How many Mental Mistakes before Counsell gets Fired?

[tmwiese55]

My guess is every fan base complains about the 3rd base coach getting guys thrown out too often and by "a mile"......you just notice your own coach because you don't pay attention to other teams nearly as closely.....and don't care when their guys get thrown out.

 

I doubt Seder is worse then average but I obviously have no data to back up my assumption.

 

I have that same fear. But then I think about how often it happens against us (the other team doing it when we play them) and I can't remember it ever happening. Any bang bang within a step or so I don't place any blame. That one a week or so back the guy was barely halfway when the catcher got it.

[danzig6767]

The team overachieved drastically last year and are 5-5 ten games into this year. He's nowhere near the hot seat.

 

The person I'd say should be concerned is the hitting coach. I'd seriously consider trying someone else if this continues for a few more weeks. It was terrible from May on last year and so far this year in spite having some good players.

What evidence is there that hitting coaches really matter much and actually have a proven impact pro or con on how well teams hit because i haven't seen it?

 

Impatient/dumb hitters tend to remain that way and patient/smarter hitters tend to remain this way because these habits, good or bad were developed long before these guys ever reached the majors.

[tmwiese55]

I'm not arguing if there is evidence to that, but there is evidence that changes like that happen after extended stretches like this. For me, assuming this keeps going on then I just don't see the harm in a fresh voice/eyes on things. I mean, it can't hurt. Besides that, I'd say that the fact that hitting coaches exist must mean they matter to some degree or at least management thinks it matters.

[xisxisxis]

Craig Counsell had over 5000 major league plate appearances which was probably 5000 more than his talent deserved. He said and did all the right things management liked. I am sure as a manager he is tapping into those same skills and will be with the Brewers for a long time no matter what barnum and bailey show appears in Brewers uniforms each night...

[Jenkins5]

[sarcasm]5-5 in first 10 games with spotty hitting outside of 9th inning, bad pitching out of most of rotation, and ugly defense.... it’s to late in season for these type of problems..... may be best to fire CC, sell off our assets, and put DS on the hot seat.[/sarcasm]

 

It’s April, we are more sloppy than I’d like but it is not a problem yet. If we are in May & June still looking this sloppy then maybe we have a real problem but really.... it’s not even 2 weeks in. I personally think CC is a very good manager & these issues will get cleaned up. Some of these mistakes are by guys who usually don’t makes these errors almost ever. Shaw with ball between legs, Yelich an error, Cain not looking as elite at all times as he normally is. Heck Hayward missed a ball on Saturday that he never misses! Brewers aren’t only team making sloppy dumb plays. I’m sure Cub fans are wondering when Madden gets put on hot seat for defensive mental errors.....

[danzig6767]

I'm not arguing if there is evidence to that, but there is evidence that changes like that happen after extended stretches like this. For me, assuming this keeps going on then I just don't see the harm in a fresh voice/eyes on things. I mean, it can't hurt. Besides that, I'd say that the fact that hitting coaches exist must mean they matter to some degree or at least management thinks it matters.

I just brought that up because over many years reading forums, fans often complain about hitting coaches when a team struggles to hit and sometimes a change does get made, yet i just don't recall it ever having much, if any impact.

 

Take guys like Arcia and Perez. I think it's safe to assume that hitting coaches for them in the minors and now in the majors have regularly told them that if they ever want to be really good big league hitters, they have to stop swinging at the junk off the plate, yet they never do and likely never will.

 

I'm not saying hitting coaches are irrelevant, but i haven't seem much to believe that they are all that impactful either.

[sveumrules]

Craig Counsell had over 5000 major league plate appearances which was probably 5000 more than his talent deserved. He said and did all the right things management liked. I am sure as a manager he is tapping into those same skills and will be with the Brewers for a long time no matter what barnum and bailey show appears in Brewers uniforms each night...

 

Counsell was drafted 319th in 1992. Of the 318 players drafted ahead of him only nine bested his career WAR total.

