just don’t know what Stearns will do with a really good team. Something he hasn’t had before this year. Hasn’t even had a true contending team planned from the winter prior. 2017 was more a surprise. I keep telling people it’s too early to start assuming what Stearns is going to do or won’t do.

 

I don’t think that offer is anywhere near what is a potential deal from Milwaukee’s side, but appears we are dangling good players.

[TURBO]

How awesome would it be if the Brewers somehow swung Machado and Syndergaard? It would gut the system getting Thor but man this would be unreal as a Brewer fan.

 

Thor, who has pitched what, 90 innings since 2016?

 

Way too risky for me!

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

How awesome would it be if the Brewers somehow swung Machado and Syndergaard? It would gut the system getting Thor but man this would be unreal as a Brewer fan.

 

Thor, who has pitched what, 90 innings since 2016?

 

Way too risky for me!

 

While Syndergaard would be the flashy acquisition, deGrom is the better pitcher. He's who I'd target and give up a huge haul for.

[TURBO]

Jon Morosi of MLB Network hears that the Orioles are willing to trade Manny Machado to the Yankees if pitching prospect Justus Sheffield is part of the return.

 

Sheffield entered the 2018 season as a consensus top-50 prospect in all of baseball and he has registered excellent numbers this year between Double-A and Triple-A, so the Yankees probably aren't going to give him up for a rental -- even a rental of Machado's stature. But this report is at least notable for the fact that the O's are willing to engage the Yankees in trade negotiations. Other teams involved in the Machado sweepstakes include the Phillies, Dodgers, Brewers, Diamondbacks, Braves, Cubs, and Red Sox.

 

Source: Jon Meoli on Twitter

 

Jul 11 - 11:45 AM

[MilwaukeeBeers]

The O's have zero leverage. How come that's so hard for some of you to believe? It's clear most of these rumored offers are fiction or leaked to the press by the Orioles themselves.

[narwhalattack]

 

LOL!

 

I feel like this guy must work for the Orioles, what an awful awful proposal.

 

Doesn’t seem like what Stearns would do.l

 

Yah...and three weeks ago trading for Machado was not a Stearns type move. It was almost offensive to even mention it. Now we are rumored a front runner putting together pretty substantial packages together to offer.

 

Maybe we just don’t know what Stearns will do with a really good team. Something he hasn’t had before this year. Hasn’t even had a true contending team planned from the winter prior. 2017 was more a surprise. I keep telling people it’s too early to start assuming what Stearns is going to do or won’t do.

 

It’s true that we don’t have a lengthy track record to work with regarding Stearns, and that we are in a different situation than where we were for the past few years, but from what he’s shown so far he seems to be more geared towards long-term success, or at the very least not sacrificing substantial future assets for the sake of a short burst. He may change his tactics now that he’s working with a definite contender, but to sell low on Arcia on top of trading away our best pitching prospect for a two-month rental seems like too dramatic of a deviance from the norm. This isn’t to say I know what’s going on in his head, but it just seems radically different from what we’ve seen so far.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The O's have zero leverage. How come that's so hard for some of you to believe? It's clear most of these rumored offers are fiction or leaked to the press by the Orioles themselves.

 

I wouldn't say they have zero leverage. It isn't like there isn't competition for Machado's services. That's pretty much the definition of leverage. They aren't going to get near the haul they would have gotten trading him last year or even this past offseason, but they are still going to get a good package.

 

And why wouldn't they try to drive up the price on him? That's just solid business.

[KeithStone53151]

 

LOL!

 

I feel like this guy must work for the Orioles, what an awful awful proposal.

 

Doesn’t seem like what Stearns would do.l

 

Yah...and three weeks ago trading for Machado was not a Stearns type move. It was almost offensive to even mention it. Now we are rumored a front runner putting together pretty substantial packages together to offer.

 

Maybe we just don’t know what Stearns will do with a really good team. Something he hasn’t had before this year. Hasn’t even had a true contending team planned from the winter prior. 2017 was more a surprise. I keep telling people it’s too early to start assuming what Stearns is going to do or won’t do.

