Jhoulys Chacin

[A Swing and A Drive]

Let's recap Golden Boy GM David Stearns 3 free agent starting pitcher signings this offseason.

 

SP Jhoulys Chacin

SP Yovani Gallardo

SP Wade Miley

 

Um....terrible.

 

Obviously Gallardo and Miley were signed to minor league deals and much wasn't expected of them but Chacin inked a two-year deal.

 

I realize that 3 starts is a small sample size but he hasn't pitched 6 innings in any of them.

 

13 2/3 Ip and he has allowed 19 hits but more alarming is 7bb to 7k ratio.

 

6.59 ERA and 1.90 WHIP

 

Hopefully he shuts me up and tosses a gem vs. Thor this Sunday but I'm just not seeing it with this guy.

 

I understand that people are going to think this is an over reaction to a slow start to the season but if you look at his career numbers Chacin doesn't seem like anything more than a #5 starter on a non-contending team.

 

Anyone else concerned that he doesn't make it through the year in our rotation?

[MillerParkSouth]

It's April

[pacopete4]

“Golden boy” ....

[Boomer5]

He’s a bad pitcher away from Petco who should never have been signed as anything other than a contender for our number 5.

 

I have no idea why Stearns signed this guy to be a key part of our rotation if his was plan was to seriously contend for a WC.

[djoctagone]

Obviously Gallardo and Miley were signed to minor league deals and much wasn't expected of them but Chacin inked a two-year deal.

gallardo was signed to a major league deal, which meant that he took up a spot on the 40-man roster that could've gone to another player.

[PeaveyFury]

Obviously Gallardo and Miley were signed to minor league deals and much wasn't expected of them but Chacin inked a two-year deal.

gallardo was signed to a major league deal, which meant that he took up a spot on the 40-man roster that could've gone to another player.

 

Did we lose someone that you preferred to keep? If not, does that point really matter?

[Fear The Chorizo]

Chacin is what he is - in looking at his game logs even from last season where he had a pretty decent year, he's not going to get you deep into games on a consistent basis. Chacin also started 2017 off terribly - it wasn't really until June when he started grouping quality starts together, and he performed well from then to season's end, but it wasn't like he was putting up 8IP/1ER type starts much at all. He's a good #5 starter for a contending team that shouldn't be relied on to consistently mow through a batting order 3 times every start, and his contract pays him as such - the problem for the Brewers right now is he's essentially their #3 with Nelson out and Suter/Woodruff mightily struggling. At least Davies and Anderson have righted things a bit - hopefully that continues.

 

Right now the Brewers have 3 rotation spots where they're lucky to get 5IP from their starter and still be in the game - obviously not good enough. But, it's early and one thing the Brewers appear to have are rotation options - I'm not high on Miley, but let's see how things shake out over the next few weeks to see what type of role he could fill for the MLB club. I think tonight's start may (and should) be Suter's last shot at staying in the rotation.

 

He’s a bad pitcher away from Petco who should never have been signed as anything other than a contender for our number 5.

 

Which is exactly what I think he'll be in a couple months. The Brewers are 7% into this season and currently sport a winning record despite feeling like they should be 1-10 at times...with what they currently have on their 40-man roster and other young pitchers starting to appear more than ready in the high minors, it appears that Stearns is taking the approach of a steady shuttle of arms between AAA and Milwaukee to fill the bottom of the rotation/long relief role with a pile of #5-caliber starters to keep key late inning relievers from being overused - especially with Knebel out for awhile now. I expect that to continue until enough pitchers' performances warrant consistent starts.

[pacopete4]

I’m just wonder who will not play well tonight so I can get busy on creating a thread for tomorrow.

[TJseven7]

Chacin didn't play his whole career in Petco folks. He put up good work in Coors for awhile too. Let's stop using last year as the basis for everything. Also when was 4 era 180 ip a 5? 1992? He's a 4.0 for his career. That's not a 5.

 

Grouping these 3... ok all 3 combined are cheaper than Lynn or Cobb and no pick required. They are cheap. Cheap cheap cheap. Stearns made it very obvious that this is an add an ace or grow from within franchise this offseason. We added 3 cheap stop gap adds and people are mad about the results? Stop gap contracts are supposed to fail... its why they are cheap. Hit 1 and you're brilliant (morton). Yo is already gone .5mil wasted. Miley didn't pitch yet. Chacin's been rough but in all honesty got 2 runs handed to him due to being squeezed last night. Game 1 he was squeezed, any breaker on the corner was a ball. He's better than this and has been for years.

 

Golden boy also has Burnes flying up the farm. Zach Browns jumping as fast and there's Jankins round 13 looking like Woody part 2. Golden boy traded Lind for a handful that includes Peralta he's #2 on the promote list. The staff is 2-3 months from adding 3 starting arms and we aren't even using Woodruff yet. That's not the end of the list either.

 

6-5 chill out. Everyone freaked that he under-did the pen last year. Hader called up and swarzak jeffress for next to nothing sured that up fast. Jump forward 1 year we got dudes in the minors who we want to see pitch MORE in our pen. Despite paying Albers Jeffress Jenning and Logan next to nothing. Despite 2 guys being hurt. Starters are going to be that way by next year... if not sooner.

