Manny Machado (Part 1)

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Am I the only one who thinks Arcia alone is way too much to give for 2 months of Machado? This would be the definition of selling low.

 

Nope. I’m right there with you. It would be doing the opposite of what I thought we were doing as an organization. I really was pumped to think we were headed in a different direction. A move like that makes me think Stearns will try to parlay this job into a larger market one.

 

Agreed. If you trade Arcia, after Machado walks, you are left with Dubon coming off a torn ACL, Saladino who has been fine, but doesn't come near profiling as anything more than average, and Miller, who would probably hit enough, but has defensive issues. I guess Villar could be moved back to SS, but I would imagine there is a reason he hasn't logged any time there since 2016.

 

If Machado is acquired, I think it would be with the understanding that Arcia would be back up as the main SS next year, hopefully after finding some plate discipline in AAA.

[tmwiese55]

Yea, still very good but not 'generational talent' level good and in the game of baseball it's tough to trust that a half season of stats is going to translate long term. In our situation, sure I'm all for him for the half year. But if I'm the one handing him 400 mil a year after he just put up a 310 OBP I'm probably a bit worried what's realistic going forward.

 

For comp: Harper had a 1.1 OPS at age 22 and 1.0 at age 24. Trout: has never been below 939.

 

And for a clearly really good player but not generational talent like Braun at 23-25 he had OPS of 1.0 .888 and .937.

 

Machado though can play 3B which has value of course but again, this is his first time he's put it fully together offensively and it's only been a half season in his contract year. Maybe this is him going forward but it also wouldn't surprise me if he's a 270/330 guy with 30 HRs going forward. Again, still very good player but not something crazy ridiculous and worth 40 mil per year and a 300-400 mil commitment. I mean, we just kicked Santana's 280/370 30 HRs to the curb.

I never said he was a generational talent but if we're speaking about players at certain positions he's absolutely a generational talent for 3b. My comment about his age was in response to you singling out last year's production and nit picking OBP/OPS comparing it to single seasons for Trout and Harper making Machado's production thus far, in general, seem insignificant when it's the opposite, especially for his age. Machado's 2015/2016 he posted OPS+ of 132 and 130 then dropped last year (still above avg) and now everything has clicked this year. Also, Harper's OPS+ over 3 of the past 5yrs is 111, 114, 125 (this year). And Machado is *significantly* better defensively (3b) than Harper (RF).

 

Santana was bumped out of RF because Stearns wants to compete now and wants all-around players with good bat to ball skills. Defense and bat to ball skills have been issues for Santana. He has a very good eye and patience at the plate but his Ks tend to come from lack of bat to ball skills as opposed to swinging at garbage. But, yeah, I'm sure it was because his offensive numbers last year weren't good enough...

 

Sorry I think you're missing the overall theme. Basically, if you go look at his stats you'll be very surprised how underwhelming they are for someone with his level of hype. Is he still very good, of course. But he hasn't lived up to the hype until this year and it's at the perfect time for him. in baseball, people can have hot two month stretches or they can improve it's now the norm, you just don't know yet on him. I wasn't nitpicking last year, it's his whole career until this year with last year being the worst example. I don't know how it's nitpicking to point out his last season was pretty bad. And to be hyped as this mega type star that shouldn't be happening. Look how much grief Harper is getting for the low BA this year even though his OBP is probably still upper 300s (haven't looked). And to compare to the other two guys who are pegged in the same mega prospect superstar category that people are trying to put Machado in is totally fair, that's my whole point that he's not in that level yet he's being talked about like he is.

 

And the Santana example was merely an obvoius in home example that 270/330 with 30 HRs isn't some freakishly good player since we just tossed one aside last year with better numbers. I think it would be awesome if he has clicked this year and going forward he's a 950+ type OPS playing infield for the next 5-6 years, that's great for baseball. But I'm glad I'm not the one giving him 300-400 mil. Well I guess if I'm the GM of NY/LA it doesn't really matter for them. But if I was GM of any non mega market where that could cripple me then I wouldn't be.

 

And again, for MKE's purposes this doesn't matter. Sure I'd be a tad worried he's gonna regress to the mean a bit but for 2-3 months it's worth the gamble if we don't get raided on prospects.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I'm ok with including a MLB-ready prospect or young player with lots of team control in a trade for a rental the caliber of Machado - provided that prospect is essentially blocked by better options at his best position that were under team control for multiple seasons. That description fit LaPorta to a T when he headlined the Brewers' trade to bring in CC.

