Tyler Saladino a Brewer [7/5 -- back from injury & in the starting lineup]

[rickh150]

This is simple to me. Saladino is clearly better at D by a wide margin. Big sample of O and chances are they're roughly equivalent htere, however Sogard has now had a good sample since his initial hot streak to start last year and has been awful ever since. Not just career standard 240/300ish awful, we're talking pitcher level hitter awful. While looking completely overwhelmed at the plate, so he might just be done. As long as Saladino just does the baseline awful 250/300 it's huge upgrade over what you can expect from Sogard to finish this season especially when you factor in the D.

 

Saladino vs Arcia is a different argument. At least Arcia has shown some flashes the last couple weeks of hard hit balls. Would be nice to get him 3-4 weeks in AAA and see if he can turn that into something legit.

 

You're giving Arcia, of all people, credit for hard hit balls? His LD% at 17%, and he's consistently hitting 0-2.

 

Funny thing is (and I agree with those who say to get rid of the whole lot for better players), we have very good hitting 2B at AA and AAA (Hiura and Orf) that just might be better than most mentioned.

 

Orf is not an MLB baseball player. I'm convinced of this. We have a front office that consistently has our team exceeding projections every year and apparently have zero intent on ever calling up Orf and there is probably a very good reason for this.

 

Ha! How are you so sure? Seen him play? Or just blindly going with DS on this one?

 

Then, please oh please, explain why Orf is at AAA? Why are we playing this poor sap at our highest minor league affiliate?

 

If I'm Orf, I would have gone to Stearns on an off day when I was hitting .380 (slumped to .300 or so now) plumped by butt in his office chair, and have him explain why in the world he was playing me at AAA? Ask him why even have me on the team if there is no hope for me, regardless of what I do, at AAA. If every cotton pickin guy from Saladino, Franklin, Sogard, and now Miller was considered above me, why even play me at AAA. Cut me or play me at A ball.

 

It's a sick joke to have our weakest positions not being filled by our AAA hot hitting infielder. If stats do matter (and many of you continue to beat the stats drum for Sogard's departure), others should be calling for guys like Orf and Wren to get shots to play off our bench.

 

If his play does not matter for some biased and unfair reason, get rid of the poor sap. Don't lead the guy on. This Brewers topic upsets me more than any other, and this includes my rants on the extended long rope of love for the ever talented Villar.

[bill hAll Star]

You're giving Arcia, of all people, credit for hard hit balls? His LD% at 17%, and he's consistently hitting 0-2.

 

Funny thing is (and I agree with those who say to get rid of the whole lot for better players), we have very good hitting 2B at AA and AAA (Hiura and Orf) that just might be better than most mentioned.

 

Orf is not an MLB baseball player. I'm convinced of this. We have a front office that consistently has our team exceeding projections every year and apparently have zero intent on ever calling up Orf and there is probably a very good reason for this.

 

Ha! How are you so sure? Seen him play? Or just blindly going with DS on this one?

 

Then, please oh please, explain why Orf is at AAA? Why are we playing this poor sap at our highest minor league affiliate?

 

If I'm Orf, I would have gone to Stearns on an off day when I was hitting .380 (slumped to .300 or so now) plumped by butt in his office chair, and have him explain why in the world he was playing me at AAA? Ask him why even have me on the team if there is no hope for me, regardless of what I do, at AAA. If every cotton pickin guy from Saladino, Franklin, Sogard, and now Miller was considered above me, why even play me at AAA. Cut me or play me at A ball.

 

It's a sick joke to have our weakest positions not being filled by our AAA hot hitting infielder. If stats do matter (and many of you continue to beat the stats drum for Sogard's departure), others should be calling for guys like Orf and Wren to get shots to play off our bench.

 

If his play does not matter for some biased and unfair reason, get rid of the poor sap. Don't lead the guy on. This Brewers topic upsets me more than any other, and this includes my rants on the extended long rope of love for the ever talented Villar.