 

We got way way ahead of ourselves cuz we got results last year. Results are showing before the puzzle is fully inplace though. Give it time.

[coolhandluke121]

Let's stop using last year as the basis for everything.

 

 

Good luck with that.

 

I agree with pretty much the whole post. I would add that the important thing was not to compromise their long-term interests. With that in mind, Chacin was a good acquisition. Don't understand how people can seriously expect them to put together a good rotation with what they inherited just a few years ago, especially with Nelson being hurt. It's like some people want them to be the 2000's Yankees in the offseason. And even the Yankees can no longer afford to make such poor free agent decisions without completely ****** themselves over.

 

The rotation is not better because there were no good options at a reasonable price in salary, years, trade cost, and/or draft pick forfeitures. All you can ask of them is to not do anything stupid under the circumstances, and they didn't. All the upgrades that were deemed significant had huge red flags. Stay away. Good boy.

 

ETA:

Results are showing before the puzzle is fully inplace though. Give it time.

 

Forgot to quote this. Most important part of the post. People are letting last year get their expectations completely out of whack. All we can do is hope and pray Mark A will respect the process, unlike some of these fans. They literally are using last year's success as grounds to say Stearns is doing a bad job. It makes no sense; you can't make this stuff up. Fans like that don't deserve a good team, EVER. They should go be fans of the Bucks, who will cater to their desire for impulsive moves and their delusional ideas about how soon they should be ready to contend, destroying their long-term chances while doing almost nothing to improve their short-term chances the whole while.

[sveumrules]

Not concerned at all.

 

Chacin had a 7.20 ERA after three starts last season & ended up at 3.89. His ERA at this point (or any stat for any player at this point really) has almost zero predictive value.

 

If he continues to pitch poorly he can be jettisoned at minimal financial hindrance & we can see what one of the youngsters is capable of. If he returns to around his career norms he's an adequate MLB starter.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I hated this signing and still don't like it but this is going to be a long a** season if we're making threads for everyone who sucked last night.

 

The team is playing horribly everywhere but the pen, even there the closer is on the DL, and they're 6-5. They're fine right now.

[JosephC]

“Golden boy” ....

 

I prefer "boy wonder."

[TJseven7]

Luke:

 

Bucks reference was a hard one for me to avoid. Basically look at snell telly delly. Snell was seen as great last year... hes really not different this year... except he's paid 11 mil so expectations are different. Delly telly hate for many quickly was all contract size. I have low expectations for Yo Miley Suter and I'm down on Woody in the short term. Why are they bad... well cuz they are. Chacin's been bad, there's bad bounces in there and he's started seasons rough before. Davies has been a first month 9 era guy for 2 years in a row. He still ends up 3.9 era.

 

Chacin was 15.5/2 though. Its also front loaded a bit. He could end up trying a swarzak slider heavy BP role before thats over and at 6.75 mil he costs the same. If snell was 8/2 I wouldnt care. 11/4 is a long long time.

 

Also... look at houston. 2015 they came alive... watch out their on their way to dominence 86 wins is a springboard. How'd 2016 turn out? 84 wins no playoffs. Then only 101 and a WS because they put inplace the finishing touches.

 

Not saying we are on the same path but teams plateau on their rise all the time.

 

Right now this pen is exciting and deep beyond the 25 man.

You can see the starters on the way and 2 are June possible and Nelson's our team ace.

Is 1b 2b RF defense limited now... yes. Is C offense limited so far this year, yes. Is our SS flukey and lost at the plate... yes. 2 years... Phillips Dubon Erceg Hiura are just the 4 close enough to EXPECT. Trades? A gem add? A glue guy when it all sorts out? There's a long way up to go and the teams not far off .500 as is.

[coolhandluke121]

 

Also... look at houston. 2015 they came alive... watch out their on their way to dominence 86 wins is a springboard. How'd 2016 turn out? 84 wins no playoffs. Then only 101 and a WS because they put inplace the finishing touches.

 

 

Houston is an important example. They mostly stayed the course and built around their young core, but they did make a pretty impulsive decision to trade for Gomez and look how that turned out. Lesson learned. Fortunately they didn't make a lot of mistakes like that, but just imagine if they hadn't made any. The Brewers don't have quite the same young talent they did, so they can't afford any impulsive decisions like that, and that's exactly what they're being careful to avoid.

 

I do expect this to be a bit of a stumbling year, but they are doing everything they can reasonably be expected to do to stay in the wild card picture without compromising their chances of being one of 2 or 3 dominant NL teams in just a few years.

[And That]

I realize that 3 starts is a small sample size

Exactly.

[And That]

He’s a bad pitcher away from Petco

Bunk. He has a career 4.19 ERA outside of Petco, including a career 4.23 ERA pitching at Coors Field.

 

He's been a better pitcher (using ERA) at Comerica Park, Nationals Park, and AT&T Park. He has a sub-4.00 ERA in 12 different parks.