 

Phillips won't ever start over Cain or Yelich, and his bat isn't good enough to take over everyday RF duties as long as the Brewers have other veteran corner OF options around. Plus as others have mentioned, there are a pile of younger OF prospects right behind Phillips in the organization. So I'd be fine with trading "the laugh" and wishing him well.

 

I'd hesitate to move Arcia this year - I think he deserves the chance to earn his everyday SS job back next year (if not sooner), and he's a great option to provide stellar defense at a very low cost for a few seasons until some of the other SS prospects at lower levels work their way up. Unless he really turns a corner, I don't feel like Arcia would be an extension candidate - i.e. someone the Brewers value as a franchise cornerstone.

 

The potential pitchers that would be included might be Woodruff, Ortiz, Modeiros, Brown, etc....if I'm Stearns I limit that potential pitchers list to those that are either already on the 40 man or who would need to be put on it to avoid losing them to the Rule 5 draft. Then you trust your internal scouting to tell which of those pitchers have the least upside over their remaining years of control, and pick that one to add to the package. When you look at what the Brewers have in the minor leagues in terms of pitching, the depth is actually quite impressive and frankly they aren't going to be able to keep all of them in the organization longterm.

[Madhawk23]

Am I the only one who thinks Arcia alone is way too much to give for 2 months of Machado? This would be the definition of selling low.

 

Nope. I’m right there with you. It would be doing the opposite of what I thought we were doing as an organization. I really was pumped to think we were headed in a different direction. A move like that makes me think Stearns will try to parlay this job into a larger market one.

 

Agreed. If you trade Arcia, after Machado walks, you are left with Dubon coming off a torn ACL, Saladino who has been fine, but doesn't come near profiling as anything more than average, and Miller, who would probably hit enough, but has defensive issues. I guess Villar could be moved back to SS, but I would imagine there is a reason he hasn't logged any time there since 2016.

 

If Machado is acquired, I think it would be with the understanding that Arcia would be back up as the main SS next year, hopefully after finding some plate discipline in AAA.

 

I agree. I can't see any logical reason why we would trade Arcia for Machado. We still need Arcia to find his hitting stroke down in AAA, so he can come back up eventually (whether it is this year or next year) and continue to be our SS for the next 4-5 years. We all know that Machado would just be a 2-3 month rental and then he'll be on his way to a big market team, so we need to keep Arcia on the roster.

[Roderick]

I'd hesitate to move Arcia this year - I think he deserves the chance to earn his everyday SS job back next year (if not sooner), and he's a great option to provide stellar defense at a very low cost for a few seasons until some of the other SS prospects at lower levels work their way up.

 

If some teams requests Arcia in a trade, that isn't going to hold me back. Yes, he may bounce back and hit, but I will take that risk if some team values him enough to ask for him.

 

You can find defensive SS for free (Saladino, Rivera).

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'd hesitate to move Arcia this year - I think he deserves the chance to earn his everyday SS job back next year (if not sooner), and he's a great option to provide stellar defense at a very low cost for a few seasons until some of the other SS prospects at lower levels work their way up.

 

If some teams requests Arcia in a trade, that isn't going to hold me back. Yes, he may bounce back and hit, but I will take that risk if some team values him enough to ask for him.

 

You can find defensive SS for free (Saladino, Rivera).

 

I agree with you. But that's because I don't think Arcia will ever be a compotent hitter. He is phenomenal defensively, but batting .220 doesn't justify that. To me, this is a case of Brewers fans really loving their own guy. I'm absolutely showing him the door for Manny Machado and a shot at a championship run. We'll find another SS who can't hit. If you're not willing to give up a guy who's been that bad for someone like Machado I don't think you'll be happy with any deal for him. I'd much rather give up Arcia, a guy who's at least had chances in MLB, than someone like Hiura, Burnes, etc.

 

I'm not saying Arcia won't ever be good, but I don't think he is, and we at least tried him out. That makes it easier for me to let go.

[KeithStone53151]

I'd hesitate to move Arcia this year - I think he deserves the chance to earn his everyday SS job back next year (if not sooner), and he's a great option to provide stellar defense at a very low cost for a few seasons until some of the other SS prospects at lower levels work their way up.

 

If some teams requests Arcia in a trade, that isn't going to hold me back. Yes, he may bounce back and hit, but I will take that risk if some team values him enough to ask for him.