 

1. We've had guys that hit .220 in the majors (one of them is hitting .180 in Miami this year) hit .330 in Colorado Springs. Throw those stats in the garbage. It can add .50 points to your batting average compared to more neutral minors leagues/parks, especially given that the road parks in that league are great for hitters in the PCL.

 

2. He has almost no power. Eric Sogard was a much better minor league hitter statistically and ran through the minors in his early 20s. Nate Orf is still in AAA at age 28.

 

There you go. Put those two things together. You can only put so many exciting, gritty at-bats with good patience together that fans generally fawn over when you cannot hit the ball anywhere near the wall or over it routinely. Major league pitchers, shifts, and defenders will eat you up.

 

Take a look at what Ivan DeJesus did in Colorado Springs and what he did as an MLB player.

 

There is a reason that nobody has touched Orf and Wren in the Rule 5 draft. Their gaudy .310/.400/.400 lines in Colorado Springs will turn into .230/.280/.330 in the majors. Wren at least has borderline elite speed so maybe he'd have a shot.

 

Ivan DeJesus

MLB Career - .242 Avg, .630 OPS

2017: Colorado Springs - .345 Avg, .894 OPS

2018: Pawtucket - .277 Avg, .729 OPS

 

Lewis Brinson

2017 Colorado Springs - .331 Avg, .962 OPS

2018 Miami Marlins - .177 Avg, .554 OPS

 

So on, so forth. Many more examples with Colorado Springs or Coors Field.

[tmwiese55]

Likely true of course. But you know that's what you're getting from Sogard already, he's had plenty of sample and he can't hack it. So why not give one of them a chance, see if you get a lightning in a bottle situation like Sogard last year or maybe they are a bit better. As in they're not gonna hit 300 but a blah 255/315 is still way better than Sogard. Worst case, you get the same crap you're getting from Sogard so I don't see the downside. It also shows to others that if you work hard and get results you'll at least get your shot. It worked with Saladino for a bit. Long story short, Sogard is likely the worst player in MLB right now, it's gonna be tough to do worse.

 

Note, I'm not sure who's on the 40 man so that could be a barrier. But at this point I'm fine just giving one of them Sogard's spot on the 40 if needed. He just can't hack it at the MLB level.

[bill hAll Star]

Likely true of course. But you know that's what you're getting from Sogard already, he's had plenty of sample and he can't hack it. So why not give one of them a chance, see if you get a lightning in a bottle situation like Sogard last year or maybe they are a bit better. As in they're not gonna hit 300 but a blah 255/315 is still way better than Sogard. Worst case, you get the same crap you're getting from Sogard so I don't see the downside. It also shows to others that if you work hard and get results you'll at least get your shot. It worked with Saladino for a bit. Long story short, Sogard is likely the worst player in MLB right now, it's gonna be tough to do worse.

 

Note, I'm not sure who's on the 40 man so that could be a barrier. But at this point I'm fine just giving one of them Sogard's spot on the 40 if needed. He just can't hack it at the MLB level.

 

Tyler Saladino has had MLB talent and was ticketed for the majors. Eric Sogard was an great minor league hitter (for a slap-hitting middle infielder) and an OK defensive player in the majors.

 

Brad Miller was a dominant minor league hitter and puts up league average numbers for a middle infielder.

 

There are a lot of better options than handing someone an achievement award. We're trying to win a pennant and while I agree that keeping Sogard around forever is puzzling, I'll trust this regime which seems to have us 5-10 games over expectations/projections every year as to who they think can hack it in the majors.

 

I know we debated this a month ago, but I was a decent high school hitter and tried really hard. Why not call me up? You bristled at it, but that's the extreme example. If they don't think that Orf is going to be a good major league hitter then why call him up because "we know Sogard isn't good" if we still think he's a better option than Orf? Trying something different for the sake of it doesn't make sense if it's a vastly inferior option.