[3and2Fastball]

Chacin is what he is... He is a solid #5 who will have a 4.25-4.75 ERA or so. There is value in that. Not a bad signing at all.

 

 

Houston is an important example..... The Brewers don't have quite the same young talent they did.....

 

No kidding, huh? Definitely no Correa, Springer, Bregman coming up in the Brewers system. High hopes for Hiura, and there is some potential among our pitchers on the farm, but... Yeah... We ain't the Astros

[MrTPlush]

Brewers didn’t sign him to be a #5. They expected him to be closer to a #3. So him being a #5 is kind of a problem.

[TJseven7]

"I do expect this to be a bit of a stumbling year, but they are doing everything they can reasonably be expected to do to stay in the wild card picture without compromising their chances of being one of 2 or 3 dominant NL teams in just a few years."

 

I'm not sure I'm sold on that stumbling at this point. At least not season long. 4 of our 5 starters have been downright bad. (Although this is good for davies before may) 6-5 is a great place to be sitting. Teams got a ton of stored ammo. Nelson Burnes Peralta Woodruff... you really need 2 and things start looking up quick. Suter Chacin Woodruff have been awful. Offense wont hold these garbage numbers all year. Knebel at the deadline. That could be the equivalent of 3 huge trades.

 

Right now I'm rooting for wins just to stay at .500 until June. Don't bury yourself and it gets very interesting in June. Maybe the teams too young but what if Burnes or Peralta jump in and post sub 4 stuff from the jump (both capable I think) there are a lot of wins to be had. You won't win 100 stumbling out of the blocks but people have to realize... this teams just trying to float for 2.5 months.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Brewers didn’t sign him to be a #5. They expected him to be closer to a #3. So him being a #5 is kind of a problem.

 

 

That isn't true. I think they signed him to be a 4/5, the top 3 in this rotation are pretty clear When Nelson is there. They signed him hoping to get a slightly above 4 ERA guy who pitches 6 innings on a good night and gives the team a shot to win if they score 5 runs.

[TJseven7]

Chacin is what he is... He is a solid #5 who will have a 4.25-4.75 ERA or so. There is value in that. Not a bad signing at all.

 

 

Houston is an important example..... The Brewers don't have quite the same young talent they did.....

 

No kidding, huh? Definitely no Correa, Springer, Bregman coming up in the Brewers system. High hopes for Hiura, and there is some potential among our pitchers on the farm, but... Yeah... We ain't the Astros

 

Their staff depended on Dallas and Morton. Verlander saved the day. Their pen after 2 guys (not knebel hader even) was hot garbage. They ain't ahead everywhere.

 

Cain yelich braun/thames shaw santana aren't close defensively with their group but the hold up pretty admirably offensively.

 

You have to remember... Our era LAST YEAR was better than Houstons. Our pen was trash most of the year and we've listed the crap we started last year at nauseum. This is also why calling Chacin a 5 is nonsense. Houston would have killed for Nelson Anderson and Davies prior to adding Verlander. Our 1-2-3 was better. They'd have seen no resistence in the playoffs if they had the pen we closed the year with and its ecen better now.

[coolhandluke121]

Chacin is what he is... He is a solid #5 who will have a 4.25-4.75 ERA or so. There is value in that. Not a bad signing at all.

 

 

Houston is an important example..... The Brewers don't have quite the same young talent they did.....

 

No kidding, huh? Definitely no Correa, Springer, Bregman coming up in the Brewers system. High hopes for Hiura, and there is some potential among our pitchers on the farm, but... Yeah... We ain't the Astros

 

Which is exactly why I said they can't afford to make any impulsive mistakes, like when the Astros traded for Gomez or like how some Brewer fans want to trade for Archer. Less margin for error. I don't agree with the implication that you have to have blue-chip prospects to have a great future though. When you have as much depth and balance as the Brewers have, some prospects will surely emerge as future all-stars, even if they were never "can't-miss" prospects like some of the Astros' or Cubs' current best players.

[Boomer5]

He’s a bad pitcher away from Petco

Bunk. He has a career 4.19 ERA outside of Petco, including a career 4.23 ERA pitching at Coors Field.

 

He's been a better pitcher (using ERA) at Comerica Park, Nationals Park, and AT&T Park. He has a sub-4.00 ERA in 12 different parks.

 

6.53 ERA last year away from Petco with a 851 OPS.

 

He is absolutely a bad pitcher away from Petco. Btw, Miller park is away from Petco.

[pacopete4]

Brewers didn’t sign him to be a #5. They expected him to be closer to a #3. So him being a #5 is kind of a problem.

 

 

That isn't true. I think they signed him to be a 4/5, the top 3 in this rotation are pretty clear When Nelson is there. They signed him hoping to get a slightly above 4 ERA guy who pitches 6 innings on a good night and gives the team a shot to win if they score 5 runs.

 

Yep. Completely agree. Just because he pencils in as our "#3 guy" right now does not mean that is what he was signed for. He was a back end of the rotation piece that was supposed to be better than the collection of turds we had in those spots a year ago. I believe he still will be this guy throughout the course of his time as a Brewer.