Jhoulys Chacin

[TJseven7]

Defense top 5... you lost me. Otherwise I'm on board. 1b 2b RF we still smell. SS kids being a kid.

[82brewcrew82]

I'm not a huge Chacin fan but I don't mind him. I don't particularly care how he slots into the rotation, who he was signed to replace or what his ERA was at Coors three years ago. Whatever they thought of him when they signed him, his performance to date is not what they paid for and he needs to be better or getting to a healthy Nelson may not matter. I know for a lot of us (me included) this pitching staff was on shaky ground and seeing that come to fruition this early is disappointing. Having said that, it is early and more time is warranted before judgments are made.

[A Swing and A Drive]

This is not starting a thread just because a player is off to a poor start, if so I could have made one about Orlando Arcia.

 

I've watched Chacin pitch for years and I was never a fan. He doesn't K anyone and his stuff simply is not very good, IMO.

 

I know after the signing Brewer fans had on their rose colored glasses and was hoping Stearns discovered another late blooming pitcher like Chase Anderson but I simply don't think Chacin has the talent and is a replacement level player. Just calling a spade a spade, unfortuately. As a Brewer fan who hangs on every pitch, I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong.

 

I don't doubt that the signing of Chacin was just to eat innings to build a bridge to our younger arms that are nearly MLB-ready.

 

If that's the case however, I believe that the Cain signing and the Yelich trade were done with an eye on truly competing in 2020-2022, and having this year and next as the last of the rebuild. This also would explain why the Brewers did not sign a better quality/higher priced starting pitcher.

 

Personally, I had higher hopes for the Brewers this season after we over-achieved last year and I am fine tempering my 2018 expectations a bit for the greater good in the long haul.

 

I simply may not enjoy watching Chacin pitch in a Brewers uniform until he moves aside to let the younger pitchers get more MLB experience.

[Boomer5]

Since his last year that mattered before 2017 was 2013, then yes you ignore them.

In order to ignore older data you'd have to prove the stuff has changed. Chacin has never been a hard thrower, and he's always been pretty a sinker/slider guy. But if you want to try to prove it, go for it. I'll wait.

 

Ignore history at your own peril.

 

History is full of pitchers who had one good year and a few meh years and never do much after that. The most recent history of any kind of success after 2013 is 2017 which not coincidentally happens to be in a pitchers park. Away from there he was horrible. The odds of a 30 year old pitcher magically rediscovering his 2013 hitters park magic are remote.

 

But as you say, ignore history if you wish, because it isn’t kind to this fellows outlook, but you knew that and are just being argumentative.

[And That]

But as you say, ignore history if you wish, because it isn’t kind to this fellows outlook, but you knew that

Lol.

[TJseven7]

"'If thats the case however, I believe that the Cain signing and the Yelich trade were done with an eye on truly competing in 2020-2022, and having this year and next as the last of the rebuild. This also would explain why the Brewers did not sign a better quality/higher priced starting pitcher."

 

I'd think its more 2018.5-2022. We've already seen Houser Woodruff Williams so they aren't messing around. They could have easily toyed with yo and a few retreds but the kids are getting a crack at this. Most everyone figured Burnes Peralta would be hidden in AA to avoid CS this year but they got very agressive with their pitching promotions.

 

CC already pointed to June for not only Burnes but Peralta. I was stunned by June and the inclusion of Peralta. This wave of arms (Williams Burnes Peralta) is coming soon and it's likely to displace woodruff suter.

 

Anderson Davies Chacin Burnes Peralta... Guerra Miley Woodruff hanging around... waiting on Nelson

Barnes Albers Hader Williams Jeffress Jennings Suter... drake hoover logan lopez houser hanging around... waiting on Knebel.

 

That tightens up quickly. They aren't holding these kids back. I think once the service clock gets settled they go live and our season depends on them.

[A Swing and A Drive]

2018.5 is unrealistic if you ask me.

 

Young pitchers usually go through growing pains for their first season or two in the league. Just because they have great minor league track records and/or prospect pedigrees doesn't mean that they enter the majors to immediate success.

 

However, the ups and downs they might experience at the MLB level during the next two seasons will be invaluable starting in 2020 and going forward.

 

That's the beauty of the last phase of a rebuild.

[monty57]

If that's the case however, I believe that the Cain signing and the Yelich trade were done with an eye on truly competing in 2020-2022, and having this year and next as the last of the rebuild. This also would explain why the Brewers did not sign a better quality/higher priced starting pitcher.

 

Personally, I had higher hopes for the Brewers this season after we over-achieved last year and I am fine tempering my 2018 expectations a bit for the greater good in the long haul.

 

I think, or at least hope, that it means we should stop looking at things in the light of "this means we're trying to compete from {enter beginning year} to {enter ending year}," and start looking at trying to build a team that will attempt to remain competitive year-in and year-out.

 

The Marlins situation gave several teams (including the Brewers) a chance to acquire one of the league's premiere players, so they took that chance. That left them with enough money for one big free agent signing and several smaller, hole-patching contracts. Chacin is more of a hole-patch deal than a team-changing deal. The team-changing deal was between signing Cain or one of the "big four" starting pitchers. They chose Cain.

 

I'd love to have more starting pitching, but I realize that we're still in the early stages of turning this franchise from one that occasionally tries to get a one-year playoff shot to one that looks more like the Cardinals. That's a long-term goal. We seem to be a little ahead of where most people expected us to be, and we have some long-term answers at multiple positions along with a strong farm that will continue to add talent to the MLB roster. But we're still not "there" yet. While I would really like to see us beat out the Cubs this year, our realistic expectations were to be in the hunt for one of the Wild Card spots this season.