 

You can find defensive SS for free (Saladino, Rivera).

 

You don't simply trade someone because you have depth. Should we throw every depth piece we have into the Machado trade and send over 10 players...just because we can? I feel like this is becoming a common theme on this board, guys willing to send over anybody and everybody that they consider depth.

 

Value matters far more than depth at a position. Obviously we should prefer to deal from positions of depth, but getting reasonable value is primary concern. Arcia alone is more valuable than Machado. He was very serviceable at the plate last year with the plus defense, sometimes guys simply have awful years. He also has the tools to be successful at the plate, so it's far too early to give up on him.

[SeaBass]

I'd hesitate to move Arcia this year - I think he deserves the chance to earn his everyday SS job back next year (if not sooner), and he's a great option to provide stellar defense at a very low cost for a few seasons until some of the other SS prospects at lower levels work their way up.

 

If some teams requests Arcia in a trade, that isn't going to hold me back. Yes, he may bounce back and hit, but I will take that risk if some team values him enough to ask for him.

 

You can find defensive SS for free (Saladino, Rivera).

 

I agree with you. But that's because I don't think Arcia will ever be a compotent hitter. He is phenomenal defensively, but batting .220 doesn't justify that. To me, this is a case of Brewers fans really loving their own guy. I'm absolutely showing him the door for Manny Machado and a shot at a championship run. We'll find another SS who can't hit. If you're not willing to give up a guy who's been that bad for someone like Machado I don't think you'll be happy with any deal for him. I'd much rather give up Arcia, a guy who's at least had chances in MLB, than someone like Hiura, Burnes, etc.

 

I'm not saying Arcia won't ever be good, but I don't think he is, and we at least tried him out. That makes it easier for me to let go.

I think it's too early to give up on Arcia. He doesn't need to be an All Star with the bat to help this team, he just needs to not be a black hole. His season last year was pretty close to enough, if he's done it once reason dictates he's capable of doing it again.

 

I frankly don't see a scenario where Arcia not being available becomes a deal breaker for a team the Brewers are negotiating with. The Brewers have many fine prospects, a team isn't going to walk away because they can't have the shortstop that hasn't been able to hit out of a wet paper bag this season.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

He's not saying trade someone because you have depth, he's accurately saying that Arcia hasn't shown anything at the MLB level to be in the same sentence as Manny Machado, and that the Brewers were able to get a player like Saladino to play defense for nothing.

 

It's about incremental value. Arcia may be terrific defensively but you can get good defense a lot easier than a great infield bat.

 

There seems to a ton of confidence around here that Arcia is going to find his stroke again. Or is it possible he's not capable of making adjustments? That has happened before in baseball.

 

Arcia alone is more valuable than Machado? If you're referring to the whole package i.e. the contract then maybe. Purely as a player, today? He's not even close. It's an other-worldly upgrade for this year's team. It's the classic mortgaging the future debate. If you give up Matt LaPorta it ends up not looking so bad later on. There is no way to know that now.

[KeithStone53151]

He's not saying trade someone because you have depth, he's accurately saying that Arcia hasn't shown anything at the MLB level to be in the same sentence as Manny Machado, and that the Brewers were able to get a player like Saladino to play defense for nothing.

 

It's about incremental value. Arcia may be terrific defensively but you can get good defense a lot easier than a great infield bat.

 

There seems to a ton of confidence around here that Arcia is going to find his stroke again. Or is it possible he's not capable of making adjustments? That has happened before in baseball.

 

Arcia alone is more valuable than Machado? If you're referring to the whole package i.e. the contract then maybe. Purely as a player, today? He's not even close. It's an other-worldly upgrade for this year's team. It's the classic mortgaging the future debate. If you give up Matt LaPorta it ends up not looking so bad later on. There is no way to know that now.

 

Of course Arcia isn't as good as Machado, from a contractual standpoint he holds more value though. And of course Arcia may not find it at the plate again, but it is probably more likely than not that he settles in as an above 700 ops hitter in due time. I'm willing to trade Arcia, but not for a rental. Maybe in a Realmuto trade but probably more likely in a Degrom trade. Value matters, you can't simply say "well we have depth...we can afford to trade him" and trade him. I could certainly pick out more posts than that one in this thread with a similar premise.