 

Your point is sound. In fairness, I'm still very surprised by the rumors. This definitely seems unlike what I've grown to expect from Stearns over the last 3 years. I still don't think he'll overpay, the offer noted by Bowden is wildly ridiculous. I'll add, this is entirely my opinion...no facts here, well other than Bowden is wildly ridiculous...that's a fact.

 

If Arcia's stock has seriously dropped that much, I'd rather not trade him at all. Send him to AAA for the rest of the year and work on his swing mechanics/approach over the offseason.

 

If you haven't gone to the orioles fan board and want to see some serious comedy, you should. Below is the most recent offer I saw...in this case between the orioles and yankees. And this isn't isolated to one or a few guys, there are probably 2 or 3 sane guys shooting down these outlandish offers made by 20-30 of them.

 

"Manny, Gaus and Britton for Sheffield, Andujar, Frazier, Estrata, Tate, Garcia and Drury . Go big if you are going to deal with the Yanks"

[Brewer Fever]

Rosenthal just posted a pay article on the Athletic that appears to suggest the All Star game might delay a Machado trade just as I suggested here a few days ago. I wasn't able to read the article just the preview on Twitter. The game is practically in Baltimore's back yard and Machado is their only representative.

[KeithStone53151]

The O's have zero leverage. How come that's so hard for some of you to believe? It's clear most of these rumored offers are fiction or leaked to the press by the Orioles themselves.

 

I wouldn't say they have zero leverage. It isn't like there isn't competition for Machado's services. That's pretty much the definition of leverage. They aren't going to get near the haul they would have gotten trading him last year or even this past offseason, but they are still going to get a good package.

 

And why wouldn't they try to drive up the price on him? That's just solid business.

 

It isn't about leverage. It's simply a bidding war. Even the lowest reported offers are much better than a comp pick, that isn't up for debate. Which team offers the best package, that's who gets MM. Unless it's the yankees, then Angelos throws ice-water on the trade and he goes to the 2nd best offer. It's really that simple.

 

I'll add/clarify that it's the offer that the Orioles think is the best offer. Should be obvious but I'll make that clear. I think many of our MLB ready prospects will be more highly regarded by the Orioles than the a ball players the Dodgers have to offer, again that's opinion.

[Lee16]

I still say it ends up being Ortiz, Medeiros and Phillips for Machado. Obviously Baltimore is holding out for more than just Ortiz and Phillips, but we're obviously not going to throw in Burnes/Peralta/Woodruff either. Medeiros seems like a good addition to a package, especially if Stearns wants to get a deal done now before the Yankees or Red Sox offer up something too good for the Orioles to refuse.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

The O's have zero leverage. How come that's so hard for some of you to believe? It's clear most of these rumored offers are fiction or leaked to the press by the Orioles themselves.

 

I wouldn't say they have zero leverage. It isn't like there isn't competition for Machado's services. That's pretty much the definition of leverage. They aren't going to get near the haul they would have gotten trading him last year or even this past offseason, but they are still going to get a good package.

 

And why wouldn't they try to drive up the price on him? That's just solid business.

It's close to none. I'm not saying they're teams colluding, but it's fair to say no team is eager to participate in a bidding war after last year. I'm pretty sure teams are throwing them FAIR take it or leave it offers because in reality the prospects coming back are more valuable than the comp pick. They're gonna trade him and teams know this. Maybe a team blinks, but after the Yankees debacle last year it's unlikely. Just my opinion though.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

I think a big piece missing in this discussion, are the two words at the end of that tweet....”Not Confirmed”. We shall see what ends up happening. But when reading it I felt like he just pulled three popular names out of a hat and thought it sounded nice.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

These rumors aren't even believable. I guess that Yankees can afford to lose Sheffield for a rental but my god, what a robbery that would be.

[KeithStone53151]

The O's have zero leverage. How come that's so hard for some of you to believe? It's clear most of these rumored offers are fiction or leaked to the press by the Orioles themselves.

