Manny Machado (Part 1)

[MrTPlush]

I have to believe Arcia would need to be involved in the deal. Given the Orioles ownership, I think it would have to be something like Burnes, Arcia and Ray for Machado.

 

That just isn't something Stearns would do.

 

How long ago did you ask him?

 

 

I doubt we get Machado and I really don’t want to give up Peralta or Burnes to do so. If they get Machado they better pair it with a move for a nice controllable player too. We better be making sure we win the division if we get the top rental on the market.

 

Merrifield + Machado anyone? Haha

[adambr2]

If you could land Machado for Arcia I honestly don't think it would be a terrible thing if you could still extract that much value from Arcia, if you think it could help win you the NL this year.

 

You'd keep your farm system completely in tact and Dubon could slide right in as your SS next year and you'd still have high level D at short with Dubon.

[bill hAll Star]

I think I said it earlier: In life, I generally assume the best in people. I know that Peter Angelos does not like to rebuild and has been foolish with this in the past. However, I have to imagine that he cannot be stupid enough to try to trade for mostly MLB-ready guys and compete in 2019 or even 2020. I've misjudged stupid, rich guys before, though. Maybe he really would favor some of our MLB fringe guys.

 

It would be foolish if we didn't at least try to take advantage of a bad GM/owner in such a manner.

 

Well yeah, we can at least try. I think in the end that some sort of sense will be knocked into him and they'll do the smart thing and take the younger/higher upside prospects. Arcia could be construed as one, but you get what I'm saying otherwise.

[bill hAll Star]

One thing with Arcia, it seems like a lot of shortstops are called up due to their defense (this is nothing new) but I have noticed many that have taken ~5 years or somewhere around age 27 (or later) to figure it out at the plate.

 

That would put Arcia near the end of team control.

 

Simmons, Andrus, Segura, Crawford have all blossomed after 5+ years and/or in their late 20s and I'm sure there are a handful more. Can we wait/risk it on Arcia? Probably should, but just the crappy nature of baseball since we won't be able to keep him if and when he finally does break out in a few years.

[YelichPosse]

If you could land Machado for Arcia I honestly don't think it would be a terrible thing if you could still extract that much value from Arcia, if you think it could help win you the NL this year.

 

You'd keep your farm system completely in tact and Dubon could slide right in as your SS next year and you'd still have high level D at short with Dubon.

 

If Arcia and say a 15-20 range prospect for us , would get Machado, I don't think DS could sign off on that fast enough. Dubon may or may not be a flash in the pan, but you have to remember he did originally rate high in the Red Sox system as a prospect, so he may be coming around. It's time for US to get a Segura or Scooter .. lol.

[KeithStone53151]

I have to believe Arcia would need to be involved in the deal. Given the Orioles ownership, I think it would have to be something like Burnes, Arcia and Ray for Machado.

 

That just isn't something Stearns would do.

 

How long ago did you ask him?

 

I can read through his transaction logs and see he hasn't ever traded significant assets for a rental, and I also can see he's able to give up significant assets for guys with a lot of team control. Pair that with his comments about targeting young/controllable talent...simple enough to read between the lines. But cool response though, I'm pretty sure the mods are trying get people to cut back on that sort of thing...

[KeithStone53151]

One thing with Arcia, it seems like a lot of shortstops are called up due to their defense (this is nothing new) but I have noticed many that have taken ~5 years or somewhere around age 27 (or later) to figure it out at the plate.

 

That would put Arcia near the end of team control.

 

Simmons, Andrus, Segura, Crawford have all blossomed after 5+ years and/or in their late 20s and I'm sure there are a handful more. Can we wait/risk it on Arcia? Probably should, but just the crappy nature of baseball since we won't be able to keep him if and when he finally does break out in a few years.

 

I can understand the argument/appeal to trading Arcia while he has value, but not for Machado. Hardest of passes. If you want to add him as a piece in a Degrom/Thor deal...fine. Possibly even an Archer or Stroman deal depending on the other pieces involves. But not a rental.