 

It's one thing when you have a guy with MLB talent like Saladino available. Then yes, absolutely try the other option out because Sogard is a known poor commodity. It's another thing if you're just going to call up a guy destined to fail because you feel like trying something different.

 

They could be nice to Orf and expose him to trades or the rule 5 draft. Oh, wait, they have already done this and nobody else in the league wants him.

[rickh150]

There you go. Put those two things together. You can only put so many exciting, gritty at-bats with good patience together that fans generally fawn over when you cannot hit the ball anywhere near the wall or over it routinely. Major league pitchers, shifts, and defenders will eat you up.

 

Take a look at what Ivan DeJesus did in Colorado Springs and what he did as an MLB player.

 

There is a reason that nobody has touched Orf and Wren in the Rule 5 draft. Their gaudy .310/.400/.400 lines in Colorado Springs will turn into .230/.280/.330 in the majors. Wren at least has borderline elite speed so maybe he'd have a shot.

 

Ivan DeJesus

MLB Career - .242 Avg, .630 OPS

2017: Colorado Springs - .345 Avg, .894 OPS

2018: Pawtucket - .277 Avg, .729 OPS

 

Lewis Brinson

2017 Colorado Springs - .331 Avg, .962 OPS

2018 Miami Marlins - .177 Avg, .554 OPS

 

So on, so forth. Many more examples with Colorado Springs or Coors Field.

 

 

So why have a Wren or Orf at AAA? You can't have it both ways, my friend. Either they are fraud trash like you say and shouldn't be at AAA (give a more deserving player a shot that will actually produce in the majors), or they deserve a shot in our MLB awful infield.

[pacopete4]

If every cotton pickin guy from Saladino, Franklin, Sogard, and now Miller was considered above me, why even play me at AAA.

 

You really might want to lose this as apart of your vocabulary.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

So why have a Wren or Orf at AAA? You can't have it both ways, my friend. Either they are fraud trash like you say and shouldn't be at AAA (give a more deserving player a shot that will actually produce in the majors), or they deserve a shot in our MLB awful infield.

 

Every team has "Organizational Soldier" types to fill out their minor league rosters. That's exactly what Orf and Wren are ... and really what Sogard is too. I'm sure the Brewers would love to have MLB prospects at every position at AAA and AA, but things just don't seem to work that way.

[bill hAll Star]

So why have a Wren or Orf at AAA? You can't have it both ways, my friend. Either they are fraud trash like you say and shouldn't be at AAA (give a more deserving player a shot that will actually produce in the majors), or they deserve a shot in our MLB awful infield.

 

You have those guys in AAA because your options behind them perhaps have not yet advanced to AAA. Most very good major league players (longtime starters) barely taste AAA. If Hiura is coming up, it's likely directly from AA. If he goes to AAA, he may displace Orf for 2 months and then come up and give the spot back to Orf.

 

Those guys are also fine as 6th or 7th options. If Saladino is hurt, Sogard is hurt, Villar is hurt, and Miller isn't cutting it at SS...then I'll call up Nate Orf and live with his .230/.280/.340 batting line for hopefully a few weeks off my bench at 2B/SS because maybe I refuse to call up Hiura yet and start his clock, etc.

 

Basically every organization has these guys.

[tmwiese55]

Likely true of course. But you know that's what you're getting from Sogard already, he's had plenty of sample and he can't hack it. So why not give one of them a chance, see if you get a lightning in a bottle situation like Sogard last year or maybe they are a bit better. As in they're not gonna hit 300 but a blah 255/315 is still way better than Sogard. Worst case, you get the same crap you're getting from Sogard so I don't see the downside. It also shows to others that if you work hard and get results you'll at least get your shot. It worked with Saladino for a bit. Long story short, Sogard is likely the worst player in MLB right now, it's gonna be tough to do worse.

