Manny Machado (Part 1)

[Boomer5]

Everything I’m seeing suggests Woodruff, Phillips, and Brown for Machado plus possibly Britton?

 

Brown getting scratched hours from his start plus the same thing happening to Woodruff can’t possibly be innings control. Clearly they had them ready to start and nothing about their innings totals changed prior to tonight.

[danzig6767]

Crazy the difference. He is a gold glove 3B with incredible range there. Slide back to his original home at SS & all of that is gone.

 

1. He's bulked up since he entered MLB

 

2. Thirdbase and shortstop are entirely different positions. The amount of ground a shortstop is asked to cover compared to 3rd is night and day. A player at thirdbase also isn't asked to turn double plays where footwork and athleticism matters a lot. Having to make catches on flares into the outfield that a guy playing thirdbase just stands and watches.

 

Machado is built more like an NFL safety now than the smooth smaller athletes who play well at shortstop.

[markedman5]

Brown is pitching

 

[PeaveyFury]

Thank you for posting that Danzig. Like I mentioned earlier, the boards lost their minds when Miller was traded to get some reps at SS. Well here’s Machado and he’s worse defensively but here’s our farm. Makes no sense to me.

 

Because it's not really similar in terms of offense- Amazingly, Miller is nearly as bad as Machado (-1.5-2 defensive WAR) at SS, but is only worth 2.5-3.5 with his bat. That means Miller is only +0.5-+2 net, Machado could be +4 assuming no defensive improvement....

[HarveysWBs]

Brown is pitching tonight after all—false alarm.

 

[82brewcrew82]

Brown is pitching tonight after all—false alarm.

 

Hmm, deal fell through?

[HarveysWBs]

Edged me out on the scoop about Brown—nice work.

[HarveysWBs]

Brown is pitching tonight after all—false alarm.

 

Hmm, deal fell through?

 

This all sounds like people wanting to see something that wasn’t quite there. As a previous poster mentioned, I would think O scouts would want a look at him tonight.

[Jenkins5]

Crazy the difference. He is a gold glove 3B with incredible range there. Slide back to his original home at SS & all of that is gone.

 

1. He's bulked up since he entered MLB

 

2. Thirdbase and shortstop are entirely different positions. The amount of ground a shortstop is asked to cover compared to 3rd is night and day. A player at thirdbase also isn't asked to turn double plays where footwork and athleticism matters a lot. Having to make catches on flares into the outfield that a guy playing thirdbase just stands and watches.

 

Machado is built more like an NFL safety now than the smooth smaller athletes who play well at shortstop.

 

He started 45 games at SS in 2016 and was at least average & solid there. UZR/150 of 1.4. Not incredible but solid. Not the -15.5 UZR/150 he has this season ( double the amount of games than 2016)

[82brewcrew82]

Brown is pitching tonight after all—false alarm.

 

Hmm, deal fell through?

 

This all sounds like people wanting to see something that wasn’t quite there. As a previous poster mentioned, I would think O scouts would want a look at him tonight.

Yeah, I shoulda put that in blue.

[Jenkins5]

I’d take a nice clunker by Brown tonight. Much prefer he stays a Brewer.

[markedman5]

Brown is pitching

 

[Boomer5]

Maybe I’m going to just wait until July 31st. Endless speculation and false “reporting” will not do any of us any good.

[SRB]

Food for thought:

 

ZiPS RoS Manny Machado: .359 wOBA

ZiPS RoS Brad Miller: .338 wOBA

 

Seriously?

 

Those are the numbers, I didn't make them up.

 

Machado hitting #3 would be incredible fun, but he is allegedly a terrible defender at SS and there's reason to worry his bat is not a huge upgrade over internal options.

[jerichoholicninja]

Crazy the difference. He is a gold glove 3B with incredible range there. Slide back to his original home at SS & all of that is gone.

 

1. He's bulked up since he entered MLB

 

2. Thirdbase and shortstop are entirely different positions. The amount of ground a shortstop is asked to cover compared to 3rd is night and day. A player at thirdbase also isn't asked to turn double plays where footwork and athleticism matters a lot. Having to make catches on flares into the outfield that a guy playing thirdbase just stands and watches.

 

Machado is built more like an NFL safety now than the smooth smaller athletes who play well at shortstop.

 

Also could be not putting full effort into it playing for the worst team in baseball. Why would he risk injuring himself before his big payday for a potential 100 game loser and a team he has zero future with?

[TURBO]

My guess for an offer is Machado for Broxton and Woodruff. Might take another player, such as Wilkerson.

 

All three could step into their line up right now, and while none is going to be a superstar, they are the kinds of guys they should take chances on and ride out the good and bad times.

 

Just a guess.

 

I would make that deal in a heartbeat! Oh how I wish it were so...

[JosephC]

I think the Britton suggestion is terrible. The guy is coming back from injury and has been nothing but bad so far. 5.06 ERA, 5.09 FIP, 1.41 WHIP, 5.9 walks per 8 innings. Fastball velocity down from 96.1 to 94.0. And the guy is making 12 million dollars this year. Trade for him now and the Brewers are on the hook for a bit under 6 million...plus the just under 8 million for Machado. No thanks.

[TURBO]

Oh no doubt. Woodruff is a real prospect and I guy I wouldn’t just give up on based on a small sample of MLB results.

 

Still this is Machado we are talking about so we will have to give up quality. Woodruff by all measures seems to be our 4th best prospect if you include Peralta still in that category.

