Tyler Saladino a Brewer [7/5 -- back from injury & in the starting lineup]

[rickh150]

Most here agree with this....

Our middle IF guys are meh at best

We need to get the hot IF bat in the lineup, whomever that be.

 

That is why I though Orf was a candidate instead of Franklin or Saladino in May. He was hitting out of his mind, and we could have capitalized on that for the short term. I'm not calling for Orf now as he has cooled off a bunch.

 

Why do you think Franklin was at AA instead of AAA? Was it because of the inflated numbers at AAA?

[bill hAll Star]

Most here agree with this....

Our middle IF guys are meh at best

We need to get the hot IF bat in the lineup, whomever that be.

 

That is why I though Orf was a candidate instead of Franklin or Saladino in May. He was hitting out of his mind, and we could have capitalized on that for the short term. I'm not calling for Orf now as he has cooled off a bunch.

 

Why do you think Franklin was at AA instead of AAA? Was it because of the inflated numbers at AAA?

 

Major league general managers do not play "hot bats" to decide on personnel very often. Sometimes it can break a tie, but I spent a page discussing how Orf is not in the same stratosphere of MLB talent with Saladino, Sogard, Franklin, Miller.

 

You take the player that is most talented/has a track record (under normal circumstances)/tools to thrive in your situation. You don't grab a guy because he happens to be on a 20 for 35 hitting streak in the minors if you don't think he can hack MLB pitching.

 

You can apply "hot bat" to someone like Aguilar when they grabbed him. He had MLB power and he may have been undervalued coming in. It appears that he's also adjusted his launch angle. In that case, if he's a hot bat in spring training it may raise an eyebrow and warrant a chance.

 

Beyond that, hitters generally have a "hot bat" based on facing poor pitchers or hitting in great environments (like Colorado Springs). Nate Orf's hot streak would end very quickly when he wasn't hitting in Colorado and comes in to face MLB pitching given all of the points I've laid out that he simply is probably not cut out to be a very good hitter in the majors.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Brad Miller! Well, this just got good.

[pacopete4]

Brad Miller! Well, this just got good.

 

Shortstop of the future I was told. He and Hiura will be up the middle for years to come.

[brewerswinNLcentral]

saladino to play in Appleton the next 3-4 days.

He might ne back Monday if we get lucky

[rickh150]

Brad Miller! Well, this just got good.

 

Shortstop of the future I was told. He and Hiura will be up the middle for years to come.

 

Just be good.

[rickh150]

Most here agree with this....

Our middle IF guys are meh at best

We need to get the hot IF bat in the lineup, whomever that be.

 

That is why I though Orf was a candidate instead of Franklin or Saladino in May. He was hitting out of his mind, and we could have capitalized on that for the short term. I'm not calling for Orf now as he has cooled off a bunch.

 

Why do you think Franklin was at AA instead of AAA? Was it because of the inflated numbers at AAA?

 

Major league general managers do not play "hot bats" to decide on personnel very often. Sometimes it can break a tie, but I spent a page discussing how Orf is not in the same stratosphere of MLB talent with Saladino, Sogard, Franklin, Miller.

 

You take the player that is most talented/has a track record (under normal circumstances)/tools to thrive in your situation. You don't grab a guy because he happens to be on a 20 for 35 hitting streak in the minors if you don't think he can hack MLB pitching.

 

You can apply "hot bat" to someone like Aguilar when they grabbed him. He had MLB power and he may have been undervalued coming in. It appears that he's also adjusted his launch angle. In that case, if he's a hot bat in spring training it may raise an eyebrow and warrant a chance.

 

Beyond that, hitters generally have a "hot bat" based on facing poor pitchers or hitting in great environments (like Colorado Springs). Nate Orf's hot streak would end very quickly when he wasn't hitting in Colorado and comes in to face MLB pitching given all of the points I've laid out that he simply is probably not cut out to be a very good hitter in the majors.

 

 

Would have been nice to see him give it a go.... a shame to do so incredibly well without a cup of coffee. His on base is still over .400.... It's tough to believe he would have been worse than our scrap heap now. If one is hitting AAA pitching and doing well in Spring Training, he isn't trash, just down on the depth chart, I guess. I'm curious what other Brewers players are in Orf's category of AAA that will never sniff the big leagues... would like to see some specific names so I know who obviously really isn't a player.

 

The haven't been drafted thing wears thin on me.... tons of examples that either were drafted low or not at all that had solid, if not spectacular, careers.

 

Hot bats or arms are brought up all the time from AA or AAA based on impressive results there and not just tools. The reason so many want Hiura up like NOW is his hot bat, even though his track is for next year or 2020. Peralta is partly up now for the same reason.... Even Sogard was hitting really well in the minors last season and was brought up partly because of that, not because he was a second round pick or that he had previous experience in the bigs.