 

Note, I'm not sure who's on the 40 man so that could be a barrier. But at this point I'm fine just giving one of them Sogard's spot on the 40 if needed. He just can't hack it at the MLB level.

 

Tyler Saladino has had MLB talent and was ticketed for the majors. Eric Sogard was an great minor league hitter (for a slap-hitting middle infielder) and an OK defensive player in the majors.

 

Brad Miller was a dominant minor league hitter and puts up league average numbers for a middle infielder.

 

There are a lot of better options than handing someone an achievement award. We're trying to win a pennant and while I agree that keeping Sogard around forever is puzzling, I'll trust this regime which seems to have us 5-10 games over expectations/projections every year as to who they think can hack it in the majors.

 

I know we debated this a month ago, but I was a decent high school hitter and tried really hard. Why not call me up? You bristled at it, but that's the extreme example. If they don't think that Orf is going to be a good major league hitter then why call him up because "we know Sogard isn't good" if we still think he's a better option than Orf? Trying something different for the sake of it doesn't make sense if it's a vastly inferior option.

 

It's one thing when you have a guy with MLB talent like Saladino available. Then yes, absolutely try the other option out because Sogard is a known poor commodity. It's another thing if you're just going to call up a guy destined to fail because you feel like trying something different.

 

They could be nice to Orf and expose him to trades or the rule 5 draft. Oh, wait, they have already done this and nobody else in the league wants him.

 

Because sometimes you have to admit you're wrong or maybe you're missing something rather than being stubborn. IMO, they're being stubborn with Sogard to try and prove themselves right (the sunk cost fallacy thing) and/or or are being loyal to him because he's a nice guy that everyone likes. If I remember he was brought over because some friend of his in another organization came here and likes him, so now they're just playing favorites in a way. In reality, he's had his shot. Try the next guy and see if he's better. If not, try the next guy. Of course these are all "least worst" options and I'd prefer someone good, but considering the hand they're dealt it's what they should be doing while they keep exploring legit options.

 

I think you had a line in there about achievement award type thing and you're against it. That's basically what they're doing with Sogard right now and you seem ok with it as he hits 110. This is a you are doing well and everything right, let's see if you can keep it going at the next level. Here's your shot, sink or swim.

 

The example of you being a HS hitter is just completely dumb and you know it. These guys are all at the same AAA/AAAA level and generally in the same ballpark/class of player. You playing HS ball is not in the same class. Sogard is likely the worst player in MLB, I don't see how anyone can argue with giving someone else a chance. It's almost impossible to do worse than him.

[tmwiese55]

So why have a Wren or Orf at AAA? You can't have it both ways, my friend. Either they are fraud trash like you say and shouldn't be at AAA (give a more deserving player a shot that will actually produce in the majors), or they deserve a shot in our MLB awful infield.

 

You have those guys in AAA because your options behind them perhaps have not yet advanced to AAA. Most very good major league players (longtime starters) barely taste AAA. If Hiura is coming up, it's likely directly from AA. If he goes to AAA, he may displace Orf for 2 months and then come up and give the spot back to Orf.

 

Those guys are also fine as 6th or 7th options. If Saladino is hurt, Sogard is hurt, Villar is hurt, and Miller isn't cutting it at SS...then I'll call up Nate Orf and live with his .230/.280/.340 batting line for hopefully a few weeks off my bench at 2B/SS because maybe I refuse to call up Hiura yet and start his clock, etc.

 

Basically every organization has these guys.

 

which is way better than Sogard.

 

you're overall point is right though. Everyone has the AAAA fill in guys to fill out teams. This is an odd case of how truly awful our IF is hitting right now creating an unexpected situation.