[MrTPlush]

I can read through his transaction logs and see he hasn't ever traded significant assets for a rental, and I also can see he's able to give up significant assets for guys with a lot of team control. Pair that with his comments about targeting young/controllable talent...simple enough to read between the lines. But cool response though, I'm pretty sure the mods are trying get people to cut back on that sort of thing...

 

 

Has he ever been in this position though? Not even close. He needs to go through 3 or so July’s where they are really competing before I think you can start drawing conclusions about future moves. I doubt he will trade for a major rental, but I wouldn’t try to claim it as a fact.

 

Even after years you never know what he might do with any given team/situation. I’m not really disagreeing with you, I find it highly unlikely...but not impossible.

[Boomer5]

Machado has to be priority one. I can’t even imagine the excitement in Miller Park if this happens.

 

Hiura has to stay because we really don’t have anyone in the minors that projects as an impact bat. Peralta pretty much has to stay because he is our best MLB starter now.

 

But everyone else is fair game. Yes even Burnes. Yes even for a rental. Flags fly forever.

[pacopete4]

Just say no. Machado is a great player but I want no part in giving up top end prospects for two months of play. Stay the course Stearns. Keep doing what you have been and it’ll work.

[bill hAll Star]

Flags fly forever.

 

Look, Machado is a really good player. Transcendent. It improves our division title odds. It improves our World Series odds.

 

But not that much.

 

I'd get behind it if they dealt for him, but we're kinda at the beginning of the window here. If we dealt for Machado and had an uncharacteristically bad month and either missed the playoffs completely or lost the Wild Card game (or even a first round loss) it would be just as depressing as it was exciting a few months earlier when the trade was made.

 

On the other thread discussing the Sabathia trade, I was for it even though we probably lost long-term. There was the desperation of not doing anything in my life on this earth (when I was able to follow the team, at least). I've seen that and 2011 now and I don't want to get foolish for this one.

[Warning Track Power]

I just can't get behind selling significant pieces for a rental bat. Especially when the rotation does not have anyone close to being able to match up with Kershaw/Scherzer/Quintana in Game 1 or a Wild Card game. Either get the ace or make smaller moves (Dozier/Escobar).

[bill hAll Star]

Especially when the rotation does not have anyone close to being able to match up with Kershaw/Scherzer/Quintana in Game 1 or a Wild Card game.

 

We can absolutely match up with one of those names.

 

Hell, for 1 game, it does risk some later game issues, but you could start Hader and work backwards.

 

I agree with the general premise but one of those names is not like the others in the list of 3.

[Warning Track Power]

Especially when the rotation does not have anyone close to being able to match up with Kershaw/Scherzer/Quintana in Game 1 or a Wild Card game.

 

We can absolutely match up with one of those names.

 

Hell, for 1 game, it does risk some later game issues, but you could start Hader and work backwards.

 

I agree with the general premise but one of those names is not like the others in the list of 3.

Assuming you mean Quintana...

 

My point on Quintana is that in 7 starts against the Brewers:

 

49 IP

4-1

0.92 ERA

0.73 WHIP

[bill hAll Star]

Especially when the rotation does not have anyone close to being able to match up with Kershaw/Scherzer/Quintana in Game 1 or a Wild Card game.

 

We can absolutely match up with one of those names.

 

Hell, for 1 game, it does risk some later game issues, but you could start Hader and work backwards.

 

I agree with the general premise but one of those names is not like the others in the list of 3.

Assuming you mean Quintana...

 

My point on Quintana is that in 7 starts against the Brewers:

 

49 IP

4-1

0.92 ERA

0.73 WHIP

 

 

Fair enough. I'm sure he has something on them, but that isn't something that I'm putting much stock in other than fan annoyance.

 

Some of those games were in 2012 and 2015. In those 2 games, Braun played and nobody else that entered the game is currently on the team. So I mean sure, he has owned the Brewers in 4 or 5 recent games, but I still think that there is a little bit of circumstance involved there. We're getting real in the weeds here, but one of those games was a 43 degree day at Wrigley with the wind blowing in 20 MPH.