 

Aguilar was acquired in the offseason about a year and a half ago.... nothing to do with him having a hot bat. I define this "hot" as doing really well or way above avg performance from a weekish to a month plus. I'm guessing your definition is different.

[djoctagone]

tyler saladino is expected to start a minor league rehab assignment towards the end of this week. craig counsell expects the rehab to last 5-7 days.

three days of rehab with class a wisconsin, starting today. reasonable to expect that he'll continue rehab at a higher level?

[bill hAll Star]

Most here agree with this....

Our middle IF guys are meh at best

We need to get the hot IF bat in the lineup, whomever that be.

 

That is why I though Orf was a candidate instead of Franklin or Saladino in May. He was hitting out of his mind, and we could have capitalized on that for the short term. I'm not calling for Orf now as he has cooled off a bunch.

 

Why do you think Franklin was at AA instead of AAA? Was it because of the inflated numbers at AAA?

 

Major league general managers do not play "hot bats" to decide on personnel very often. Sometimes it can break a tie, but I spent a page discussing how Orf is not in the same stratosphere of MLB talent with Saladino, Sogard, Franklin, Miller.

 

You take the player that is most talented/has a track record (under normal circumstances)/tools to thrive in your situation. You don't grab a guy because he happens to be on a 20 for 35 hitting streak in the minors if you don't think he can hack MLB pitching.

 

You can apply "hot bat" to someone like Aguilar when they grabbed him. He had MLB power and he may have been undervalued coming in. It appears that he's also adjusted his launch angle. In that case, if he's a hot bat in spring training it may raise an eyebrow and warrant a chance.

 

Beyond that, hitters generally have a "hot bat" based on facing poor pitchers or hitting in great environments (like Colorado Springs). Nate Orf's hot streak would end very quickly when he wasn't hitting in Colorado and comes in to face MLB pitching given all of the points I've laid out that he simply is probably not cut out to be a very good hitter in the majors.

 

 

Would have been nice to see him give it a go.... a shame to do so incredibly well without a cup of coffee. His on base is still over .400.... It's tough to believe he would have been worse than our scrap heap now. If one is hitting AAA pitching and doing well in Spring Training, he isn't trash, just down on the depth chart, I guess. I'm curious what other Brewers players are in Orf's category of AAA that will never sniff the big leagues... would like to see some specific names so I know who obviously really isn't a player.

 

The haven't been drafted thing wears thin on me.... tons of examples that either were drafted low or not at all that had solid, if not spectacular, careers.

 

Hot bats or arms are brought up all the time from AA or AAA based on impressive results there and not just tools. The reason so many want Hiura up like NOW is his hot bat, even though his track is for next year or 2020. Peralta is partly up now for the same reason.... Even Sogard was hitting really well in the minors last season and was brought up partly because of that, not because he was a second round pick or that he had previous experience in the bigs.

 

Aguilar was acquired in the offseason about a year and a half ago.... nothing to do with him having a hot bat. I define this "hot" as doing really well or way above avg performance from a weekish to a month plus. I'm guessing your definition is different.

 

Hiura has a "hot bat" because he's actually a likely good MLB player.

 

As for the undrafted thing - for every Tom Brady (late pick) or Albert Pujols there are 10,000 guys that never play in the pros. Just because one of those guys exists doesn't mean you have to believe it's gonna happen with someone like Orf. I wouldn't play some complete washout that was drafted in the 1st round ahead of Orf forever...but it is definitely a data point as to why we can assume that he'll struggle talent-wise in the majors given that "more talented" players like Franklin, Sogard, etc. can barely succeed.

 

In terms of "hot bat" I'm saying the only reason I'd pay attention to it is if it is a particular player that has potential or MLB tools. Aguilar having a good spring was something to take notice of because he previously had talents that translated to the majors. He may be starting to figure it out. Beyond that, hitting streaks are very predictable. If you're a fantasy baseball manager, pick up a talented/good MLB hitter that is going to Coors Field. They'll get a lot of hits.

 

It's a struggle here if you cannot logically connect the dots that I'm trying to give you between Sogard and Orf and "hot streaks." I brought up that Sogard destroyed Colorado Springs/AAA last year because he's a superior player. If we had to send down Christian Yelich, there is a theoretical maximum, but I bet Yelich would hit .370 with a 1.200 OPS in Colorado Springs. So the fact that Orf is hitting .300/.400/.400 is not that impressive and is not some sort of hot streak that we should be trying to parlay into MLB success.