[bill hAll Star]

Likely true of course. But you know that's what you're getting from Sogard already, he's had plenty of sample and he can't hack it. So why not give one of them a chance, see if you get a lightning in a bottle situation like Sogard last year or maybe they are a bit better. As in they're not gonna hit 300 but a blah 255/315 is still way better than Sogard. Worst case, you get the same crap you're getting from Sogard so I don't see the downside. It also shows to others that if you work hard and get results you'll at least get your shot. It worked with Saladino for a bit. Long story short, Sogard is likely the worst player in MLB right now, it's gonna be tough to do worse.

 

Note, I'm not sure who's on the 40 man so that could be a barrier. But at this point I'm fine just giving one of them Sogard's spot on the 40 if needed. He just can't hack it at the MLB level.

 

Tyler Saladino has had MLB talent and was ticketed for the majors. Eric Sogard was an great minor league hitter (for a slap-hitting middle infielder) and an OK defensive player in the majors.

 

Brad Miller was a dominant minor league hitter and puts up league average numbers for a middle infielder.

 

There are a lot of better options than handing someone an achievement award. We're trying to win a pennant and while I agree that keeping Sogard around forever is puzzling, I'll trust this regime which seems to have us 5-10 games over expectations/projections every year as to who they think can hack it in the majors.

 

I know we debated this a month ago, but I was a decent high school hitter and tried really hard. Why not call me up? You bristled at it, but that's the extreme example. If they don't think that Orf is going to be a good major league hitter then why call him up because "we know Sogard isn't good" if we still think he's a better option than Orf? Trying something different for the sake of it doesn't make sense if it's a vastly inferior option.

 

It's one thing when you have a guy with MLB talent like Saladino available. Then yes, absolutely try the other option out because Sogard is a known poor commodity. It's another thing if you're just going to call up a guy destined to fail because you feel like trying something different.

 

They could be nice to Orf and expose him to trades or the rule 5 draft. Oh, wait, they have already done this and nobody else in the league wants him.

 

Because sometimes you have to admit you're wrong or maybe you're missing something rather than being stubborn. IMO, they're being stubborn with Sogard to try and prove themselves right (the sunk cost fallacy thing) and/or or are being loyal to him because he's a nice guy that everyone likes. If I remember he was brought over because some friend of his in another organization came here and likes him, so now they're just playing favorites in a way. In reality, he's had his shot. Try the next guy and see if he's better. If not, try the next guy. Of course these are all "least worst" options and I'd prefer someone good, but considering the hand they're dealt it's what they should be doing while they keep exploring legit options.

 

I think you had a line in there about achievement award type thing and you're against it. That's basically what they're doing with Sogard right now and you seem ok with it as he hits 110. This is a you are doing well and everything right, let's see if you can keep it going at the next level. Here's your shot, sink or swim.

 

The example of you being a HS hitter is just completely dumb and you know it. These guys are all at the same AAA/AAAA level and generally in the same ballpark/class of player. You playing HS ball is not in the same class. Sogard is likely the worst player in MLB, I don't see how anyone can argue with giving someone else a chance. It's almost impossible to do worse than him.

 

These guys are not all the same AAA/AAAA caliber guys. How hard is that to understand? The guys we have tried are. Nate Orf is not and hence why I keep bringing up the "why not call me up?"

 

Eric Sogard was drafted in the 2nd round, hit .300/.380/.420 from ages 21-24 in the minors.

 

Nick Franklin was a 1st round pick, was in the top 100, put up an .840 OPS at age 19 in A/AA ball.

 

Tyler Saladino was a 7th round pick and put up several .850 OPS seasons in his early 20s in the minors while being a very good defensive MLB option.

 

Brad Miller was a 2nd round pick, shot through the minors, and has put up respectable MLB numbers.

 

Nate Orf was undrafted, is nothing special as a defender, and never hit well in the minors until he was a 27 year old playing in the best hitting environment in American baseball. He has zero power which is needed for somebody that does not have elite speed to have a chance at doing anything against MLB pitching/defense.

