Manny Machado (Part 1)

[Humans Need Water]

Prospects are only prospects until they aren’t. Woodruff hasn’t had success at the MLB level and even the Brewers themselves seem to have soured on him with the likes of Wilkerson getting innings over him. That is puzzling because Wilkerson isn’t our future so there is zero reason to have him starting July games in a pennant race over a top 100 prospect.

 

Yes it’s very small sample size and many pitchers look horrible in their first year. Burnes tore it up until he got to CS. I will say moving him to the pen seemed like an odd move considering we really need him to be a starter so I’m wondering about Milwaukee’s thinking here with him.

 

As for Machado, he is the best hitting infielder in the game at a position of need for us. I was reading that a WS win can be worth around $100M to a team, and a WS appearance over $50M, so for that I’d give up a good talent if I’m the Brewers.

I agree with that if you disregard 5 of his 8 starts last year and everything this year (outside of his Coors start) that he hasn't had success at the MLB level.

 

The Brewers were most likely already involved in talks with the Os at the time they made their decision to bring up Wilkerson as 24-48hrs later Woodruff was scratched from his start (ie they could have known they'd have to go down that path of having Woodruff in the deal so didn't want to risk injury). Peralta is already up. Burnes already transitioned to the pen. Therefore Wilkerson is literally the next dude in line to start combined with him throwing well at AAA since he came back from his injury to start the season.

 

Burnes is tearing it up on the road in the PCL. He throws 93-97 with 3 good secondary pitches and has more control than Woodruff. He projects to be better down the road as a result. When you have Peralta/Burnes in front of Woodruff and Ortiz/Brown behind him why not use him to land Machado? It's not that they're sour on him it's all of this combined. There's only so many spots for all these guys so they have to be traded. Ortiz/Brown are the farthest away so maybe they're in the deal instead of Woodruff

[Boomer5]

Woodruff has had several good games at the MLB level. He's had a couple stinkers too. But I'd basically call 6 of his 8 starts last year as good/quality whatever you want to say for that he did his job at least at a passable level. Take out the last game of the year where gave up 6 runs and his numbers look drastically different. Take out his one start at Col this year and his number look way different. His last two starts here he went 5 innings 2 runs, and 4 innings 0 runs. I guess I'm just saying that in his first 10ish starts he hasn't looked overwhelmed to me and has held his own, it's not really fair to expect someone to dominate immediately. I took Nelson like 1.5 years to figure it out at this level and he was a couple years older, Woodruff reminds me of him quite a bit. And his fastball has hit 99 this year.

 

I’m not down on Woodruff at all. Baseball history is full of quality pitchers having mediocre starts to their careers.

 

But if I’m the Orioles I would need a really good answer why we are stating Wilkerson in an important game over a top 100 prospect who should be more than ready.

[Boomer5]

Prospects are only prospects until they aren’t. Woodruff hasn’t had success at the MLB level and even the Brewers themselves seem to have soured on him with the likes of Wilkerson getting innings over him. That is puzzling because Wilkerson isn’t our future so there is zero reason to have him starting July games in a pennant race over a top 100 prospect.

 

Yes it’s very small sample size and many pitchers look horrible in their first year. Burnes tore it up until he got to CS. I will say moving him to the pen seemed like an odd move considering we really need him to be a starter so I’m wondering about Milwaukee’s thinking here with him.

 

As for Machado, he is the best hitting infielder in the game at a position of need for us. I was reading that a WS win can be worth around $100M to a team, and a WS appearance over $50M, so for that I’d give up a good talent if I’m the Brewers.

I agree with that if you disregard 5 of his 8 starts last year and everything this year (outside of his Coors start) that he hasn't had success at the MLB level.

 

The Brewers were most likely already involved in talks with the Os at the time they made their decision to bring up Wilkerson as 24-48hrs later Woodruff was scratched from his start (ie they could have known they'd have to go down that path of having Woodruff in the deal so didn't want to risk injury). Peralta is already up. Burnes already transitioned to the pen. Therefore Wilkerson is literally the next dude in line to start combined with him throwing well at AAA since he came back from his injury to start the season.

 

Burnes is tearing it up on the road in the PCL. He throws 93-97 with 3 good secondary pitches and has more control than Woodruff. He projects to be better down the road as a result. When you have Peralta/Burnes in front of Woodruff and Ortiz/Brown behind him why not use him to land Machado? It's not that they're sour on him it's all of this combined. There's only so many spots for all these guys so they have to be traded. Ortiz/Brown are the farthest away so maybe they're in the deal instead of Woodruff

 

Many of us suggested that was the reason he was bumped for such an obvious spot start.