 

I'll grant you guys this, that at this point of Sogard's career...sure, Orf could come up and put up a .600 OPS-.650 OPS. That's what I expect Sogard to trend back to anyways and therefore the organization likely does not want to dump $500k and a 40-man spot to Orf to find out. They're willing to do this for Keston Hiura in a few weeks because there is upside. Hiura may put up an .800 OPS or at the very least use this as a development tool for a great career. There's no upside with Orf. His ceiling is Eric Sogard and I'd heavily bet against him ever being that good. So what's the point? It's like trading out eating a bag of donuts for breakfast to eating an entire box of Lucky Charms for breakfast when you're trying to lose weight. There's no upside and it's not worth it to "try something different" in that case.

[djoctagone]

tyler saladino played five innings at shortstop last night for the timber rattlers. 0-2 with strikeout and a walk.

[Yellin4Yelich]

Orf has a .663 OPS on the road and a .250 average.

 

Maaaaaaybe that’s a big reason he’s not given an opportunity.

 

It doesn't really matter. The point is that on the whole, Orf's entire "he hits so well in AAA" description has to do with the fact that he essentially plays half of his games on the moon. The rest of the PCL is actually great for hitters but he has only done OK with that.

 

It's the same reason that there are various guys that put up borderline All Star numbers for the Rockies that I would be barely interested in in a trade. You can't trust the numbers unless they're by a truly good hitter that can hit outside of that environment as well.

 

When will be the brewers minor league team leave Colorado springs? It seems like having the AAA team there has a negative impact on the organization (i.e. it makes evaluation of talent a little bit difficult, probably impacts development)

[rickh150]

Orf has a .663 OPS on the road and a .250 average.

 

Maaaaaaybe that’s a big reason he’s not given an opportunity.

 

It doesn't really matter. The point is that on the whole, Orf's entire "he hits so well in AAA" description has to do with the fact that he essentially plays half of his games on the moon. The rest of the PCL is actually great for hitters but he has only done OK with that.

 

It's the same reason that there are various guys that put up borderline All Star numbers for the Rockies that I would be barely interested in in a trade. You can't trust the numbers unless they're by a truly good hitter that can hit outside of that environment as well.

 

When will be the brewers minor league team leave Colorado springs? It seems like having the AAA team there has a negative impact on the organization (i.e. it makes evaluation of talent a little bit difficult, probably impacts development)

 

This is the last year.

[tmwiese55]

Did that all become official yet. I think last I saw CS was moving to San Antonio but that we'd end up in Fresno?

[rickh150]

Most here agree with this....

Our middle IF guys are meh at best

We need to get the hot IF bat in the lineup, whomever that be.

 

That is why I though Orf was a candidate instead of Franklin or Saladino in May. He was hitting out of his mind, and we could have capitalized on that for the short term. I'm not calling for Orf now as he has cooled off a bunch.

 

Why do you think Franklin was at AA instead of AAA? Was it because of the inflated numbers at AAA?

 

Major league general managers do not play "hot bats" to decide on personnel very often. Sometimes it can break a tie, but I spent a page discussing how Orf is not in the same stratosphere of MLB talent with Saladino, Sogard, Franklin, Miller.

 

You take the player that is most talented/has a track record (under normal circumstances)/tools to thrive in your situation. You don't grab a guy because he happens to be on a 20 for 35 hitting streak in the minors if you don't think he can hack MLB pitching.

 

You can apply "hot bat" to someone like Aguilar when they grabbed him. He had MLB power and he may have been undervalued coming in. It appears that he's also adjusted his launch angle. In that case, if he's a hot bat in spring training it may raise an eyebrow and warrant a chance.

 

Beyond that, hitters generally have a "hot bat" based on facing poor pitchers or hitting in great environments (like Colorado Springs). Nate Orf's hot streak would end very quickly when he wasn't hitting in Colorado and comes in to face MLB pitching given all of the points I've laid out that he simply is probably not cut out to be a very good hitter in the majors.

 

 

Would have been nice to see him give it a go.... a shame to do so incredibly well without a cup of coffee. His on base is still over .400.... It's tough to believe he would have been worse than our scrap heap now. If one is hitting AAA pitching and doing well in Spring Training, he isn't trash, just down on the depth chart, I guess. I'm curious what other Brewers players are in Orf's category of AAA that will never sniff the big leagues... would like to see some specific names so I know who obviously really isn't a player.

 

The haven't been drafted thing wears thin on me.... tons of examples that either were drafted low or not at all that had solid, if not spectacular, careers.

 

Hot bats or arms are brought up all the time from AA or AAA based on impressive results there and not just tools. The reason so many want Hiura up like NOW is his hot bat, even though his track is for next year or 2020. Peralta is partly up now for the same reason.... Even Sogard was hitting really well in the minors last season and was brought up partly because of that, not because he was a second round pick or that he had previous experience in the bigs.

