Manny Machado (Part 1)

[Boomer5]

How would we feel if we woke up to the news that the Cubs got him?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

How would we feel if we woke up to the news that the Cubs got him?

 

Well, obviously he sucks and they overpaid.

[pacopete4]

How would we feel if we woke up to the news that the Cubs got him?

 

I’d be fine with it. They’d deplete their farm even more and would be giving up on Russell who has been a better overall player this season.

[Roderick]

People are getting a little salty over this.

 

Machado can hit and we need hitting. It’s not that complicated.

 

More specifically, the Brewers need a SS who isn't an offensive black hole. The best available trade candidate happens to play SS. We are the ones making this complicated.

 

I think clubhouse chemistry is an important factor in a teams record. So making trades for tradings sake, like a playstation game I am leery of.

 

But, you also have to think that Machado will be thinking I get to show the league I can be a good guy in the next clubhouse right before the biggest payday. He would have to be a real bonehead to be anything close to a cancer for two plus months. i think that would come out in pre-trade investigation pretty easy.

[YelichPosse]

I don't know how excited I am about him now after reading up on his defense.

 

And about how he is just a shortstop. Not saying he is a Manny Ramirez type of selfish player, but he hasn't always been a model citizen.

 

There are some worries I have about him disrupting the "team" but hopefully his bat would make up for any of that.

 

Hearing LA possibly moving past him looking at other guys, and hearing the Yankees "maybe asking" (which means nothing - more or less a DUH!) makes me wonder if either a. we shouldnt even bother or b. we can actually get him cheaper - and if that is the case we will be waiting til closer to the deadline to be able to execute the trade.

 

I hate the waiting game. But know full well DS is doing his thing and will surprise us with some shiny new toys.. that won't cost horribly.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I don't know how excited I am about him now after reading up on his defense.

 

And about how he is just a shortstop. Not saying he is a Manny Ramirez type of selfish player, but he hasn't always been a model citizen.

 

There are some worries I have about him disrupting the "team" but hopefully his bat would make up for any of that.

 

Hearing LA possibly moving past him looking at other guys, and hearing the Yankees "maybe asking" (which means nothing - more or less a DUH!) makes me wonder if either a. we shouldnt even bother or b. we can actually get him cheaper - and if that is the case we will be waiting til closer to the deadline to be able to execute the trade.

 

I hate the waiting game. But know full well DS is doing his thing and will surprise us with some shiny new toys.. that won't cost horribly.

 

I would imagine that the longer the Orioles wait to deal him, the more his price goes down. Manny Machado on July 10 is much more valuable than Manny Machado on July 31. The longer they wait to deal him, the better for the Brewers. But, it also means they have to wait that much longer to get him in the lineup.

 

The Brewers have very good clubhouse chemistry and several veteran leaders who have earned that role. It would be a horrible business decision for Machado to come in and do anything to disrupt that.

[StearnsFTW]

Update on Britton:

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bs-sp-orioles-britton-brach-20180709-story.html

 

His salary still makes him a questionable fit for the Brewers IMO, but I thought I'd post this for the pro-Britton folks out there. Velocity has been back to normal in the last couple of appearance.

 

I had posted something similar a few pages back in this thread - the recent injuries (right achilles rupture, Dec 2017 and left forearm/knee soreness throughout the 2017 season) are still of concern. But the achilles is on his landing leg and the arm/knee toubles from last season appear to be behind him. As Britton continues to build up strength (he's basically gone through his spring training over this past month of MLB appearances due to the achilles recovery), there will be a high demand for him. I think the Orioles are foolish to try and package Britton with Machado, because they'd probably get better value by trading Machado before the AS Break, and then continuing to showcase Britton right up to the trade deadline to prove he's healthy and slightly lower what remaining 2018 salary he'd have.

 

If his velocity keeps creeping back into that 97-98 range, he'd be a stretch run difference maker at the back end of someone's bullpen.

 

I don't mind Britton if it's strictly a salary dump. Money is no object for this season. I'm giving up nothing for him though. Not a guy that can be counted on health-wise.

[YelichPosse]

I don't know how excited I am about him now after reading up on his defense.

 

And about how he is just a shortstop. Not saying he is a Manny Ramirez type of selfish player, but he hasn't always been a model citizen.

