Tyler Saladino a Brewer [7/5 -- back from injury & in the starting lineup]

[rickh150]

Saladino hits well in 37 ABs and he is automatically better than Sogard? Yet, If I bring Sogard's stellar PH stats this season, it's too small a sample size? Bring up all of Sogard

2017, and it's not current enough or a fluke (or Villar 2016 is brought up).

 

Start/play Saladino until he cools down, sure. Just puzzling why the wide gulf is between these two backup infielders in some people's minds.

 

Overall, Franklin, Villar, Sogard, Saladino, and Perez are about the same player. I prefer my backup IF to be fairly solid defensively, contact hitters, and smart on the bases. I have more confidence, even now, with Sogard coming in to get an at bat with men on base and two outs than the others. He seems to be the one who can handle higher velocity, as well, and that is what you get in the 8th and 9th. His LD % is above league avg, even now. Should Sogard be getting tons of at bats with any MLB team now the way he is hitting? No. Starting daily? No. I know he has to be better. Yet, compared to these other options on our beloved team, I still prefer Sogard in many ways.

[rickh150]

Saladino might end up being a flash in the pan too, but he's 4 years younger than Sogard, is a proven much better defender than Sogard, and unlike Sogard, can hit a baseball more than 300 feet.

 

Not a difficult choice.

 

Saladino hit .178 with a .254 OBP in 2017 for the White Sox.

Wanna guess how many HRs he hit? As many as me. Yet he did it in 281 PA...

 

Play the guy, sure. I hope he turns into an above avg SS or 2B. I hope his d proves to be good. Better than what they have now? Eh... we'll see, but probably not.

[rickh150]

How is his guy THaT much better than what we have? Glad he's coming back, I guess, but isn't he a combo of players we have?

 

By your posts, you act like there is a large gulf in difference between Sogard and Saladino, rather than a small stream. Sogard? Get rid of him. Saladino? So glad he is coming back on the team.

 

I believe he’s a better defender than Sogard. And I think the gap lies in Saladino having more than double the OPS of Sogard. So yes hallelujah Saladino is close cause hopefully that means Sogard will be gone.

 

 

 

37 ABs this season for Brewers.... Career OPS is .627 to Sogard's .625

[KeithStone53151]

One thing you can say about Saladino that you can't about Sogard...Saladino is a solid defender, much better than Sogard. If over 1000 PA they project to hit the same, it's a no brainer that you'd want the better defender. Especially when said better defender is currently hitting better.

 

Now if Saladino comes back and struggles over the first couple weeks, he can be replaced at the deadline. I don't expect struggling players to maintain roster spots at the end of July.

[adambr2]

Context is important. In 2017, the White Sox tried to change Saladino's swing. Prior to that he had a respectable .725 OPS and 8 HR in 319 PAs in 2016. Given that he went back to that swing I'd guess he'll be closer to his 2016 than '17.

 

Saladino is a better and more versatile defender. Miller gives you the lefty bat. So yeah, once Saladino is back Sogard doesn't have a role and that's a good thing.

[Fear The Chorizo]

If Saladino's and Sogard's 2018 offensive #'s were exactly the same brutal 0.141 BA and 16 OPS+ (lol) and I had to pick one for the roster, I'd still take Saladino over Sogard because he's the better and more versatile defensive player. Simple as that.

[rickh150]

If Saladino's and Sogard's 2018 offensive #'s were exactly the same brutal 0.141 BA and 16 OPS+ (lol) and I had to pick one for the roster, I'd still take Saladino over Sogard because he's the better and more versatile defensive player. Simple as that.

 

So throw those 2017 numbers out? Forget them. Me? I can't do that.

 

When anyone gets on base about 40% of the time in a full Major League Baseball, I sit up and take notice. When one has more walks than K's in it, I am even more impressed. That is what Sogard did last season, and that is why he still is on this roster, IMO. No one in our middle IF group of outcasts has anything close to those kind of numbers for a season. The fact that they happened just last year makes me want to give Sogard more opportunities, kinda like CC giving 5 months to Villar in 2017.

[SomewhereInTime]

If Saladino's and Sogard's 2018 offensive #'s were exactly the same brutal 0.141 BA and 16 OPS+ (lol) and I had to pick one for the roster, I'd still take Saladino over Sogard because he's the better and more versatile defensive player. Simple as that.

 

So throw those 2017 numbers out? Forget them. Me? I can't do that.

