Manny Machado (Part 1)

[markedman5]

It's a relief that Burnes *seems* safe. Honestly, we can do without one of Keon, Phillips, or Santana right now so that wouldn't hurt. Ortiz is also PRETTY far away still with a huge pile of prospects higher on the depth chart and honestly, his injuries and conditioning are red flags. Those two as a "centerpiece" would be ideal.

 

Agree......glad Stearns won't include Burnes.

 

Phillips and Ortiz I can stomach.

[And That]

I would be concerned about Luis Ortiz passing the Orioles' platinum-standard physical examination. I know it's mostly been hamstring problems with Ortiz in the recent past, but I feel as though the Orioles would be leery of him. Because, Orioles.

[chuckiehacks]

I also liked that the article had no info on the NYY offer. Clearly, BAL is leaking these offers to try to drive up the price, but mysteriously, there's no info on the NYY offer, which leads me to believe that there either isn't an offer, or it's not serious.

[YelichPosse]

i have seen it stated that the Yankees did not even make an offer... basically just the Yankees have to be talked about as part of every possible big name, or it's not officially going to happen. they actually NEED starting pitching if anything, if anyone is to "beat" us it would be LA.

[Eye Black]

Can someone with access to these articles provide some cliff notes? I'm far too cheap to pay for the Athletic.

 

https://theathletic.com/427194/2018/07/10/rosenthal-as-machado-talks-heat-up-dodgers-and-brewers-haggle-with-orioles-over-the-price/

 

Basically, O's want Burnes from MKE or Lux or May from LAD. Both teams balking. MKE prefers to build a package around Phillips & Ortiz.

Probably the most insightful comment from the rest of the article that isn’t in the initial “free” passage is this:

 

“For the Orioles, a deal that included Phillips and Ortiz — the Brewers’ Nos. 4 and 5 prospects — probably would draw solid reviews.”

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I wouldn't do Burnes at all for Machado. Ortiz + Phillips. That still sucks but I'd do it same as if Woodruff replaced Ortiz.

 

Burnes and Woodruff profile similarly as mid-rotation starters. Ortiz may be a step below them right now, but might actually have the highest ceiling of all of them. He just hasn't put together than dominant minor league season yet, partially due to injury and/or conditioning concerns, as mentioned. As I've mentioned before, I don't think that Burnes's value as a prospect is all that much higher than Woodruff or even Ortiz. He had a great year last year, be his is far from a can't miss TOR starter, I think.

[Dadbauer]

If this article is to be believed, I think the Brewers are in good shape - they have a palatable offer for both sides and the Orioles are trying to get other teams to bite. We also have space to improve if the price DOES go up. I hope the Dodgers make some traction towards a guy like Scooter to really put us in the drivers seat.

[KeithStone53151]

I would be concerned about Luis Ortiz passing the Orioles' platinum-standard physical examination. I know it's mostly been hamstring problems with Ortiz in the recent past, but I feel as though the Orioles would be leery of him. Because, Orioles.

 

Excellent point, platinum standard...

[KeithStone53151]

One perk to dealing Ortiz/Phillips, clears what would be 2 required 40 man spots after the season. I can't imagine the garbage Baltimore has on their 40 man...

[YelichPosse]