 

I think you are severely underselling his talent as a player.

[LouisEly]

Craig Counsell had over 5000 major league plate appearances which was probably 5000 more than his talent deserved. He said and did all the right things management liked. I am sure as a manager he is tapping into those same skills and will be with the Brewers for a long time no matter what barnum and bailey show appears in Brewers uniforms each night...

 

Counsell was drafted 319th in 1992. Of the 318 players drafted ahead of him only nine bested his career WAR total.

 

I think you are severely underselling his talent as a player.

[sarcasm]Worst draft class of all time.[/sarcasm]

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I love Counsell. He has a good relationship with Stearns, the players like him and he rarely does anything that could be described as Kapler-esque. That and he's one of ours. The guy loves Milwaukee and the Brewers. I'll bet he's here as long as he wants.

 

They've made some mistakes early on, but some have been physical errors and some were mental. I think he focuses on the right thing on the mental issues. Arcia forgets how many outs there are...next day he doesn't start. He doesn't make a scene, but message sent. I think he sat Villar once too...but it is hard to tell given the changing lineups. He's on it.

 

Count me in as #teamCraig

[liveforoctober]

Craig Counsell had over 5000 major league plate appearances which was probably 5000 more than his talent deserved. He said and did all the right things management liked. I am sure as a manager he is tapping into those same skills and will be with the Brewers for a long time no matter what barnum and bailey show appears in Brewers uniforms each night...

 

Rough night tonight?

[timpep]

To be honest I think Craig does pretty well with what he's given. I'm not a fan of the Sunday line ups but it is what it is. I think it's on Stearns to give him more to work with.

[Pugger]

I doubt he gets fired anytime soon but it would be nice to see these guys stop making the same sloppy, stupid mistakes over and over again. Bring in Prince as a coach and have him jack some of these guys up.

 

I don't know about Prince but seeing sloppy defense and undisciplined at bats is getting rather tiring.

[Pugger]

Counsell, for whatever reason, is Attanasio's and Stearns golden boy.

 

I see no scenario where he will be let go, in fact, I think he pretty much has a lifetime contract, even though not on paper, I think he will be the Brewers manager until he wants to leave.

 

Seriously.

 

If CC loses the locker room, the team starts to lose (and lose ugly) so folks stop coming to Miller Park Counsell's job would be in jeopardy.

[Pugger]

I'm more concerned about personnel decisions that Counsell and Stearns have made further down on the coaching staff.

 

Sedar continues to be back at 3rd every year despite pretty clearly being a bad 3rd base coach. Darnell Coles continues to field bottom half of the league offenses despite having reasonably good individual talent to work with.

 

Why they've found reason to replace other guys while these two remain immune is a mystery to me.

 

Its a mystery to me too.

[Pugger]

There is always sloppy play to begin the year in the major leagues. It isn't just a Brewers thing.

 

However, we are leading the majors in fielding errors and Boston had zero before last nights games.

[pacopete4]

There is always sloppy play to begin the year in the major leagues. It isn't just a Brewers thing.

 

However, we are leading the majors in fielding errors and Boston had zero before last nights games.

It's baseball. It will most likely even itself out.

[Pugger]

There is always sloppy play to begin the year in the major leagues. It isn't just a Brewers thing.

 

However, we are leading the majors in fielding errors and Boston had zero before last nights games.

It's baseball. It will most likely even itself out.

 

I hope you are right.

[Boomer5]

CC has this goofy roster with a terrible starting rotation and an injured all star caliber closer and OF at 6-5.

 

He will not be fired anytime soon.

[Thurston Fluff]

How about we just have the date the manger/GM is going to be fired built into every contract when we hire them? Then we can tell the fans what day they will be fired at the same press conference announcing his hiring. Maybe if we take the mystery out of it we can end the cycle of fire the manager discussions that pop up as soon as they are hired.

[dlk9s]

Counsell is fine.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Another thread that I wish would disappear. Counsell isn't going anywhere anytime soon.