[bill hAll Star]

He's not saying trade someone because you have depth, he's accurately saying that Arcia hasn't shown anything at the MLB level to be in the same sentence as Manny Machado, and that the Brewers were able to get a player like Saladino to play defense for nothing.

 

It's about incremental value. Arcia may be terrific defensively but you can get good defense a lot easier than a great infield bat.

 

There seems to a ton of confidence around here that Arcia is going to find his stroke again. Or is it possible he's not capable of making adjustments? That has happened before in baseball.

 

Arcia alone is more valuable than Machado? If you're referring to the whole package i.e. the contract then maybe. Purely as a player, today? He's not even close. It's an other-worldly upgrade for this year's team. It's the classic mortgaging the future debate. If you give up Matt LaPorta it ends up not looking so bad later on. There is no way to know that now.

 

Jean Segura: Year 3 (age 24) .614 OPS

Brandon Crawford: Year 3 (age 26) .674 OPS

Orlando Arcia: Year 3 (age 23) .482 OPS - yes, that's terrible, but a pretty good season the year before it. He's not this bad.

Elvis Andrus: Year 3 (age 22) .708 OPS - He had 4 .650ish OPS seasona after this. He didn't truly start hitting until age 27 (year 8)

Andrelton Simmons: Year 3 (age 24) .617 OPS

 

Save for Arcia, these are all All Star bats with an .800+ OPS now after they've gotten to their 5th or so year.

 

If Stearns thinks Arcia's swing is irreparable, I'll take his word for it.

 

I'm not suggesting that Arcia is going to turn into one of these guys in year 5 but it seems like a lot of these guys get called up early for their glove and the bat trails it so I'm not writing Arcia off.

 

The final question is whether you want to wait until year 6 or 7 when he's about to need another contract. Another valid question.

[KeithStone53151]

He's not saying trade someone because you have depth, he's accurately saying that Arcia hasn't shown anything at the MLB level to be in the same sentence as Manny Machado, and that the Brewers were able to get a player like Saladino to play defense for nothing.

 

It's about incremental value. Arcia may be terrific defensively but you can get good defense a lot easier than a great infield bat.

 

There seems to a ton of confidence around here that Arcia is going to find his stroke again. Or is it possible he's not capable of making adjustments? That has happened before in baseball.

 

Arcia alone is more valuable than Machado? If you're referring to the whole package i.e. the contract then maybe. Purely as a player, today? He's not even close. It's an other-worldly upgrade for this year's team. It's the classic mortgaging the future debate. If you give up Matt LaPorta it ends up not looking so bad later on. There is no way to know that now.

 

Jean Segura: Year 3 (age 24) .614 OPS

Brandon Crawford: Year 3 (age 26) .674 OPS

Orlando Arcia: Year 3 (age 23) .482 OPS - yes, that's terrible, but a pretty good season the year before it. He's not this bad.

Elvis Andrus: Year 3 (age 22) .708 OPS - He had 4 .650ish OPS seasona after this. He didn't truly start hitting until age 27 (year 8)

Andrelton Simmons: Year 3 (age 24) .617 OPS

 

Save for Arcia, these are all All Star bats with an .800+ OPS now after they've gotten to their 5th or so year.

 

If Stearns thinks Arcia's swing is irreparable, I'll take his word for it.

 

I'm not suggesting that Arcia is going to turn into one of these guys in year 5 but it seems like a lot of these guys get called up early for their glove and the bat trails it.

 

The final question is whether you want to wait until year 6 or 7 when he's about to need another contract. Another valid question.

 

 

Yes, this. Also agree that if Stearns/CC/scouts think Arcia can't be fixed at the plate...now is the best time to trade him. But even if we are resigned to trading him, we are better off including him in a package for a more valuable player/contract than overpaying with him for Machado.

[reillymcshane]

For all of the angst about Machado's defense, he represents a massive upgrade at the SS position for Milwaukee. Arcia and Sogard were not good and awful - in that order. And Manny offers a huge upgrade at a underperforming position for us.

 

You might say, "What about Tyler Saladino?"

 

Saladino has been great this year. But that's 49 at bats. He's been active for what - a month? Let's not let one good month color realistic judgments on the guy (remember, Sogard parlayed a good month into a $2.4M contract this offseason and probably cost us a game or two all by himself this year).

 

Saladino hit .178 last season. To expect him to keep hitting at a .900+ OPS is unrealistic. His best OPS coming into this year was .725, so I don't expect him to suddenly hit like an all-star the rest of the season.