 

There are some worries I have about him disrupting the "team" but hopefully his bat would make up for any of that.

 

Hearing LA possibly moving past him looking at other guys, and hearing the Yankees "maybe asking" (which means nothing - more or less a DUH!) makes me wonder if either a. we shouldnt even bother or b. we can actually get him cheaper - and if that is the case we will be waiting til closer to the deadline to be able to execute the trade.

 

I hate the waiting game. But know full well DS is doing his thing and will surprise us with some shiny new toys.. that won't cost horribly.

 

I would imagine that the longer the Orioles wait to deal him, the more his price goes down. Manny Machado on July 10 is much more valuable than Manny Machado on July 31. The longer they wait to deal him, the better for the Brewers. But, it also means they have to wait that much longer to get him in the lineup.

 

The Brewers have very good clubhouse chemistry and several veteran leaders who have earned that role. It would be a horrible business decision for Machado to come in and do anything to disrupt that.

 

Agreed.

 

Do we think, after all the discussion, the defense, etc... that it's even "wise" to deal for him now? Or should we go for an Eduardo Escobar type guy who has an upside but may be lower downside as well.... and cost a lot less in the meantime.

[Boomer5]

How would we feel if we woke up to the news that the Cubs got him?

 

Well, obviously he sucks and they overpaid.

 

Obviously.

[Roderick]

 

I would imagine that the longer the Orioles wait to deal him, the more his price goes down. Manny Machado on July 10 is much more valuable than Manny Machado on July 31. The longer they wait to deal him, the better for the Brewers. But, it also means they have to wait that much longer to get him in the lineup.

 

You have to think that the Brewers have told the Orioles a date that the need to know by. I guess they could wait to the ASG, but don't see why any longer than that.

 

I hope/assume they have had talks with Minnesota about Escobar and are leveraging that. He doesn't have the track record of hitting as well as this year and he has done much better at home historically. Still be an improvement if he falls back to a .750 OPS guy. Acquire him with much less cost. Switch hitter. Could take a few days at 3B for Shaw. I assume Escobar's defense is similar to or better than Machado at SS.

 

Plus the Twins should want the Brewers to be good, right. Sell more tickets for those crossover games.

[JohnBriggs12]

The same guys saying Machado would be disruptive in the clubhouse warned last year that Swarzak was despised by his teammates. That's a complete non factor. One guy doesn't come in and set the tone for a clubhouse. He'd be welcomed with open arms because the remainder of the team knows what impact he'd have. Even the guys like Miller and Saladino who he'd be taking some AB's from, realize there's no shame in losing PT to Machado, and they'll still be in the team's plans for 2019, especially if Arcia is included in the deal.

[homer]

Found this on Twitter :

 

“I’m a shortstop. I play shortstop.” - Manny Machado, when asked if he’d move back to third base if traded to contender.

 

I guess we're all shortstops.

 

 

je suis shortstop

[StearnsFTW]

 

I would imagine that the longer the Orioles wait to deal him, the more his price goes down. Manny Machado on July 10 is much more valuable than Manny Machado on July 31. The longer they wait to deal him, the better for the Brewers. But, it also means they have to wait that much longer to get him in the lineup.

 

You have to think that the Brewers have told the Orioles a date that the need to know by. I guess they could wait to the ASG, but don't see why any longer than that.

 

I hope/assume they have had talks with Minnesota about Escobar and are leveraging that. He doesn't have the track record of hitting as well as this year and he has done much better at home historically. Still be an improvement if he falls back to a .750 OPS guy. Acquire him with much less cost. Switch hitter. Could take a few days at 3B for Shaw. I assume Escobar's defense is similar to or better than Machado at SS.

 

Plus the Twins should want the Brewers to be good, right. Sell more tickets for those crossover games.

 

Escobar is also a bad shortstop. But nowhere near Machado-bad. At least based on this year's small sample. He's also only playing shortstop about a quarter of the time.

[travisteck]

Manny is a a generational talent that plays infield. He's harper but at short/third.. Or better than harper imo.

 

Why is he a bad clubhouse guy? Because of the thing against the A's when he was 21 years old, or when he got a 99mph pitch thrown at his back by a notorious hot head pitcher and charged the mound?