 

I'm not saying that where a guy is drafted or his scouted talent always should be the starting point because there are definitely exceptions but Nate Orf is not interchangeable with these other guys. I keep trying to say that and you keep lumping him in with the other guys.

[pacopete4]

[Fear The Chorizo]

AAA is where guys that aren't good enough to play in the major leagues make a nice little career for themselves playing baseball, that's why. It's a misconception that prospects, true prospects, need to work their way through every minor league level before making their mlb debut.

 

Just because you are a minor leaguer, you are not necessarily a prospect. This whole thread has turned into evaluating which one of 5-6 MIF options that at best are 25th men on the roster the brewers should have in Milwaukee because Arcia has decided to suck offensively so far this season. In a perfect world Arcia rights the ship, Villar provides adequate offense from 2nd, and a combo of Perez and one of these other guys fill out the bench (my preference right now would be either a healthy saladino or miller). Problem is Arcia just isn't an everyday offensive option right now so the brewers are stuck trying to make things work with too many of these marginal at best mlb players getting significant playing time.

 

It was posted earlier in this thread, brewer ss offensive production is pitcheresque thus far in 2018, mIles behind even the league average. It's position #1 to upgrade via trade to drastically improve this team. If the brewers still want arcia starting there longterm, he can go down to AAA to get some consistent at bats the rest of this year without hurting the mlb brewers in meaningful games after they bring in the guy currently in Baltimore that can hit a little and not embarrass himself defensively at SS for a free agency audition/postseason run.

[tmwiese55]

They are literally playing on the same team/level in AAA, so yes they are in the same class. I don't know why that's hard to grasp. But ok, keep saying that Orf can't bat .111 and Sogard must be better just because he should be. Sometimes projections are wrong and scouts are wrong, he sucks, they're wrong about him. Try something else. I'm not even advocating specifically for our guys at AAA (you said I lumped in Orf, when I probably never even said his name), I really have no opinion on them in anyway. I'm saying anyone in these levels (in anyone's system) doing generally well is likely to do better than Sogard. But yea I guess if someone was drafted higher 10 years ago that matters now. Underdogs make it all the time and over perform, other times they prove they can't hack. All in all, the chances of any of these guys doing worse than Sogard is almost impossible. But you're going to say Sogard should be up because he was drafted higher and hit better in AAA 8 years ago. OK, yes I'm the crazy one here then. I just don't know how anyone is trying to defend leaving Sogard on the MLB lineup. And that any joe schmo average AAA player (like Sogard was too) should'be be able to do better than what Sogard is doing and has been doing for the last year.

[pacopete4]

There’s economics to these calls too. Usually overlooked by fans.

[tmwiese55]

Yup, they handed Sogard 2.5 mil and are in the sunk cost fallacy stage now.

[pacopete4]

Yup, they handed Sogard 2.5 mil and are in the sunk cost fallacy stage now.

 

Don’t forget having to pay a guy like Orf a major league salary instead of his peanuts he’s being paid now. It all matters on the bottom line.

[bill hAll Star]

They are literally playing on the same team/level in AAA, so yes they are in the same class. I don't know why that's hard to grasp. But ok, keep saying that Orf can't bat .111 and Sogard must be better just because he should be. Sometimes projections are wrong and scouts are wrong, he sucks, they're wrong about him. Try something else. I'm not even advocating specifically for our guys at AAA, I really have no opinion on them in anyway. I'm saying anyone in these levels is likely to do better than Sogard. But yea I guess if someone was drafted higher 10 years ago that matters now. Underdogs make it all the time and over perform, other times they prove they can't hack. All in all, the chances of any of these guys doing worse than Sogard is almost impossible. But you're going to say Sogard should be up because he was drafted higher and hit better in AAA 8 years ago. OK, yes I'm the crazy one here then. I just don't know how anyone is trying to defend leaving Sogard on the MLB lineup. And that any joe schmo average AAA player (like Sogard was too) should'be be able to do better than what Sogard is doing and has been doing for the last year.