 

And hey, if Saladino suddenly does continue to perform - well you play him at 2B over Villar and Perez. Plus he can give Shaw some rest at 3B - and Machado at SS. It's not like he'd go to waste.

 

In the end, a below average defensive Machado is still a huge upgrade for Milwaukee. He hits with power, average, takes a lot of walks, and doesn't strike out a lot. Plus, with Manny in his contract walk season, in the heat of a pennant race -- that's the kind of thing that can get someone motivated - at bat and in the field.

 

So, despite the misgivings about Machado's glove, he's the exact kind of bat we can use.

[reillymcshane]

Also agree that if Stearns/CC/scouts think Arcia can't be fixed at the plate...now is the best time to trade him.

To me this is the big thing about Arcia. What does the braintrust think about his future? If they still believe in him, then we should hang onto him. That simple. Give him 2018 to work out his issues, and tell him to come into camp next season ready to seize control of the SS job. If they don't believe he'll ever do it, then a trade is fine. I just don't know the answer.

[tmwiese55]

Right, our key issue right now is offense and that's clear. Sometimes you have to give up in one area to get better in another. Your sacrificing some D for drastically better O. And that's what they need right now. If Cain/Yelich are healthy your OF D should still be considered fairly good.

[Austin Tatious]

I am not buying into the Arcia complaining. After hitting .277 with 15 HR last year, he has fallen off a cliff. There are many, many players who go through this phase. Heck, our own JJ Hardy fell off a cliff and then came back with a bang in due time.

 

Arcia is outstanding defensively, where he's a guy who is personally preventing runs. But he's a good athlete with good raw ability with the stick. I think he ends up being a good player, and I'd prefer it to be here. His problems are not physical limitations, but rather his whole approach and that he's lost all confidence. It's not uncommon. He's not recognizing pitches, he's pressing, he's swinging at bad pitches or attacking the pitch the wrong way (e.g., trying to pull low and outside pitches). I haven't charted it but pitches breaking on the outside of the plate have perplexed him. But if his approach becomes sound and he makes adjustments, he's got enough bat quickness and ability to hit decently. His problems are fixable.

 

I'd stick with him.

[bill hAll Star]

For all of the angst about Machado's defense, he represents a massive upgrade at the SS position for Milwaukee. Arcia and Sogard were not good and awful - in that order. And Manny offers a huge upgrade at a underperforming position for us.

 

You might say, "What about Tyler Saladino?"

 

Saladino has been great this year. But that's 49 at bats. He's been active for what - a month? Let's not let one good month color realistic judgments on the guy (remember, Sogard parlayed a good month into a $2.4M contract this offseason and probably cost us a game or two all by himself this year).

 

Saladino hit .178 last season. To expect him to keep hitting at a .900+ OPS is unrealistic. His best OPS coming into this year was .725, so I don't expect him to suddenly hit like an all-star the rest of the season.

 

And hey, if Saladino suddenly does continue to perform - well you play him at 2B over Villar and Perez. Plus he can give Shaw some rest at 3B - and Machado at SS. It's not like he'd go to waste.

 

In the end, a below average defensive Machado is still a huge upgrade for Milwaukee. He hits with power, average, takes a lot of walks, and doesn't strike out a lot. Plus, with Manny in his contract walk season, in the heat of a pennant race -- that's the kind of thing that can get someone motivated - at bat and in the field.

 

So, despite the misgivings about Machado's glove, he's the exact kind of bat we can use.

 

To me, Saladino is not the same as Sogard.

 

Sogard was a high draft pick but it was pretty clear what he was due to a long MLB career. OK defense at 2B and a ~.600 OPS. He hit some sort of miracle BABIP jackpot for 1 month. I don't know why Stearns brought him back at that, but I guess 2.5 million can arguably be the going rate for a utility guy.

 

Saladino is a plus or at least decent defensive SS. Sogard might've been at one point but is not really anymore. He has the frame to be a good power hitter. LouisEly mentioned that they brought his leg kick back. Yes, I am not rushing to judgment because only 50 ABs, though he has hit the ball hard or medium 85% of the time. He seems to be squaring the ball up.

 

Would I be shocked if they turned Saladino into a .750 power-leaning SS? No. He could definitely fizzle but that potential is there.

 

Would I have been shocked if Sogard remained a .750+ OPS hitter in his 30s with the Brewers? Yeah, probably.