 

Comparing him to Escobar or Miller isn't really doing him justice. In 15&16 Machado was worth more WAR than those two combined for their careers. He'd have the highest oWAR of anyone on the team by a full win. Defense obviously isn't the best but that bat in this lineup will be one of the more ridiculous 1-6 I can remember in recent history.

[tmwiese55]

Machado is great, don't get me wrong here. But pump the brakes a tad, he has never hit like this season before in his career.

 

Last year he hit 259/310 and has never had an obp obove .359 or an OPS above 876. For being able to play infield he's still great of course, but he's never really put the whole package together offensively until this year and it's being hurt by him insisting to play SS and doing terrible at it. Just trying to keep it in perspective a bit.

[Humans Need Water]

Machado is great, don't get me wrong here. But pump the brakes a tad, he has never hit like this season before in his career.

 

Last year he hit 259/310 and has never had an obp obove .359 or an OPS above 876. For being able to play infield he's still great of course, but he's never really put the whole package together offensively until this year and it's being hurt by him insisting to play SS and doing terrible at it. Just trying to keep it in perspective a bit.

He literally just turned 26. Like 4 days ago. He's about to *enter* his prime

[tmwiese55]

Yea, still very good but not 'generational talent' level good and in the game of baseball it's tough to trust that a half season of stats is going to translate long term. In our situation, sure I'm all for him for the half year. But if I'm the one handing him 400 mil a year after he just put up a 310 OBP I'm probably a bit worried what's realistic going forward.

 

For comp: Harper had a 1.1 OPS at age 22 and 1.0 at age 24. Trout: has never been below 939.

 

And for a clearly really good player but not generational talent like Braun at 23-25 he had OPS of 1.0 .888 and .937.

 

Machado though can play 3B which has value of course but again, this is his first time he's put it fully together offensively and it's only been a half season in his contract year. Maybe this is him going forward but it also wouldn't surprise me if he's a 270/330 guy with 30 HRs going forward. Again, still very good player but not something crazy ridiculous and worth 40 mil per year and a 300-400 mil commitment. I mean, we just kicked Santana's 280/370 30 HRs to the curb.

[SeaBass]

They wanted to know if he would be okay filling in for Shaw against lefties and/or defensive double switches. Well, that was answered by the man himself.

 

 

I don't know if that specific question was answered, though. He was asked what position he would like to play if traded, not whether he's open to shifting over to 3B in late-inning situations or spot starting there 1-2 times a week.

 

All we can do is go by his words. So far it’s that he’s a shortstop. He plays shortstop.

I think he's really focused on being perceived as a SS for when he hits free agency. I don't think it has as much to do with what position he ends up playing once he's traded. I remember reading something a week or so ago of him answering a similar question saying something along the lines of whatever happens when he's traded happens, but when he becomes a free agent he will be a SS for the team he signs with. It's his presidential talking point, if you will.

 

Clearly his only choice would be to throw a tantrum and sit out if he gets traded to say Cleveland where there's zero chance of him displacing Lindor. Doing that would only hurt his earning power in free agency, I just don't see it happening.

[KeithStone53151]

Yea, still very good but not 'generational talent' level good and in the game of baseball it's tough to trust that a half season of stats is going to translate long term. In our situation, sure I'm all for him for the half year. But if I'm the one handing him 400 mil a year after he just put up a 310 OBP I'm probably a bit worried what's realistic going forward.

 

For comp: Harper had a 1.1 OPS at age 22 and 1.0 at age 24. Trout: has never been below 939.

 

And for a clearly really good player but not generational talent like Braun at 23-25 he had OPS of 1.0 .888 and .937.

 

Machado though can play 3B which has value of course but again, this is his first time he's put it fully together offensively and it's only been a half season in his contract year. Maybe this is him going forward but it also wouldn't surprise me if he's a 270/330 guy with 30 HRs going forward. Again, still very good player but not something crazy ridiculous and worth 40 mil per year and a 300-400 mil commitment. I mean, we just kicked Santana's 280/370 30 HRs to the curb.

 

Being a contract year is mostly irrelevant, in fact I'd argue it's beneficial. If we trade for him, I would hope he mashes the rest of the year in hopes of increasing his appeal for the big contract. I hope he overachieves on his true talent level at the plate, and improves defensively as he knows he has to if he's going to stick at SS. It's not like we are giving up immense talent for 2+ years of him in a career year and he may regress. All signs point to us getting a below average defender with a 900+ ops for the 2nd half of the season if we in fact acquire Machado.