 

When anyone gets on base about 40% of the time in a full Major League Baseball, I sit up and take notice. When one has more walks than K's in it, I am even more impressed. That is what Sogard did last season, and that is why he still is on this roster, IMO. No one in our middle IF group of outcasts has anything close to those kind of numbers for a season. The fact that they happened just last year makes me want to give Sogard more opportunities, kinda like CC giving 5 months to Villar in 2017.

 

I agree completely, after what Sogard was able to do last season, I am fine with giving him more than 100 PAs this year to right the ship.

[burnzy24]

When anyone gets on base about 40% of the time in a full Major League Baseball, I sit up and take notice. When one has more walks than K's in it, I am even more impressed. That is what Sogard did last season, and that is why he still is on this roster, IMO. No one in our middle IF group of outcasts has anything close to those kind of numbers for a season. The fact that they happened just last year makes me want to give Sogard more opportunities, kinda like CC giving 5 months to Villar in 2017.

 

2017 was also only the second time in his career his on base percentage was over .300 and it was the only time he has ever walked more than he struck out. His career stats are that he has 2x as many strikeouts than walks. 2017 was Sogard catching lightning in a bottle for a few weeks and then reverting back to his career norms. He is 32 and highly unlikely to replicate 2017. Saladino is only 28 and is much more versatile. I'll take Saladino over Sogard any day.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Sogard's 2017 season was only 94 mlb games, so stop acting like it was a full year. Calling that a full season is alot like calling his 2018 a full year at this point.

 

His 2017 numbers are inflated due to an insanely hot 3-4 week stretch when he was first brought in. Aside from that, he reverted to his career averages of being bad.

 

Although I guess if he's a late inning pinch hitter extraordinaire the brewers could probably get some great value by trading him when their roster runs out of room...sheesh

 

Of all the MIF outcasts on the roster, Sogard would travel the farthest if you threw him out, partially because he weighs 75 pounds, but mostly because he's the worst player.

[JohnBriggs12]

I understand that if you gave them both 1000 PA, the projections systems wouldn't forecast Saladino and Sogard to be that different (though I think Saladino is still comfortably better), but even assuming they are similar players you have to take into account how they are performing this season. Saladino has looked very solid, Sogard has looked completely lost by any measure. It's not a difficult choice.

 

Sogard has a higher than average line drive percentage. He's not completely lost. I'm not knocking Saladino who was swinging it very well in under 40 plate appearances. But he hasn't played in over a month, and he's a guy who hit .178/.254/.229 in a not so small sample last season. So you don't know what you'll get from him when he returns.

 

I do agree that Saladino's a better defensive SS than Sogard, but Sogard's passable. I just think some are overreacting to Saladino's offensive burst in a very small sample. The solution to the issue at SS is to trade for an established guy, and there's certainly names out there.

[pacopete4]

Let’s just cut them both and end the madness.

[KeithStone53151]

I understand that if you gave them both 1000 PA, the projections systems wouldn't forecast Saladino and Sogard to be that different (though I think Saladino is still comfortably better), but even assuming they are similar players you have to take into account how they are performing this season. Saladino has looked very solid, Sogard has looked completely lost by any measure. It's not a difficult choice.

 

Sogard has a higher than average line drive percentage. He's not completely lost. I'm not knocking Saladino who was swinging it very well in under 40 plate appearances. But he hasn't played in over a month, and he's a guy who hit .178/.254/.229 in a not so small sample last season. So you don't know what you'll get from him when he returns.

 

I do agree that Saladino's a better defensive SS than Sogard, but Sogard's passable. I just think some are overreacting to Saladino's offensive burst in a very small sample. The solution to the issue at SS is to trade for an established guy, and there's certainly names out there.

 

I agree with a lot of this. Based on the eye test, Sogard his lining out an awful lot. All you can ask of a guy like Sogard is to hit the ball hard. He's doing it and still getting out fairly often, that will inevitably change.

 

Even with noting that, I prefer Saladino for the defense. I don't think anyone expects Saladino to post 900 ops upon his return. But he did enough before his injury to earn a look upon his return. Even if Saladino looks pretty good in his first couple weeks back, I could see moving Sogard for an established SS rental and working a timeshare of sorts. Villar might lose a couple starts at 2b in this scenario, but you could easily get 3 guys plenty of playing time at 2 spots.

[jerichoholicninja]

Let’s just cut them both and end the madness.

 

Pretty much how I feel about this whole argument. We're bickering over which of our crappy middle infielders is the best. The answer is none. None of Arcia, Sogard, Saladino, or Villar should be starting for a first place team yet two currently are and all four have taken just about every middle infield plate appearance in 2018. I'll even throw Perez into that black hole of suck.