[brewerfan82]

Sogard Pre-MIL (through age 29 season): 1331 PAs, .239/.295/.313/.609

Saladino Pre-MIL (through age 28 season): 863 PAs, .231/.281/.330/.610

 

I would only be a fraction of a bit less surprised to see Saladino continue his success as I would have been with Sogard. Definitely wouldn't count on it, but if it does continue, I'd much rather bank on him as a super utility than as a starter.

[KeithStone53151]

Can someone with access to these articles provide some cliff notes? I'm far too cheap to pay for the Athletic.

 

https://theathletic.com/427194/2018/07/10/rosenthal-as-machado-talks-heat-up-dodgers-and-brewers-haggle-with-orioles-over-the-price/

[bill hAll Star]

Sogard Pre-MIL (through age 29 season): 1331 PAs, .239/.295/.313/.609

Saladino Pre-MIL (through age 28 season): 863 PAs, .231/.281/.330/.610

 

I would only be a fraction of a bit less surprised to see Saladino continue his success as I would have been with Sogard. Definitely wouldn't count on it, but if it does continue, I'd much rather bank on him as a super utility than as a starter.

 

I definitely agree that all I really am counting on would be utility player out of him and anything more is a bonus.

 

However, Saladino had one terrible year that brought him down. He does seem very streaky, he was up-and-down in the minors.

 

Saladino's "lucky" run has included 4 HR already. Sogard hit 3 all of last season.

 

If they truly added the leg kick back and Saladino is getting hard contact very often, he was already had a pretty good eye at the plate. He has a bit more of a frame for power than Sogard. Therefore, 15 HR to go with .270/.330/.410 isn't out of line for him in a best case scenario. I see it as: What if Whit Merrifield was called up (and struggled) in his early/mid 20s like Saladino?

 

Of course, that's a very optimistic projection getting a bit excited about hard/medium contact rates in 50 ABs. Those could easily level out. He's also putting the ball in the air a bit more often than he used to. I think the fact that he can put the ball over the fence enough makes him a viable hitter if this added leg kick truly does allow him to keep hitting the ball hard often.

[chuckiehacks]

Can someone with access to these articles provide some cliff notes? I'm far too cheap to pay for the Athletic.

 

https://theathletic.com/427194/2018/07/10/rosenthal-as-machado-talks-heat-up-dodgers-and-brewers-haggle-with-orioles-over-the-price/

 

Basically, O's want Burnes from MKE or Lux or May from LAD. Both teams balking. MKE prefers to build a package around Phillips & Ortiz.

[Lathund]

Can someone with access to these articles provide some cliff notes? I'm far too cheap to pay for the Athletic.

 

https://theathletic.com/427194/2018/07/10/rosenthal-as-machado-talks-heat-up-dodgers-and-brewers-haggle-with-orioles-over-the-price/

 

With regards to the Brewers it says that Orioles want Burnes as the center piece of a deal, which the Brewers are unwilling to do, instead prefering to build a package around Ortiz and Phillips. From the Dodgers the Orioles are looking to acquire Gavin Lux, and the Dodgers aren't too keen on that. Other than that it talks a bit about the prospects in question, as well as the Dodgers interest in multiple other infielders.

[YelichPosse]

Can someone with access to these articles provide some cliff notes? I'm far too cheap to pay for the Athletic.

 

https://theathletic.com/427194/2018/07/10/rosenthal-as-machado-talks-heat-up-dodgers-and-brewers-haggle-with-orioles-over-the-price/

 

Basically, O's want Burnes from MKE or Lux or May from LAD. Both teams balking. MKE prefers to build a package around Phillips & Ortiz.

 

Sounds like we are in a good spot to offer them what they need, but more so under our conditions.

 

Where as LA has what they want and then a steep drop off.

 

I think we can get something done that will not hurt us long term. If it would hurt us, DS won't pull the trigger.

 

If they want Burnes... i would do Burnes straight up and that's it. But that's just me.

[Dadbauer]

It's a relief that Burnes *seems* safe. Honestly, we can do without one of Keon, Phillips, or Santana right now so that wouldn't hurt. Ortiz is also PRETTY far away still with a huge pile of prospects higher on the depth chart and honestly, his injuries and conditioning are red flags. Those two as a "centerpiece" would be ideal.

[Humans Need Water]

I wouldn't do Burnes at all for Machado. Ortiz + Phillips. That still sucks but I'd do it same as if Woodruff replaced Ortiz.