 

Anyways, I'd rather face other ~4 FIP/xFIP pitchers I guess than Quintana knowing the recent history, but I'd still not be surprised if we knocked him around a bit in any upcoming matchup.

[Brewcrewin07]

I still don't get why so many assume Manny would be a rental...the Brewers will have plenty of $$ to pay him, should they choose to.

[bill hAll Star]

I still don't get why so many assume Manny would be a rental...the Brewers will have plenty of $$ to pay him, should they choose to.

 

No, not really.

[pacopete4]

I still don't get why so many assume Manny would be a rental...the Brewers will have plenty of $$ to pay him, should they choose to.

 

 

No, they don’t. They really don’t.

[KeithStone53151]

I still don't get why so many assume Manny would be a rental...the Brewers will have plenty of $$ to pay him, should they choose to.

 

Come on man, don't derail the thread. Manny would be a rental, he's going to sign with one of 8-10 teams that can reasonably afford him...and we aren't on that list.

[Roderick]

I still don't get why so many assume Manny would be a rental...the Brewers will have plenty of $$ to pay him, should they choose to.

 

Because they shouldn't (and won't) allocate so much of their budget to one player. You are talking at least 25% of the player budget on one guy.

 

Specifically they couldn't afford 2019, we are basically at $95M without any free agent spending. I really don't see the ownership going to a $125M budget.

[adambr2]

Heyman reports the Brewers are definitely in on Machado. To what extent, impossible to say.

 

https://fancredsports.com/articles/jon-heyman-milwaukee-checks-on-machado-as-mostly

[Roderick]

Heyman reports the Brewers are definitely in on Machado. To what extent, impossible to say.

 

https://fancredsports.com/articles/jon-heyman-milwaukee-checks-on-machado-as-mostly

 

And when he was on the radio he admits he likes to churn the pot too.

 

Of course the Brewers have inquired about him, to see what the Orioles were thinking - just like every GM with a playoff pulse that has a need at 3B/SS would have by now. Maybe the Orioles will really like a few players in our system that the Brewers feel they can part ways with and a trade gets done.

 

I think if the Brewers do pull the trigger on this, they should follow it up with a trade for an ace or Realmuto. I'd really hate to end up in a one game wildcard playoff after using up assets for Machado.

[Humans Need Water]

Heyman reports the Brewers are definitely in on Machado. To what extent, impossible to say.

 

https://fancredsports.com/articles/jon-heyman-milwaukee-checks-on-machado-as-mostly

There's nothing in that article that says the Brewers are in on Machado let alone definitely in on him. Of course they're going to kick the tires to see what the asking price is but I'd bet my life that's where it ends, as it should. That article also mentioned Orf...but not Saladino. Yikes.

[adambr2]

Heyman reports the Brewers are definitely in on Machado. To what extent, impossible to say.

 

https://fancredsports.com/articles/jon-heyman-milwaukee-checks-on-machado-as-mostly

 

And when he was on the radio he admits he likes to churn the pot too.

 

Of course the Brewers have inquired about him, to see what the Orioles were thinking - just like every GM with a playoff pulse that has a need at 3B/SS would have by now. Maybe the Orioles will really like a few players in our system that the Brewers feel they can part ways with and a trade gets done.

 

The one area where I'm wondering if there will be more to our interest than most people think is the question of whether the Orioles are going to prefer young prospects far away from the majors or young MLB-ready talent.

 

If it's the latter, we are loaded with such players. Santana, Phillips, Woodruff, Dubon.

[adambr2]

Heyman reports the Brewers are definitely in on Machado. To what extent, impossible to say.

 

https://fancredsports.com/articles/jon-heyman-milwaukee-checks-on-machado-as-mostly

There's nothing in that article that says the Brewers are in on Machado let alone definitely in on him. Of course they're going to kick the tires to see what the asking price is but I'd bet my life that's where it ends, as it should. That article also mentioned Orf...but not Saladino. Yikes.

 

You're really splitting hairs to say it doesn't say they're in on them but then admit of course they're kicking the tires. I even said its impossible to say to what extent they'd be in on him.

 

I guess maybe 'in' isn't the right term but they are doing their due diligence as always.