 

Sorry, I guess I'm just getting antsy. I don't get how some posters are ready to throw Woodruff, Broxton and more at Machado, while the same guys are saying Burnes is untouchable. I mean is it simply because Burnes is less known? Both have solid middle of the rotation profiles. Woodruff is about 20 months older than Burnes. I mean, it's gotta be because Woodruff has ben kicking around the system longer, and already has MLB experience, right? Are we going to be looking at Burnes the same way at this time next year if he doesn't dominate at the MLB level? To me the two are interchangeable.

 

We are going to HAVE to give up something to get Machado. If Woodruff gets it done, hen itneeds to get done. If it's Burnes, most would rather not go that route. It is what it is, but someone is going to have to go, and if it is between Peralta, Burnes and Woodruff, I'd say bye bye Woodruff, like right now.

[Jenkins5]

I’d take a nice clunker by Brown tonight. Much prefer he stays a Brewer.

[tmwiese55]

I think the Britton suggestion is terrible. The guy is coming back from injury and has been nothing but bad so far. 5.06 ERA, 5.09 FIP, 1.41 WHIP, 5.9 walks per 8 innings. Fastball velocity down from 96.1 to 94.0. And the guy is making 12 million dollars this year. Trade for him now and the Brewers are on the hook for a bit under 6 million...plus the just under 8 million for Machado. No thanks.

 

I agree because of the money. Baseball wise he has a solid track record and he's only been scored on in two games this year, just has so few innings that it inflates the era. but that's because he's coming off an injury and in our situation do we really want to risk a guy coming off an injury, I don't think so. I guess I'm just saying I'd pass too but it won't surprise me if he ends up with fine numbers to finish the year. Just wouldn't want the risk and to pay that money

[SRB]

Britton has actually looked quite good overall. He had one bad game (0.1 IP, 4 ER) and gave up 3 BB in his first game back while he was still shaking off the rust. Other than that he's been excellent.

 

Obviously there needs to be an injury discount but you're talking about a guy who is arguably the best left-handed RP in all of baseball (now behind Hader?) when healthy.

[TURBO]

Man, I'm going to be unhappy if the give up Brown in addition to Woodruff. And Phillips as well?

 

No way from me.

 

I'm fine with Woodruff and a couple fliers, but that's it for me. And I understand that probably won't get it done.

 

Edit: Also, they can keep Zach Britton. Yuck.

 

Agreed, No Zack Brown!!! No way, no how if we are already doing Woodruff.

 

I have zero interest in Britton, unless it is a complete salary dump on their part. I don't want to offer them another piece for Britton. Nothing.

[JosephC]

Keep this in mind if we got Machado to play at shortstop

 

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2018/7/5/17536062/baltimore-orioles-worst-defense-manny-machado-adam-jones

 

The other chief offender is the Orioles’ best player, Manny Machado, who while enjoying his best-ever season at the plate is also en route to the worst defensive season on record. Not just his own worst defensive season—the worst for any player, at any position (positional adjustments aside). Machado has already reached negative-20 DRS this year—that’s the second-worst total at any position in 2018, on a list that also includes Jones and Mancini in the bottom five—and is thus on pace to hit nearly negative-40 for the season. Since 2002, the worst single-season DRS total is negative-33, for Matt Kemp in 2010; only six players have gone even 30 runs under.

 

At his current pace, Machado will likely finish the season providing six-plus wins of offensive value while taking away two-plus wins on defense. The list of previous players who completed that dual feat includes notoriously bat-rich, glove-poor shortstops Hanley Ramírez and Michael Young and then a coterie of corner sluggers largely uninterested in the demands of defense. Machado might think he’s regular-season LeBron James now (in more ways than one).

 

Machado moved from third base to shortstop this year, but he didn’t bring his range with him. As Mark Simon from Sports Info Solutions, the parent company that oversees DRS, wrote last month, “Most shortstops who are bad at fielding the ball in one area are average or above at fielding balls in the other direction. But Machado is far below average in both,” routinely missing balls to both his left and right.

 

He clearly can rake, but he'd be really bad defensively. I'd like hm more if he had a need at thirdbase instead of shortstop.

 

There is just no question that Machado is a far, far, far better fit at third base and a team that would acquire him to play third base would probably be willing to give up more. I really thought Boston would jump in but Devers did better in June (although he's off to a bad start in July). A couple weeks ago I thought the Indians would jump in, bounce Ramirez to 2B and bench Kipnis but now Kipnis has started to do better with the bat. Of the seven teams that were reported to be interested, I'm guessing only the Indians and Braves would having him playing some at third base (but would probably still see most of his at-bat's at shortstop with Atlanta).

[Jenkins5]

As for Woodruff vs. Burnes.... I just like Corbin’s profile better. I often say he reminds me of Chase Anderson (when Chase is on & velocity is up). Woodruff I see a lot of Jimmy Nelson. Big difference is Burnes has had outstanding command of almost all of his pitches since joining Brewers & Woodruff losses it for stretches. While Woodruff throws gas, it is pretty hittable gas like Wily Peralta. Since Spring when up, he has had more issues with commanding his fastball than he has in past. He needs to hit spots with it. When he does, he is really tough! Has very nice breaking ball he can play off of with it. Burnes can just attack with 3-4 pitches in all counts & also has strong enough velocity.

 

I like both pitchers & prefer to keep both but Woodruff is #3 on depth chart behind Peralta & Burnes now. Trust Burnes being stronger & more consistent member of rotation over Woodruff

[markedman5]

Yankees now showing interest per Rosenthal