 

Aguilar was acquired in the offseason about a year and a half ago.... nothing to do with him having a hot bat. I define this "hot" as doing really well or way above avg performance from a weekish to a month plus. I'm guessing your definition is different.

 

 

Did you read WHY aging lefty, out of the majors for five years, big Z was brought up? Craig said, "He was throwing the ball well." Sounds like pretty good stats at AAA or perhaps a hot arm.....

[rickh150]

Did that all become official yet. I think last I saw CS was moving to San Antonio but that we'd end up in Fresno?

 

Our Helena rookie ball team will play there next season. We are looking for a new place for AAA. Other contracts are up this year and we are shopping for a new home..... haven't heard much recently.

[brewerswinNLcentral]

I would love it if they could move the triple A team to Rockford,madison or Beloit.

[djoctagone]

When will be the brewers minor league team leave Colorado springs? It seems like having the AAA team there has a negative impact on the organization (i.e. it makes evaluation of talent a little bit difficult, probably impacts development)

tyler saladino wants you to know that there's a thread on this in the minor league forum.

[LouisEly]

I would love it if they could move the triple A team to Rockford,madison or Beloit.

AAA markets typically need to be MSAs ranked in the #35-70 range. Think Indianapolis, San Jose, Nashville, Oklahoma City, Memphis, Richmond, New Orleans, Salt Lake City.

 

Madison is #86 and might be possible, but the Brewers may not want to risk cannibalization in people staying in Madison to watch the AAA team instead of driving to Milwaukee to watch the Brewers.

 

Grand Rapids is #52 (over 1M in the MSA) and has an A-ball team. That's the market I'd target.

[rickh150]

Orf has a .663 OPS on the road and a .250 average.

 

Maaaaaaybe that’s a big reason he’s not given an opportunity.

 

 

Maaaaaybe not....

[pacopete4]

It’s too bad Sogard has been such trash to give Orf an opportunity.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It’s too bad Sogard has been such trash to give Orf an opportunity.

 

Will be interesting to see what the move is to bring Orf up. Sogard has to be on borrowed time. His and Orf's skillsets are pretty redundant. If Sogard isn't gone today, I imagine he's a dead duck when Saladino returns likely later this week.

[rickh150]

It’s too bad Sogard has been such trash to give Orf an opportunity.

 

Sogard doesn't even have 100 at bats.... that's about an AB a game. These many middle IF moves are the result of Arcia and Villar, primarily. They are the ones starting and playing in these games and not doing much. We are now scrambling for something, anything, even a Choi trade, to get numbers like Sogard's last season.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It’s too bad Sogard has been such trash to give Orf an opportunity.

 

Sogard doesn't even have 100 at bats.... that's about an AB a game. These many middle IF moves are the result of Arcia and Villar, primarily. They are the ones starting and playing in these games and not doing much. We are now scrambling for something, anything, even a Choi trade, to get numbers like Sogard's last season.

 

Oh come on. If Sogard was providing even a quarter of the production he did in his hot window last season, they wouldn't be cycling through any of these guys, and Sogard would be getting a starter-level number at ABs. The only reason he has less than 100 ABs is that he has done next to nothing with the chances he's been given. When you produce, you get more opportunity. If you don't, you either ride the pine or are jettisoned. Villar has shown hints of production this year, which explains why he's still around. Arcia hasn't, and now he's not.

[FVBrewerFan]

I would love it if they could move the triple A team to Rockford,madison or Beloit.

AAA markets typically need to be MSAs ranked in the #35-70 range. Think Indianapolis, San Jose, Nashville, Oklahoma City, Memphis, Richmond, New Orleans, Salt Lake City.

 

Madison is #86 and might be possible, but the Brewers may not want to risk cannibalization in people staying in Madison to watch the AAA team instead of driving to Milwaukee to watch the Brewers.

 

Grand Rapids is #52 (over 1M in the MSA) and has an A-ball team. That's the market I'd target.

 

I had no idea! I wouldn't have expected GR to be in the top 100, let alone #52.

[istanbultaye]

I'd blame Arcia for precipitating most of the moves, much more so than Villar. Villar hasn't been great, but he's not a black hole at least. That said, a 3 person rotation between Saladino, Villar and Miller for 2B and SS is probably the best hope for the next month of getting 6-8 to be respectable in the lineup. I don't really care too too much who the last man on the bench is between Sogard and Orf, but Sogard has not caught any lightning in his bottle this year, so even if I don't really blame him much at all for the Brewers offensive challenges, I'm also not going to complain if/when the Brewers move on from him.