 

I have always been not a fan of Sogard. His little run of last year got fans' expectations of a career utility guy way too high. I would have had no problem cutting him earlier this year and wouldn't care right now.

 

That said, he very well could put up a .240/.320/.370 with defensive versatility or something like that line the rest of the way. Yes, he's struggling right now. You still go with your analysis on players. You don't go to inferior talent to "try something different" even if Sogard is having a bad year.

 

If Christian Yelich hits .190 for 2 months, I'm not calling up Keon Broxton for him yet. The staff has a lot of data to back up sticking with Yelich...and Yelich will get it right.

 

I'd expect that out of Franklin with some upside or Miller with even more upside. Saladino has an MLB glove and has some upside in his bat.

 

"Sometimes projections are wrong, sometimes scouts are wrong."

 

OK, I'm going to bring this up yet again. Why not call me up? The scouts and management could be wrong. Maybe all I needed was a change of scenery from my local softball league and get some MLB coaching and I'll figure it all out.

 

"Sometimes projections are wrong" is a cop out answer for "anything can happen." Of course it can. That doesn't mean we're going to bat Eric Sogard leadoff every day for the rest of the season because "you never know, maybe we were wrong and he'll put up a .400 OBP the rest of the year."

 

We literally pay millions of dollars to these guys and [other than Scooter] this staff clearly knows what the hell they're doing. They are arguably one of the best front offices in all of baseball and you're suggesting "try something different" as a solution. They're going to keep trying to improve (hence, trading for Miller) but they aren't going to do something just to do something (Orf) if it doesn't make sense to them.

 

Also, Sogard has been an OK (below league average/average) utility guy for the better part of 8 years. That's why I'd take him over Orf given the expectations on Orf. The fact that Sogard was drafted high and a good minors player is part of the equation. The other part of it tells you how misleading everyone's perception of Orf can be. He doesn't carry the talent for MLB baseball and his AAA numbers are very misleading and are being done when he's 4-5 years older than the majority of the league. In a lot of cases, the talent will eventually play into the stats.

[rickh150]

I get the whole organization depth thing, but Orf has to be like option 10 in the IF, regardless of what he is doing at AAA. Possibly unprecedented to not bring up a AAA bat when considering how bad our IF has been. He could hit .450 and it would be ignored. Naw, if he is as bad as you believe (and you may be right), other MLB retreads should be at AAA instead of this poor sap. We have umpteen of them.

[bill hAll Star]

I get the whole organization depth thing, but Orf has to be like option 10 in the IF, regardless of what he is doing at AAA. Possibly unprecedented when considering how bad our IF has been. He could hit .450 and it would be ignored. Naw, if he is as bad as you believe, other MLB retreads should at AAA instead of this poor sap. We have umpteen of them.

 

If he was anywhere other than Colorado Springs, he'd likely be hitting .270 with zero power and we'd all never have heard of him.

 

I CANNOT wait to get out of Colorado Springs.

 

He is as bad as I believe. Ask all 30 MLB GMs that have never drafted him in the rule 5 draft where is free for the taking, offered a bag of baseballs to Stearns for him in a trade (I'd have to imagine Stearns would give him away if offered), or gotten called up over some terrible performances by the Brewers.

[pacopete4]

Orf has a .663 OPS on the road and a .250 average.

 

Maaaaaaybe that’s a big reason he’s not given an opportunity.

[bill hAll Star]

Orf has a .663 OPS on the road and a .250 average.

 

Maaaaaaybe that’s a big reason he’s not given an opportunity.

 

[tmwiese55]

Keep making a clearly asinine argument about how us sitting at the computer are in the same caliber of player as a pile of guys playing AAA baseball right now, while acting like I'm the one being ridiculous.