 

Our SS's have put up a .500 OPS this year. That's not a typo. And that includes 29 PA of Saladino's .952 OPS as a SS. Our pitchers are hitting at a lower batting average and OBP of only about 40 points compared to the SS. That's embarrassing.

[tmwiese55]

This is simple to me. Saladino is clearly better at D by a wide margin. Big sample of O and chances are they're roughly equivalent htere, however Sogard has now had a good sample since his initial hot streak to start last year and has been awful ever since. Not just career standard 240/300ish awful, we're talking pitcher level hitter awful. While looking completely overwhelmed at the plate, so he might just be done. As long as Saladino just does the baseline awful 250/300 it's huge upgrade over what you can expect from Sogard to finish this season especially when you factor in the D.

 

Saladino vs Arcia is a different argument. At least Arcia has shown some flashes the last couple weeks of hard hit balls. Would be nice to get him 3-4 weeks in AAA and see if he can turn that into something legit.

[istanbultaye]

Even the Yankees, who I believe have the best record in all of baseball, have had Neil Walker still appearing on Baseball Reference as their "primary" 1b (he's still got more ABs than any other 1b they've had so far this year), sporting a .533 OPS. Their other 1B haven't been all that good either considering 1b is supposed to be an offensive position. They've got a LF and a C in the low .700s.

 

Obviously it would be great if our middle infield, and especially SS were hitting better, but I'd say it's a lot more "embarrassing" to have 1B OPSing sub .600 than for SS. I say all that to say this: Every team has a hole somewhere.

[YelichPosse]

I agree that Saladino is not the end all, but I think Sogard is even worse... but yes, this is a silly argument in all areas as we could use a little bump up for SS some how.

 

I think we all are just upset that Dubon got hurt because he may have been a more exciting replacement than anyone ....

 

I am trying to not let my distaste for Sogard to continue to get starts and important at bats over other folks to poison my thoughts, but its just so difficult. I mean no offense to anyone other than it makes me sick that we can't upgrade him in some way.

[rickh150]

This is simple to me. Saladino is clearly better at D by a wide margin. Big sample of O and chances are they're roughly equivalent htere, however Sogard has now had a good sample since his initial hot streak to start last year and has been awful ever since. Not just career standard 240/300ish awful, we're talking pitcher level hitter awful. While looking completely overwhelmed at the plate, so he might just be done. As long as Saladino just does the baseline awful 250/300 it's huge upgrade over what you can expect from Sogard to finish this season especially when you factor in the D.

 

Saladino vs Arcia is a different argument. At least Arcia has shown some flashes the last couple weeks of hard hit balls. Would be nice to get him 3-4 weeks in AAA and see if he can turn that into something legit.

 

You're giving Arcia, of all people, credit for hard hit balls? His LD% at 17%, and he's consistently hitting 0-2.

 

Funny thing is (and I agree with those who say to get rid of the whole lot for better players), we have very good hitting 2B at AA and AAA (Hiura and Orf) that just might be better than most mentioned.

[YelichPosse]

This is simple to me. Saladino is clearly better at D by a wide margin. Big sample of O and chances are they're roughly equivalent htere, however Sogard has now had a good sample since his initial hot streak to start last year and has been awful ever since. Not just career standard 240/300ish awful, we're talking pitcher level hitter awful. While looking completely overwhelmed at the plate, so he might just be done. As long as Saladino just does the baseline awful 250/300 it's huge upgrade over what you can expect from Sogard to finish this season especially when you factor in the D.

 

Saladino vs Arcia is a different argument. At least Arcia has shown some flashes the last couple weeks of hard hit balls. Would be nice to get him 3-4 weeks in AAA and see if he can turn that into something legit.

 

You're giving Arcia, of all people, credit for hard hit balls? His LD% at 17%, and he's consistently hitting 0-2.

 

Funny thing is (and I agree with those who say to get rid of the whole lot for better players), we have very good hitting 2B at AA and AAA (Hiura and Orf) that just might be better than most mentioned.

 

I've said it in the Hiura thread, but - Hiura up to play 2b , moving Villar to split time with Arcia maybe.... and then rid ourselves of Sogard... that would be the ultimate upgrade short term, wouldn't it? His bat is ML ready. His spray chart is absolutely delightful. That will translate to the big show. And from the small sample size at AA playing 2B, he's not been a butcher.... leads me to think this may be the best (and cost no prospects) upgrade up the middle....