 

I do think he is going in a trade for Machado. The issue is the 2nd/3rd pieces.

[Humans Need Water]

Woodruff has had several good games at the MLB level. He's had a couple stinkers too. But I'd basically call 6 of his 8 starts last year as good/quality whatever you want to say for that he did his job at least at a passable level. Take out the last game of the year where gave up 6 runs and his numbers look drastically different. Take out his one start at Col this year and his number look way different. His last two starts here he went 5 innings 2 runs, and 4 innings 0 runs. I guess I'm just saying that in his first 10ish starts he hasn't looked overwhelmed to me and has held his own, it's not really fair to expect someone to dominate immediately. I took Nelson like 1.5 years to figure it out at this level and he was a couple years older, Woodruff reminds me of him quite a bit. And his fastball has hit 99 this year.

 

I’m not down on Woodruff at all. Baseball history is full of quality pitchers having mediocre starts to their careers.

 

But if I’m the Orioles I would need a really good answer why we are stating Wilkerson in an important game over a top 100 prospect who should be more than ready.

Why? Who cares what the Brewers do - if that decision impacts another GMs thought-process then they're weak minded. Do your own homework and due diligence and have your own opinion/believes on a player rather than rely on what other GMs think/do toward a certain player. If Ortiz was in another org I guarantee he would already have 100 innings in AAA. Instead we keep him in AA because he's young still and can afford to work on certain things before being let loose. Would you want to know why Stearns keeps him in AA after this being his 3rd year there?

[homer]

Woodruff has had several good games at the MLB level. He's had a couple stinkers too. But I'd basically call 6 of his 8 starts last year as good/quality whatever you want to say for that he did his job at least at a passable level. Take out the last game of the year where gave up 6 runs and his numbers look drastically different. Take out his one start at Col this year and his number look way different. His last two starts here he went 5 innings 2 runs, and 4 innings 0 runs. I guess I'm just saying that in his first 10ish starts he hasn't looked overwhelmed to me and has held his own, it's not really fair to expect someone to dominate immediately. I took Nelson like 1.5 years to figure it out at this level and he was a couple years older, Woodruff reminds me of him quite a bit. And his fastball has hit 99 this year.

 

I’m not down on Woodruff at all. Baseball history is full of quality pitchers having mediocre starts to their careers.

 

But if I’m the Orioles I would need a really good answer why we are stating Wilkerson in an important game over a top 100 prospect who should be more than ready.

Why? Who cares what the Brewers do - if that decision impacts another GMs thought-process then they're weak minded.

 

Well it is the Orioles....

[Humans Need Water]

lol agree on that. but not the point...

[MilwaukeeBeers]

Just saw from Brewers Farm (great twitter account highly recommend a follow if you're not) Zack Brown isn't pitching tonight. Couple that with some oddness around Woodruff plus us becoming "favorites". Not to mention those are the type of guys the O's are reportedly targeting. I think it's fair to say somethings up.

[Boomer5]

If the Brewers would rather start a guy like Wilkerson over one of their top major league ready prospects that would raise a lot of red flags to everyone, yes even the Orioles.

 

The decision was so eyebrow raising that most suggested the trade scenario.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

Jerry Crasnick just tweeted Brett Phillips could be a piece in a potential trade.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The price will be brutal but can anyone honestly they'd be upset with getting him? It's a rental, but it's a hell of a rental. If we win the NL it's worth it. Exciting times.

[StCroixCtyBrewer]

Jerry Crasnick just tweeted Brett Phillips could be a piece in a potential trade.

It seems like the things that are now leaking or are beginning to get more specific. It really seems like this might be close.

[KeithStone53151]

Phillips and Woodruff makes a bit more sense than Broxton and Woodruff. Phillips is a better prospect and more likely to be a solid regular than Broxton, but right now Broxton helps us more. We would be trading away an 80 grade laugh though...

[Humans Need Water]

If the Brewers would rather start a guy like Wilkerson over one of their top major league ready prospects that would raise a lot of red flags to everyone, yes even the Orioles.

 

The decision was so eyebrow raising that most suggested the trade scenario.

Hypothetically, if Woodruff is involved in the deal for Machado and the Os are high on him and we're close to potentially landing him then why would you go ahead and spot start Woodruff and risk him blowing out his elbow. What would that accomplish? Wilkerson is more than capable of spot starting. I don't get why that's difficult to comprehend - it has nothing to do with red flags around Woodruff and everything to do with not risking injury on the 11th hour of a trade for one of the best players in the game. Zack Brown was just scratched from his start - do the Brewers think he has all these red flags too all of a sudden?