 

I wouldn't say they have zero leverage. It isn't like there isn't competition for Machado's services. That's pretty much the definition of leverage. They aren't going to get near the haul they would have gotten trading him last year or even this past offseason, but they are still going to get a good package.

 

And why wouldn't they try to drive up the price on him? That's just solid business.

It's close to none. I'm not saying they're teams colluding, but it's fair to say no team is eager to participate in a bidding war after last year. I'm pretty sure teams are throwing them FAIR take it or leave it offers because in reality the prospects coming back are more valuable than the comp pick. They're gonna trade him and teams know this. Maybe a team blinks, but after the Yankees debacle last year it's unlikely. Just my opinion though.

 

Teams are all getting very good at analyzing players. Not all models are equal I'm sure, but I'm sure the Dodgers and Brewers value MM similarly(along with other teams). I suspect the offers are fairly similar because teams are valuing players fairly similar. And when I say teams, I say most teams...I fully expect the Orioles are about a decade behind most other teams.

[KeithStone53151]

These rumors aren't even believable. I guess that Yankees can afford to lose Sheffield for a rental but my god, what a robbery that would be.

 

What I posted wasn't a rumor. It was what someone from the Orioles message board deemed a fair trade. FYI

[chuckiehacks]

While we don't know everything about how Stearns will operate, one thing that I think is clear is that he holds firm to his idea of value and won't overpay. There have been numerous examples of this - Quintana/Gray last year, Darvish/FA pitching, not selling low on Santana (even though they were clearly trying to move him), etc.

 

The questions are:

-Are there times you should overpay (the 2008 CC example, or when it clearly makes you a favorite)?

-Is this one of those times?

 

My answers would be:

-Yes (flags fly forever)

-Ehhh...not sure. This is why he's the GM & I'm not.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

A Yankees fan from Barstool (trash outside Carrabis) just tweeted this

https://twitter.com/BarstoolHubbs/status/1017109231466663937?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

 

He also "reported" Ellsbury was going to be traded to the Brewers, so grain of salt city.

[Brewer Fever]

While we don't know everything about how Stearns will operate, one thing that I think is clear is that he holds firm to his idea of value and won't overpay. There have been numerous examples of this - Quintana/Gray last year, Darvish/FA pitching, not selling low on Santana (even though they were clearly trying to move him), etc.

 

The questions are:

-Are there times you should overpay (the 2008 CC example, or when it clearly makes you a favorite)?

-Is this one of those times?

 

My answers would be:

-Yes (flags fly forever)

-Ehhh...not sure. This is why he's the GM & I'm not.

 

Unless they have data that shows Machado is fielding the position better at SS recently, I don't think he's worth an overpay. His range this year has been historically bad. If they can part with pieces they really don't believe in, then sure.

 

His bat is so good that he's still a plus, plus player even with defensive deficiencies accounted for. Part of me thinks Stearns is in this to make sure someone else doesn't get Machado too cheap.

 

I wouldn't be shocked if the Brewers trade for Machado. I would be absolutely shocked if they cave and trade someone like Burnes, Arcia, Peralta, Hiura, or Brown. I don't even take reports with those names seriously.

[Madhawk23]

Where again would the Yankees play Manny? Andujar is at 3B, Didi at SS and Torres at 2B, right? Are they bringing Didi off the bench then, or just finding a way to rotate guys into the DH spot? Just seems like the Yankees would have other needs before picking up another SS, but maybe I'm missing something. If they do agree to throw Sheffield into the deal, then it probably becomes a no brainer as I'm sure that would be the best offer on the table for the O's.

[SeaBass]

Where again would the Yankees play Manny? Andujar is at 3B, Didi at SS and Torres at 2B, right? Are they bringing Didi off the bench then, or just finding a way to rotate guys into the DH spot? Just seems like the Yankees would have other needs before picking up another SS, but maybe I'm missing something. If they do agree to throw Sheffield into the deal, then it probably becomes a no brainer as I'm sure that would be the best offer on the table for the O's.

What I've been seeing is that if the Yankees trade Andujar for pitching then Manny would be a trade target for them. If not, then no.

 

I don't think the Yanks are a strong player for him but you never know.