Manny Machado (Part 1)

[StearnsFTW]

I'm just the opposite at C,SS,CF. I'll gladly sacrifice some offense for premium defense.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'll gladly move Arcia...I want guys that are capable hitters and will sacrifice Defense to get them..He can't hit, and for me, that's not going to cut it

 

Arcia's 2017 numbers (as a 22-year-old) indicate that is a very incorrect assumption. .277 with 15 HRs and a .731 OPS in 506 ABs. Not world-beating by any means, but when combined with slick defense, I'd take those numbers any day. He wasn't doing it with smoke and mirrors. The blanket statement of "he can't hit" is a proven fallacy.

[Humans Need Water]

Did this many people think Arcia couldn't hit during his entire minor league career when he was 4yrs young for every level and his 2017 season? Or is this now a thing because he struggled hard for 2.5 months in 2018? Arcia isn't going anywhere unless it's a package for a rotation arm.

 

Reports from guys with actual sources have been rumoring Woodruff/Broxton and Ortiz/Phillips with the Os wanting Burnes - these are much more in line with what's realistically going to happen. These guys are all prospects and a 4th OF who has the ability to be a starting CF if he improves his bat to ball skills and he's also 28yrs old. Arcia is 23 with 4yrs cheap control and GG potential at *the* premium defensive spot after hitting 277 with 730 OPS at age 22. *That* is not going for a 2 month rental let alone adding Burnes and Broxton with it

[Brewcrewin07]

I'll gladly move Arcia...I want guys that are capable hitters and will sacrifice Defense to get them..He can't hit, and for me, that's not going to cut it

 

Arcia's 2017 numbers (as a 22-year-old) indicate that is a very incorrect assumption. .277 with 15 HRs and a .731 OPS in 506 ABs. Not world-beating by any means, but when combined with slick defense, I'd take those numbers any day. He wasn't doing it with smoke and mirrors. The blanket statement of "he can't hit" is a proven fallacy.

 

Now give me .300, and 25HR's from the SS position with that Defense, and I'm sold.

[liveforoctober]

I would hate to sell Arcia at this point. The guy is a year removed from a 15 HR season with future GGs

 

I agree... although that would depend on how much they believe in Dubon? If Huira is the 2B next year and beyond and they think Dubon = Arcia ... then Arcia becomes expendable.

 

I don't know what I think at this point... but including Arcia in the deal at this point isn't unthinkable.

[narwhalattack]

I'll gladly move Arcia...I want guys that are capable hitters and will sacrifice Defense to get them..He can't hit, and for me, that's not going to cut it

 

Arcia's 2017 numbers (as a 22-year-old) indicate that is a very incorrect assumption. .277 with 15 HRs and a .731 OPS in 506 ABs. Not world-beating by any means, but when combined with slick defense, I'd take those numbers any day. He wasn't doing it with smoke and mirrors. The blanket statement of "he can't hit" is a proven fallacy.

 

Now give me .300, and 25HR's from the SS position with that Defense, and I'm sold.

 

And I’d like to eat caviar and Kobe beef every day but that ain’t happening.

[clancyphile]

Burnes is going nowhere. That is very clear at this point.

 

I'd agree.

 

If Phillips/Broxton and Arcia are two of the pieces, I can see offering a Wilkerson/Barnes combo instead of Ortiz, Woodruff, or Burnes. I really have no problem plugging Woodruff and Barnes into the bullpen this year to get two more Hader-esque types.

[Humans Need Water]

I'll gladly move Arcia...I want guys that are capable hitters and will sacrifice Defense to get them..He can't hit, and for me, that's not going to cut it

 

Arcia's 2017 numbers (as a 22-year-old) indicate that is a very incorrect assumption. .277 with 15 HRs and a .731 OPS in 506 ABs. Not world-beating by any means, but when combined with slick defense, I'd take those numbers any day. He wasn't doing it with smoke and mirrors. The blanket statement of "he can't hit" is a proven fallacy.

 

Now give me .300, and 25HR's from the SS position with that Defense, and I'm sold.