[Bnowell4evr]

If the Brewers would rather start a guy like Wilkerson over one of their top major league ready prospects that would raise a lot of red flags to everyone, yes even the Orioles.

 

The decision was so eyebrow raising that most suggested the trade scenario.

 

It suggests that Wilkerson is considered a capable pitcher... Who's to say the Orioles aren't interested in Wilkerson & Woodruff? Wilkerson has a 3.74 FIP in the majors, albeit a very small sample size.

[JackNicholson1974]

Woodruff, Phillips and Zack Brown? yeah, Id do it.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Phillips and Woodruff makes a bit more sense than Broxton and Woodruff. Phillips is a better prospect and more likely to be a solid regular than Broxton, but right now Broxton helps us more. We would be trading away an 80 grade laugh though...

 

If the price is Phillips and Woodruff, anything else better be a low-level prospect or an organizational soldier-type. Maybe they'd want Jake Hager or Dylan Moore to plug in at SS the rest of the season? I'd be very hesitant to include Arcia along with Phillips and Woodruff.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Woodruff, Phillips and Zack Brown? yeah, Id do it.

 

That's a big haul for the Orioles, but I guess I'd swallow it if it made the Brewers the favorites in the NL this year. Tough to lose all three of those guys.

[Humans Need Water]

Woodruff, Phillips and Zack Brown? yeah, Id do it.

I would call that a massive overpay. There's no way I'd part with 2 of Woodruff/Ortiz/Brown. Woodruff/Phillips would be difficult to part with but at least they're at positions of strength/depth so it's easier to swallow

[mattyo]

Woodruff, Phillips and Zack Brown? yeah, Id do it.

I would call that a massive overpay. There's no way I'd part with 2 of Woodruff/Ortiz/Brown. Woodruff/Phillips would be difficult to part with but at least they're at positions of strength/depth so it's easier to swallow

 

I'd do this deal in a heartbeat. No qualms about getting rid of Phillips because like you said, we have that OF depth.

 

Reminder: We're talking about a borderline MVP-level player at arguably our biggest position of need. And we would be doing it without giving up one of our top 3 prospects.

[Boomer5]

Phillips and Woodruff makes a bit more sense than Broxton and Woodruff. Phillips is a better prospect and more likely to be a solid regular than Broxton, but right now Broxton helps us more. We would be trading away an 80 grade laugh though...

 

If the price is Phillips and Woodruff, anything else better be a low-level prospect or an organizational soldier-type. Maybe they'd want Jake Hager or Dylan Moore to plug in at SS the rest of the season? I'd be very hesitant to include Arcia along with Phillips and Woodruff.

 

I can be swayed either way on this. I think we all know Peralta and Hiura are off the table but who knows the rest?

 

JDM was acquired for very little while Chapman and CC went for a lot. I’d say phrases like “just a rental” are reserved for Walker and Swarzak. Machado is very possibly the difference between a pennant and watching the Cubs on tv in October.

 

54 wins before ASB is no joke and we do need to put our foot on the gas. Who knows when we will see this again?

[Boomer5]

Crasnick reporting Phillips is possible piece.

[wibadgers23]

Woodruff, Brown, Phillips for Machado and Britton?

[chuckiehacks]

Woodruff and Broxton/Phillips almost makes too much sense. Baltimore gets a replacement for Adam Jones and a controllable starter with a Top 100 pedigree. Brewers get Machado by dealing from areas of depth.

 

That offer can be topped, at which point I'd probably bow out, but if Baltimore (in there never-ending quest to not rebuild) really wants MLB-ready talent, the Brewers are in a unique position.

[YelichPosse]

Woodruff, Brown, Phillips for Machado and Britton?

 

THAT i would do i think.

[Humans Need Water]

Woodruff, Phillips and Zack Brown? yeah, Id do it.

I would call that a massive overpay. There's no way I'd part with 2 of Woodruff/Ortiz/Brown. Woodruff/Phillips would be difficult to part with but at least they're at positions of strength/depth so it's easier to swallow

 

I'd do this deal in a heartbeat. No qualms about getting rid of Phillips because like you said, we have that OF depth.

 

Reminder: We're talking about a borderline MVP-level player at arguably our biggest position of need. And we would be doing it without giving up one of our top 3 prospects.

Sure. All pluses you mentioned. Except he's here for 2.5 *months* and we'd still have to pay like 7M. Just because we have depth doesn't mean we absolutely need to give them whatever they want or be ok with parting with folks. The way the Brewers have spoken of Brown it sounds like we're looking at someone who's following the Woodruff/Burnes path from the past 2yrs. That's a lot of controllable talent for 2.5 months