1 31 Jimmy Yacabonis us Pitcher * 26 R R 6' 3" 205 Mar 21, 1992 2013

2 52 Ryan Meisinger us Pitcher * 24 R R 6' 4" 235 May 4, 1994 2015

3 60 Mychal Givens us Pitcher * 28 R R 6' 0" 210 May 13, 1990 2010

4 43 Mike Wright Jr. us Pitcher * 28 R R 6' 6" 215 Jan 3, 1990 2011

5 34 Kevin Gausman us Pitcher * 27 L R 6' 3" 190 Jan 6, 1991 2012

6 51 Paul Fry us Pitcher * 25 L L 6' 0" 190 Jul 26, 1992 2013

7 32 Yefry Ramirez do Pitcher * 24 R R 6' 2" 215 Nov 28, 1993 2011

8 17 Alex Cobb us Pitcher * 30 R R 6' 3" 205 Oct 7, 1987 2006

9 50 Miguel Castro do Pitcher * 23 R R 6' 7" 205 Dec 24, 1994 2012

10 66 Tanner Scott us Pitcher * 23 R L 6' 2" 220 Jul 22, 1994 2014

11 35 Brad Brach us Pitcher * 32 R R 6' 6" 215 Apr 12, 1986 2008

12 53 Zach Britton us Pitcher * 30 L L 6' 3" 195 Dec 22, 1987 2006

13 37 Dylan Bundy us Pitcher * 25 S R 6' 1" 200 Nov 15, 1992 2012

14 54 Andrew Cashner us Pitcher * 31 R R 6' 6" 235 Sep 11, 1986 2008

15 23 Joey Rickard us Position * 27 R L 6' 1" 185 May 21, 1991 2012

16 16 Trey Mancini us Position * 26 R R 6' 4" 215 Mar 18, 1992 2013

17 13 Manny Machado us Position * 25 R R 6' 3" 185 Jul 6, 1992 2010

18 29 Jace Peterson us Position * 28 L R 6' 0" 215 May 9, 1990 2011

19 36 Caleb Joseph us Position * 32 R R 6' 3" 180 Jun 18, 1986 2008

20 10 Adam Jones us Position * 32 R R 6' 2" 215 Aug 1, 1985 2003

21 15 Chance Sisco us Position * 23 L R 6' 2" 195 Feb 24, 1995 2013

22 45 Mark Trumbo us Position * 32 R R 6' 4" 225 Jan 16, 1986 2005

23 2 Danny Valencia us Position * 33 R R 6' 2" 210 Sep 19, 1984 2006

24 19 Chris Davis us Position * 32 L R 6' 3" 230 Mar 17, 1986 2006

25 1 Tim Beckham us Position * 28 R R 6' 1" 205 Jan 27, 1990 2008

26 6 Jonathan Schoop cw Position * 26 R R 6' 1" 225 Oct 16, 1991 2009

27 30 Chris Tillman us Pitcher 10-day 30 R R 6' 5" 200 Apr 15, 1988 2006

28 38 Pedro Araujo do Pitcher 10-day 24 R R 6' 3" 215 Jul 2, 1993 2011

29 14 Craig Gentry us Position 10-day 34 R R 6' 2" 190 Nov 29, 1983 2006

30 12 Steve Wilkerson us Position 10-day 26 S R 6' 1" 195 Jan 11, 1992 2014

31 62 Chris Lee us Pitcher 25 L L 6' 3" 180 Aug 17, 1992 2011

32 57 Donnie Hart us Pitcher 27 L L 5' 11" 180 Sep 6, 1990 2013

33 39 Hunter Harvey us Pitcher 23 R R 6' 3" 175 Dec 9, 1994 2013

34 41 David Hess us Pitcher 24 R R 6' 2" 180 Jul 10, 1993 2014

35 18 Austin Hays us Position 22 R R 6' 1" 195 Jul 5, 1995 2016

36 12 Engelb Vielma ve Position 24 S R 5' 11" 155 Jun 22, 1994 2012

37 27 Andrew Susac us Position 28 R R 6' 1" 215 Mar 22, 1990 2012

38 61 Austin Wynns us Position 27 R R 6' 2" 205 Dec 10, 1990 2013

39 25 Anthony Santander ve Position 23 S R 6' 2" 190 Oct 19, 1994 2012

Rk Uni Name OnActv DL Age B T Ht Wt DoB 1stYr

[YelichPosse]

Baltimore 40 man - just for fun.

[IntentionalHBP]

I just want the Machado rumors to be over with but most likely won’t be until after the All-Star game. If the Brewers land Machado it should be interesting what other trades they make.

[mattyo]

Phillips and Ortiz, huh? Seems reasonable, all things considered.

[tmwiese55]

Yea I'd do Phillips/Ortiz without much hesitation. Keep trying to hold onto Burnes if that's where it's at, maybe try adding a lower level guy if they need a bit more convincing. sure a low level guy could turn into Brantley or Freddy Peralta, but odds are lower...

[FVBrewerFan]

Yea I'd do Phillips/Ortiz without much hesitation. Keep trying to hold onto Burnes if that's where it's at, maybe try adding a lower level guy if they need a bit more convincing. sure a low level guy could turn into Brantley or Freddy Peralta, but odds are lower...

 

Yea, I'm not that excited about making a deal for a rental, but to add that bat for Phillips/Ortiz? I'm ok with that. But since he's only a rental, every week that goes by makes a difference. Maybe throw in Segovia or someone like that if they make a deal this week, otherwise any 3rd player is off the table. Maybe that's too movie-ish, but sure would be nice to get 3 more weeks out of a rental player.

[buckybrewer232]

Phillips and Ortiz, huh? Seems reasonable, all things considered.

 

Agreed. I still wouldn't be crazy about it, but I could live with it and won't deny I'd be excited about having Machado the rest of this season.

 

I sure hope Stearns doesn't blink, though, and end up offering Burnes. In fact, if I was Stearns I would say the offer gets reduced as we creep closer to the deadline. An extra 2-3 weeks of Machado makes a significant difference. I'm guessing Machado is a Brewer before the end of the week.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

Pretty reasonable. Not happy to lose those guys as I think Phillips has more value than this board gives him credit for. Got to give to get though. I would be ok throwing in a low level lottery ticket as well not named Carmona or Rodriguez.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Phillips and Ortiz, huh? Seems reasonable, all things considered.

 

Especially considering Ortiz is one of the many arms that would need to be added to the Brewer 40 man to avoid him being available via Rule 5 draft this offseason. He's got talent, no question - but his injury and conditioning issues have limited the # of innings he's been able to log, and it's prevented him from developing fast enough to solidify a MLB roster spot after 4 minor league seasons. The way their roster is looking, the Brewers probably need to make a decision on whether to get Modeiros or Ortiz on the MLB 40 man, and whoever they'd leave off would surely be claimed by another organization.

[Humans Need Water]

I wouldn't do Burnes at all for Machado. Ortiz + Phillips. That still sucks but I'd do it same as if Woodruff replaced Ortiz.