 

So after a year of being awful they should just stick the scouting report on a guy who was never really gonna be anything more than a blah backup utility guy? I hope you're not also one who wanted Braun benched after two weeks this year. They are clearly wrong on Sogard but we're just supposed to ride it out all year because someone is being stubborn. Even the best scouts should realize that this is an inexact science and I don't know how anyone could project any of these blah AAA guys noticeably different than the others, none of them are true MLB caliber. Their best guess was on Sogard, they've given it a good run and it looks like they're wrong. Now, make your next best guess which was Saladino. He got hurt, now make your next best guess. I don't care if it's Orf, I have no opinion on the guy. I'm saying anyone in any organization doing well at AAA right now is almost impossible for anyone to be worse than Sogard. Apparently that's crazy though.

 

And note, I'm by no means a nitpicker and bash the FO type. Overall they clearly know what they're doing. If anything I've always been on the just relax and let things play out side of things as people jump to conclusions, I doubt you can recall me talking in this way on really anything. But this one is just wrong to still have this guy on the roster. That said, I do think they're aware and that's why Saladino/Miller are here. They likely just don't want to bother getting yet another guy (3rd guy) to address and just want to wait for Saladino to get back. Hindsight, they should have done it several weeks ago though.

[bill hAll Star]

Keep making a clearly asinine argument about how us sitting at the computer are in the same caliber of player as a pile of guys playing AAA baseball right now, while acting like I'm the one being ridiculous.

 

So after a year of being awful they should just stick the scouting report on a guy who was never really gonna be anything more than a blah backup utility guy? I hope you're not also one who wanted Braun benched after two weeks this year. They are clearly wrong on Sogard but we're just supposed to ride it out all year because someone is being stubborn. Even the best scouts should realize that this is an inexact science and I don't know how anyone could project any of these blah AAA guys noticeably different than the others, none of them are true MLB caliber. Their best guess was on Sogard, they've given it a good run and it looks like they're wrong. Now, make your next best guess which was Saladino. He got hurt, now make your next best guess. I don't care if it's Orf, I have no opinion on the guy. I'm saying anyone in any organization doing well at AAA right now is almost impossible for anyone to be worse than Sogard. Apparently that's crazy though.

 

And note, I'm by no means a nitpicker and bash the FO type. Overall they clearly know what they're doing. If anything I've always been on the just relax and let things play out side of things as people jump to conclusions, I doubt you can recall me talking in this way on really anything. But this one is just wrong to still have this guy on the roster. That said, I do think they're aware and that's why Saladino/Miller are here. They likely just don't want to bother getting yet another guy (3rd guy) to address and just want to wait for Saladino to get back. Hindsight, they should have done it several weeks ago though.

 

A few posts above me, read it:

 

Orf is hitting .250 with a .650 OPS on the road this year.

 

Last year was a bit better at .285/.800 on the road (again, the PCL is great for hitters but Colorado Springs is at another level). And again, even with decent road #s, the home video game numbers were still there boosting him up.

 

I agree with you. Sogard stinks. Try something else. Like try Nick Franklin, Tyler Saladino, Brad Miller, Andres Blanco is even queued up. They're trying and eventually Sogard may get chopped. I'll agree that maybe he already should've been with some of the other utility guys they've tried. They're doing exactly what you are asking for. They've acquired several AAA/AAAA guys but given that other teams need AAA depth, they can't acquire 10 of them. They've used or acquired 4 or 5 already.

 

Do not try Nate Orf. He is putting up Sogard-esque numbers at age 28 in AAA when not in Colorado Springs. That's all I'm saying. If we did not have a minor league affiliate in Colorado Springs, you'd have never heard of this guy.

[FVBrewerFan]

It's funny to me that Hager and Moore would likely produce better results than Orf at the MLB level, but that's the only name most people throw out there all season.

 

Hager, for example, hit .892 in Biloxi before being promoted recently, and he doesn't strikeout a ton. And he's 25. And even at that, he isn't all that intriguing to me, but certainly moreso that Orf.