So you're basically asking for a first ballot HOF player. Sweet

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'll gladly move Arcia...I want guys that are capable hitters and will sacrifice Defense to get them..He can't hit, and for me, that's not going to cut it

 

Arcia's 2017 numbers (as a 22-year-old) indicate that is a very incorrect assumption. .277 with 15 HRs and a .731 OPS in 506 ABs. Not world-beating by any means, but when combined with slick defense, I'd take those numbers any day. He wasn't doing it with smoke and mirrors. The blanket statement of "he can't hit" is a proven fallacy.

 

Now give me .300, and 25HR's from the SS position with that Defense, and I'm sold.

 

I'm sold too! And there's a lot of those guys out there!

[tmwiese55]

Personally I did think his hitting last year was smoke and mirrors. Of course, no way I thought he'd fall off this hard but it didn't pass the eye test to me. Still with his D if he settled in at .245 10 HRs and OPS above 700 is good enough. That's kind of what I thought, I slight correction down from last year. I still think he could get there but it sure looked bad this year. So it comes down to what management thinks, is he lost cause and do they think Dubon is just as good of a bet as him? If so, then his name would make sense to use in lots of talks. We don't know what they think though. I guess if using him saves a top starting P prospect I see the logic. You can scrap heap guys like Saladino to give good D fill in until Dubon or someone else is ready at SS.

 

Keep in mind our number 1 pick this year was a SS. Of course a high schooler so a long way out but the hype around him was potential number 1 pick before some things came up, I don't recall the reason maybe just that everyone thought he was a hard commit to LSU

[Brewcrewin07]

Alright, he doesn't have to hit .300...hit .250 for all I care, but I want my SS to be a power guy.

[adambr2]

Alright, he doesn't have to hit .300...hit .250 for all I care, but I want my SS to be a power guy.

 

So you basically want Manny Machado only still with the elite glove at SS.

[bill hAll Star]

Personally I did think his hitting last year was smoke and mirrors. Of course, no way I thought he'd fall off this hard but it didn't pass the eye test to me. Still with his D if he settled in at .245 10 HRs and OPS above 700 is good enough. That's kind of what I thought, I slight correction down from last year. I still think he could get there but it sure looked bad this year. So it comes down to what management thinks, is he lost cause and do they think Dubon is just as good of a bet as him? If so, then his name would make sense to use in lots of talks. We don't know what they think though. I guess if using him saves a top starting P prospect I see the logic. You can scrap heap guys like Saladino to give good D fill in until Dubon or someone else is ready at SS.

 

Keep in mind our number 1 pick this year was a SS. Of course a high schooler so a long way out but the hype around him was potential number 1 pick before some things came up, I don't recall the reason maybe just that everyone thought he was a hard commit to LSU

 

I'm not sure if Dubon is really as good of a bet as Arcia. Dubon doesn't have a ton of power. His peripherals to me look like he may end up as a similar majors bat to Arcia but maybe with a bit more certainty. I would like to see him in the MLB but I'm not betting on him to be a great hitter.

 

I'm in the minority but I'm somewhat intrigued by Saladino. He's not going to turn into Lindor, but I think there's something to bringing back the leg kick and hitting the ball harder and on the ground less. I could see him being a 15 HR guy with a .270/.330/.415 line. Maybe I'm delusional from the small sample of plate appearances this year, I don't know. I'd rather count on him as the super-utility guy, but I could see him being a one year stopgap at SS if it came down to it.

[igor67]

I'd hesitate on Arcia too. There's enough there with the glove that warrants giving him another shot next year, and see if he develops back into at least adequate. We don't also have a ton of other internal options at the moment. Switching gears I had largely ignored this thread until yesterday and I was very intrigued at how low some of the prices were. I'm perfectly happy dealing a depth/ second tier prospect or 3 for a rental. We are facing a potential big roster crunch at the end of the year many of these deals are a chance to get real value for players we might otherwise get nothing for because the Rule V draft (or they take a spot and we lose someone else). But top flight pitching prospects and Hiura are a definite no.