 

Burnes and Woodruff profile similarly as mid-rotation starters. Ortiz may be a step below them right now, but might actually have the highest ceiling of all of them. He just hasn't put together than dominant minor league season yet, partially due to injury and/or conditioning concerns, as mentioned. As I've mentioned before, I don't think that Burnes's value as a prospect is all that much higher than Woodruff or even Ortiz. He had a great year last year, be his is far from a can't miss TOR starter, I think.

You put Burnes/Woodruff in the same boat, and I get it, but I don't. I'm on here defending Woodruff nonstop the past week because people treat him like a throw-in when he absolutely has the talent to be a legitimate quality starting pitcher. But I rate Burnes in front of him because not only does he have 4 MLB pitches he has plus control while sitting 93-95 consistently touching 97. I believe his ceiling is higher than Woodruff and that's why I don't want him part of a 2 month rental regardless

of how good that rental is - I want Peralta *and* Burnes in the rotation starting 2019. Woodruff consistently hits 95-96 and while I like both his secondary pitches he's not controlling them like Burnes does. I'm a huge Ortiz fan and he gets almost no love on this site it's like most people forget about him - and according to all reports over the past year his conditioning isn't an issue. I think he just might have the highest ceiling of them all but he's also the farthest away (I think Brown can jump him and get to MLB faster given he's an advanced college arm and I also think in 1yr Brown will be a better prospect than Woodruff). Woodruff is MLB ready now and will be 26 heading into next season - that's also why I'd prefer he be traded vs Ortiz (23) or Burnes (24).

[brewerfan82]

Considering some of the ridiculous hauls rentals have returned in recent history, I'd be pretty amazed to get away without losing any of Woodruff, Brown, Burnes, Peralta, or Hiura. I think you can then turn around and package one of Burnes/Peralta along with one of Woodruff/Brown and a couple other pieces for a controllable TOR pitcher and still be in pretty decent shape holding onto Hiura, Burnes or Peralta, Woodruff or Brown, and your new starter over the next few seasons.

[FVBrewerFan]

I'm a huge Ortiz fan and he gets almost no love on this site it's like most people forget about him

 

He was the #5 prospect in our last poll, so I wouldn't say he isn't getting the love. There's just not much conversation about him because he's on and off the DL, and most of his outings this year have been pretty uneventful. Not bad, not great...just kind of meh for a guy who's supposed to be the #5 prospect.

 

Yes, at his age he has a higher ceiling than most of the pitchers being discussed. It's just that I can live with letting him go vs Burnes, and especially Peralta. At least everyone has come around on him, he used be thrown out there all the time in trade packages around here.

[OnaBadger58]

I guess, according to the comments about Rosenthal's article on The Athletic, Baltimore wants Burnes in the deal.

[Humans Need Water]

I'm a huge Ortiz fan and he gets almost no love on this site it's like most people forget about him

 

He was the #5 prospect in our last poll, so I wouldn't say he isn't getting the love. There's just not much conversation about him because he's on and off the DL, and most of his outings this year have been pretty uneventful. Not bad, not great...just kind of meh for a guy who's supposed to be the #5 prospect.

 

Yes, at his age he has a higher ceiling than most of the pitchers being discussed. It's just that I can live with letting him go vs Burnes, and especially Peralta. At least everyone has come around on him, he used be thrown out there all the time in trade packages around here.

He's rated highly in the polls on this site because he's rated highly in our org by every major publication and was recently a Top 65. Last year and this year he almost never gets talked about and it's not because he's on the DL occasionally. It's as if people literally forget about him or dismiss him (ie you saying he was constantly thrown in trade packages all the time) and maybe it's due to him being at AA since 2016 (he's still 2yrs young for that level) while these other prospects continue to advance levels. I'm all for Woodruff or Ortiz vs Burnes for Machado too

[JCREW]

Rosenthal suggests that the O’s are targeting Milwaukee hurler Corbin Burnes and Dodgers prospects Gavin Lux and Dustin May, none of whom appear to be on offer. Notably, per the report, the Brewers “would prefer to build their package” around outielder Brett Phillips and pitching prospect Luis Ortiz — both highly-ranked young talents in their own rights, perhaps suggesting that the Orioles have had some success in generating quality offers.

 

I don't think I have Brewer goggles on if I say that Ortiz and Phillips grade out better than Lux and May. I think the Crew will get Machado the day after the ASG.

[StearnsFTW]

Phillips and Ortiz, huh? Seems reasonable, all things considered.

 

Agreed. I still wouldn't be crazy about it, but I could live with it and won't deny I'd be excited about having Machado the rest of this season.

 

I sure hope Stearns doesn't blink, though, and end up offering Burnes. In fact, if I was Stearns I would say the offer gets reduced as we creep closer to the deadline. An extra 2-3 weeks of Machado makes a significant difference. I'm guessing Machado is a Brewer before the end of the week.

 

This right here. I'm hesitant considering Machado's defense, and I kinda like both those guys, but I could live with it.

 

I'd rather deal Woodruff than Ortiz.