[bill hAll Star]

This is simple to me. Saladino is clearly better at D by a wide margin. Big sample of O and chances are they're roughly equivalent htere, however Sogard has now had a good sample since his initial hot streak to start last year and has been awful ever since. Not just career standard 240/300ish awful, we're talking pitcher level hitter awful. While looking completely overwhelmed at the plate, so he might just be done. As long as Saladino just does the baseline awful 250/300 it's huge upgrade over what you can expect from Sogard to finish this season especially when you factor in the D.

 

Saladino vs Arcia is a different argument. At least Arcia has shown some flashes the last couple weeks of hard hit balls. Would be nice to get him 3-4 weeks in AAA and see if he can turn that into something legit.

 

You're giving Arcia, of all people, credit for hard hit balls? His LD% at 17%, and he's consistently hitting 0-2.

 

Funny thing is (and I agree with those who say to get rid of the whole lot for better players), we have very good hitting 2B at AA and AAA (Hiura and Orf) that just might be better than most mentioned.

 

Orf is not an MLB baseball player. I'm convinced of this. We have a front office that consistently has our team exceeding projections every year and apparently have zero intent on ever calling up Orf and there is probably a very good reason for this. Yes, there is always the Scooter counterexample but I really have a hard time finding any hitter of Orf's ilk that has ever made it in the majors.

 

He doesn't have the skillset to make it in the majors. He's a poor man's Sogard IMO.

 

It's possible that his hitting style could come up and outhit Sogard or Arcia for a while because the bar is so low but I think between superior defense and upside of Arcia finding his way back to a .700 OPS is worth just sticking with all of these guys. I'm not completely familiar with Orf, but unless he's a wizard in the field I'd rather just go with Saladino, Arcia, Sogard, or even Miller at SS. Miller is an average/above average hitter if platooned for a SS even if his defense could be very questionable.

[pacopete4]

The Braves seem to have like 10, 19 year olds. Get Hiura to the show after the break.

[tmwiese55]

This is simple to me. Saladino is clearly better at D by a wide margin. Big sample of O and chances are they're roughly equivalent htere, however Sogard has now had a good sample since his initial hot streak to start last year and has been awful ever since. Not just career standard 240/300ish awful, we're talking pitcher level hitter awful. While looking completely overwhelmed at the plate, so he might just be done. As long as Saladino just does the baseline awful 250/300 it's huge upgrade over what you can expect from Sogard to finish this season especially when you factor in the D.

 

Saladino vs Arcia is a different argument. At least Arcia has shown some flashes the last couple weeks of hard hit balls. Would be nice to get him 3-4 weeks in AAA and see if he can turn that into something legit.

 

You're giving Arcia, of all people, credit for hard hit balls? His LD% at 17%, and he's consistently hitting 0-2.

 

Funny thing is (and I agree with those who say to get rid of the whole lot for better players), we have very good hitting 2B at AA and AAA (Hiura and Orf) that just might be better than most mentioned.

 

You're reading too much into it. I said at least Arcia has hit a few balls hard the last couple weeks, much better than he has previously. So I was just saying hopefully it was a sign he was improving a bit and going in the right direction. then I said he should still go down to AAA and see if he can get better. Basically if he can get close to last year, he's fine. By no means was I trying to say he's been the victim of bad luck this year, like someone was trying to do with Sogard earlier

 

Specific to a Salad vs Arcia debate it just becomes closer. Arcia with better D and say Arcia improved just a bit the gap closes and who knows. Right now, you still go with Saladino, as noted when I said to still send Arcia.

 

All that said, I'm fine with the idea of rushing Hiuira to try and fix this problem. Get him some time at AAA now and then hopefully up soon after. All these guys we're talking about are stopgaps and best case scenario is 'respectable non pitcher level competency', which obviously isn't much. Huira could get you a near Braun like impact. not predicting it, but it's possible.

[MadScientist]

When Saladino comes back, should Sogard or Arcia go down? Sogard has been worse, but Arcia hopefully will benefit more from improving his swing in AAA.

[tmwiese55]

Both down and a P back up (assuming Santana isn't needed yet)? You'd have all your infield covered with Saladino, Villar, Miller, Perez

[KeithStone53151]

When Saladino comes back, should Sogard or Arcia go down? Sogard has been worse, but Arcia hopefully will benefit more from improving his swing in AAA.

 

I think Arcia should go down for regular at bats. Sogard should be cut at some point in July, either for Arcia or for a trade deadline target.