 

Eleven games into the season, I don't think that expectation has changed.

[TJseven7]

"Young pitchers usually go through growing pains for their first season or two in the league. Just because they have great minor league track records and/or prospect pedigrees doesn't mean that they enter the majors to immediate success."

 

The bar is set pretty low so far. Really anything sub 4.7 would go a long way.

[Thurston Fluff]

Brewers didn’t sign him to be a #5. They expected him to be closer to a #3. So him being a #5 is kind of a problem.

I doubt the Brewers have any internal definition of "a #3" or "a #5" pitcher. They signed Chacin to be... Chacin.

 

I think the problem is some fans wanted more and take their frustration out on who we did sign.

[Tbadder]

I doubt that Stearns signed Chacin as a contender piece. I could be wrong, but then I’d have to worry about his definition of contender. I think he signed Chacin to be a bridge to Ortiz et al. I think the proof of that is the 2year contract and the reasonable terms. Stearns knew that Chacin would struggle and he is. I also think that Stearns knew he would have a good run of games sometime during the 2018 season. That good run of games just isn’t happening now. Hopefully this will come later.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I suppose I don't understand why a GM would sign a guy that he knew would struggle.

 

I guess....you get what you pay for?

[Never Outhustled]

He’s a bad pitcher away from Petco

Bunk. He has a career 4.19 ERA outside of Petco, including a career 4.23 ERA pitching at Coors Field.

 

He's been a better pitcher (using ERA) at Comerica Park, Nationals Park, and AT&T Park. He has a sub-4.00 ERA in 12 different parks.

 

6.53 ERA last year away from Petco with a 851 OPS.

 

He is absolutely a bad pitcher away from Petco. Btw, Miller park is away from Petco.

 

Most players play better at home. Chacin is one of them. He was effective at home at Coors Field, so it's not surprising he's also effective at home at Miller Park.

 

He's a good pitcher, who might become even more under Dereck Johnson.

[liveforoctober]

I suppose I don't understand why a GM would sign a guy that he knew would struggle.

 

I guess....you get what you pay for?

 

I'll be randomly picking comments like these throughout the year as Chacin settles into a groove just to reemphasize David Stearns knows more than we do. Nothing against you ASAAD, you are juyst first.

 

6 shutout.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I suppose I don't understand why a GM would sign a guy that he knew would struggle.

 

I guess....you get what you pay for?

 

I'll be randomly picking comments like these throughout the year as Chacin settles into a groove just to reemphasize David Stearns knows more than we do. Nothing against you ASAAD, you are juyst first.

 

6 shutout.

 

That seems like a recipe for disaster. Calling out other posters with "I told you so" stuff isn't a brilliant idea.

 

Also, all players, even bad ones, have good games. I'm going to grade these guys based on consistency. Chacin looked fine yesterday, but wiggled out of trouble. Don't forget he was also pitching against a AAA lineup.

[pacopete4]

An AAA roster? No. They’re major leaguers. Good ones? No. But they’re major leaguers. It’s a cop out to say otherwise. Chacin pitched well and that’s a good thing for the Brewers.

[homer]

I suppose I don't understand why a GM would sign a guy that he knew would struggle.

 

I guess....you get what you pay for?

 

I'll be randomly picking comments like these throughout the year as Chacin settles into a groove just to reemphasize David Stearns knows more than we do. Nothing against you ASAAD, you are juyst first.

 

6 shutout.

 

Please don't.

[Underachiever]

I suppose I don't understand why a GM would sign a guy that he knew would struggle.

 

I guess....you get what you pay for?

 

I'll be randomly picking comments like these throughout the year as Chacin settles into a groove just to reemphasize David Stearns knows more than we do. Nothing against you ASAAD, you are juyst first.

 

6 shutout.

Or you could, you know, just let it go. It's a freaking message board, not a deposition. Go Brewers!

[Thurston Fluff]

Does anyone know enough about him to know if he's a hot and cold sort of pitcher or one that is consistent? I ask because I always felt a guy who predictably gives you an average outing was better for the team than one who is great one day and terrible the next. Even if the numbers at the end of the year are identical how you get there has an effect IMHO.

[liveforoctober]

My bad guys, it was a joke about HH19 .. sorry it didn't play. Chacin has been terrible thus far, one game against the Marlins doesn't change the season.

 

Hopefully ASAAD didn't take it the wrong way. My apologies!

 

Go Crew!

[Fear The Chorizo]

Chacin had a good season by his recent standards last year, and even that took him almost two months before he started stringing together a series of good (not great) starts. He's going to always have the occasional blowup game, but when he's going good he's dependable for the quality start definition (6ip, 3 runs or less) that at minimum gives his team a solid shot at winning.

 

Never going to give you a ton of 8ip 1 ER type starts, he's best suited to get you 2.5 - 3 times.through the batting order.

[LaprilOne]

We have to keep seeing Chacin, as he is the only hitter worse than Ben Sheets

[JohnBriggs12]

We have to keep seeing Chacin, as he is the only hitter worse than Ben Sheets

 

???? Chacin is a career .187 hitter which makes him one of the better hitting pitchers in baseball.

[LaprilOne]

Well you got me there John. Guess I was just influenced by his at bats last night!

[Thurston Fluff]

We have to keep seeing Chacin, as he is the only hitter worse than Ben Sheets

 

???? Chacin is a career .187 hitter which makes him one of the better hitting pitchers in baseball.

 

Yea but what was his OPS+?