 

I'll also add regarding his comments about SS, there's a sound bite in the interview where he says he'll play wherever asked if traded to a contender. I don't think we'd have issue with him potentially playing some 3b on occasion. I still don't think he has a great attitude and feels like a me-first player, but it's probably worth the risk...by all accounts the clubhouse is in a fantastic place and I doubt Machado significantly impacts that.

[tmwiese55]

Yup, for our purposes the stuff I'm pointing out is irrelevant other than in keeping the prospects given in perspective. Contract year stuff, being hot now or just in an outlier year for him, whether it's sustainable, etc. Yea who cares long term, we just need him to do it for 100 more games. I think I had a line like that in one of those posts.

[Humans Need Water]

Yea, still very good but not 'generational talent' level good and in the game of baseball it's tough to trust that a half season of stats is going to translate long term. In our situation, sure I'm all for him for the half year. But if I'm the one handing him 400 mil a year after he just put up a 310 OBP I'm probably a bit worried what's realistic going forward.

 

For comp: Harper had a 1.1 OPS at age 22 and 1.0 at age 24. Trout: has never been below 939.

 

And for a clearly really good player but not generational talent like Braun at 23-25 he had OPS of 1.0 .888 and .937.

 

Machado though can play 3B which has value of course but again, this is his first time he's put it fully together offensively and it's only been a half season in his contract year. Maybe this is him going forward but it also wouldn't surprise me if he's a 270/330 guy with 30 HRs going forward. Again, still very good player but not something crazy ridiculous and worth 40 mil per year and a 300-400 mil commitment. I mean, we just kicked Santana's 280/370 30 HRs to the curb.

I never said he was a generational talent but if we're speaking about players at certain positions he's absolutely a generational talent for 3b. My comment about his age was in response to you singling out last year's production and nit picking OBP/OPS comparing it to single seasons for Trout and Harper making Machado's production thus far, in general, seem insignificant when it's the opposite, especially for his age. Machado's 2015/2016 he posted OPS+ of 132 and 130 then dropped last year (still above avg) and now everything has clicked this year. Also, Harper's OPS+ over 3 of the past 5yrs is 111, 114, 125 (this year). And Machado is *significantly* better defensively (3b) than Harper (RF).

 

Santana was bumped out of RF because Stearns wants to compete now and wants all-around players with good bat to ball skills. Defense and bat to ball skills have been issues for Santana. He has a very good eye and patience at the plate but his Ks tend to come from lack of bat to ball skills as opposed to swinging at garbage. But, yeah, I'm sure it was because his offensive numbers last year weren't good enough...

[Point Beer Is Best]

I'd rather part with Broxton or Santana for obvious reasons. I love Phillips left-handedness, defense, and that he's controllable for longer.

 

I like Phillips, too.

 

But at this point, Corey Ray has it put together, and the Crew also has Troy Stokes.

 

I could live with Phillips, Arcia, and Ortiz for Machado and international bonus money.

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks Arcia alone is way too much to give for 2 months of Machado? This would be the definition of selling low.

[pacopete4]

Am I the only one who thinks Arcia alone is way too much to give for 2 months of Machado? This would be the definition of selling low.

 

Nope. I’m right there with you. It would be doing the opposite of what I thought we were doing as an organization. I really was pumped to think we were headed in a different direction. A move like that makes me think Stearns will try to parlay this job into a larger market one.

[kfizz]

Am I the only one who thinks Arcia alone is way too much to give for 2 months of Machado? This would be the definition of selling low.

 

I agree with you. Way too early to give up on the kid. He was really valuable last year. Not really a surplus position either. I'd be OK giving up outfielders and non-Burnes pitching.

[StearnsFTW]

Am I the only one who thinks Arcia alone is way too much to give for 2 months of Machado? This would be the definition of selling low.

 

Nope. I’m right there with you. It would be doing the opposite of what I thought we were doing as an organization. I really was pumped to think we were headed in a different direction. A move like that makes me think Stearns will try to parlay this job into a larger market one.

 

I agree on Arcia. I'm not trading him for Machado.

 

I have no idea what your last sentence means.