[clancyphile]

I'll gladly move Arcia...I want guys that are capable hitters and will sacrifice Defense to get them..He can't hit, and for me, that's not going to cut it

 

Arcia's 2017 numbers (as a 22-year-old) indicate that is a very incorrect assumption. .277 with 15 HRs and a .731 OPS in 506 ABs. Not world-beating by any means, but when combined with slick defense, I'd take those numbers any day. He wasn't doing it with smoke and mirrors. The blanket statement of "he can't hit" is a proven fallacy.

 

But in 2016, he had his OPS decline by 70 points at Colorado Springs from his 2015 numbers at Biloxi. His 2016 major-league numbers were bad. Much of 2017 is on the strength of June. Outside that month, he hit .265 with an OBP of .312 and a SLG of .391 - and OPS of .703.

 

Maybe he can be a .750 OPS hitter with gold glove defense, but right now, most of what I see aside from that one month is a black hole in the lineup. Let Baltimore see if they can turn him around.

 

Dubon, Moore, and Hager are all looking like they deserve looks.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Not a chance that latest offer is real. Not a chance. We would already have Manny if that deal were ever on the table.

[buckybrewer232]

At AAA in 2016, Arcia had a .599 OPS away from CO Springs- that is awful. Basically it comes down to whether you think Arcia can duplicate and possibly exceed last season's offensive numbers or whether he is like Alcides Escobar 2.0. If you feel he is more likely Escobar 2.0, you don't hesitate to include him in a Machado trade, IMO. He obviously would still have value, but there are a lot guys around who are good defensively but not good offensively. We already have 2 of them in Saladino and Dubon.

 

I trust Stearns and Co's judgement on whether they think Arcia can turned it around or if he's expendable. Personally, I lean more towards questioning whether he'll ever be able to even duplicate last season's numbers, so I wouldn't be heartbroken if he's moved- but I can live with it either way.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Honestly if Arcia were hitting as well as Escobar (prior to this season where Escobar's been unusually terrible) he would still be with the club this season. Arcia's been so bad now for a while that Escobar's numbers would probably put a lot of people at ease.

[Jenkins5]

Alright, he doesn't have to hit .300...hit .250 for all I care, but I want my SS to be a power guy.

 

Why? We have power everywhere. We will be fine with 15 hrs out of stellar defensive... run saving SS

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I would've countered that Broxton/Burnes/Arcia deal with Zagurski

[PeaveyFury]

I put as much faith in that offer being real as I do the odds of Jim Bowden getting another GM job. Seems like the type of deal he would make, and why he's been out of a non-media job for 10 years....

[Lathund]

I feel good about any Machado deal happening or not happening, in that I trust Stearns to not get drawn into a bidding war. He'll have an idea of what he's willing to give up, and either that's enough or it isn't. If it isn't we simply move on. I believe that Stearns properly values MLB-ready pitching prospects, and will handle those guys appropriately.

 

As for Arcia, I have some serious doubts about his hitting. It wasn't just the numbers looking bad this year, he simply looked completely lost. But trading him now would be seriously selling low. He's such a good defender that he doesn't need to hit all that well do be a solid everyday starter. If he ever gets to 85-90 OPS+ (He was at 89 last year) he'll be an above-average starter (i.e 2-3 WAR), and it would make sense to perhaps prioritize offense over defense at other spots instead.

[PeaveyFury]

Much of 2017 is on the strength of June. Outside that month, he hit .265 with an OBP of .312 and a SLG of .391 - and OPS of .703.

 

A .703 OPS is still good for a SS, clancy, and with his defense he'd be borderline all-star caliber with that line.

[JCREW]

don't like to shoot down every rumor out there (party because I don't like my own rumors shot down!). but rest easy milwaukeeans, brewers are not sending a package of burnes, broxton and arcia for machado. not all 3. no way.

 

 

phew.

[Madhawk23]

Does Bowden have any sources whatsoever? You'd think that former GM would have sources and thus would be somewhat reliable with the "rumors" that he throws out there. Appears that he literally does what all of us do here on this board and just speculate on stuff - as if he knows what he's actually talking about, and then put a "not confirmed" at the very bottom to cover his a$$ when someone calls him out on it.