How many Mental Mistakes before Counsell gets Fired?

[3and2Fastball]

Asking sincerely. I'm not calling for Counsell to be fired anytime soon. I don't even think the lack of hustle and poor fundamental Baseball is Counsell's fault, but at some point he'll get the blame.

 

So, seriously, how long does this last before Steans cleans house? All of 2018? Two more seasons of idiotic mistakes and poor defense and less than ideal at-bats?

[wallus]

The offending players will be gone before Counsell.

[pacopete4]

From the sounds of it, Counsell and Stearns have a really good working relationship so this may be jumping the gun a bit.

[superfly]

From the sounds of it, Counsell and Stearns have a really good working relationship so this may be jumping the gun a bit.

 

I've had just about enough of the pathetic defense and poor plate discipline. If Counsell and Stearns are too close and things don't see a pretty big improvement this season perhaps it's time to question the future of both of them. What exactly have these players been doing all offseason? They are every bit as bad or even worse than last season. Most of them have been in the big leagues long enough for me to deem them "veterans" too. There should at least be SOMEWHAT of an upward trajectory for their play. If anything the trajectory is going down on nearly all of them.

[3and2Fastball]

From the sounds of it, Counsell and Stearns have a really good working relationship so this may be jumping the gun a bit.

 

I think that is why it'll be later rather than sooner... Eventually though, patience for this pathetic brand of Baseball will run out, no matter how well liked Counsell is or how well he & Stearns work together.

[torts]

Counsell isnt going anywhere

[pacopete4]

The team won 86 games in a "rebuilding" year last season. We are 10 games into this season. The play has been sloppy but I wouldn't say it is a trend of this team under Counsell so far. I think both men, Counsell and Stearns, have a shared vision of where they want to see this team head to. The problem with winning last season is now there is less patience from the fan base. That's where this could get ugly. Hopefully, MA, Stearns, and Counsell can be patient enough to weather that storm and continue moving this franchise forward.

[brewmann04]

CC is here for the long haul

[Bombers]

CC is here for the long haul

 

Counsell isnt going anywhere

 

Dynamite drop in Monty, that broadcast school is really starting to pay off.

 

J/K fella’s, that’s just the first thing that came to mind when I read that. Anyhow, I get what you are saying and Counsell is semi an untouchable with the whole growing up a Brewer fan. I just hope Stearns and Antanasio expect real results. The defensive miscues along with the high K rate and inability to hit with runners in scoring position is maddening.

 

I just wish for once the Brewers could get a real manager and not these replacement level managers

[Boomer5]

The team grossly over achieved last year and teams that do that tend to not repeat.

 

No one into analytics is expecting the Brewers to be a playoff team.

 

Therefore. CC is staying put.

[jerichoholicninja]

I doubt he gets fired anytime soon but it would be nice to see these guys stop making the same sloppy, stupid mistakes over and over again. Bring in Prince as a coach and have him jack some of these guys up.

[bork]

How much of it is the roster? You can see hints of Stearn's vision, but half of the 25 man and half of the 40 man are Melvin players.

[B-Train]

If the mental mistakes result in 2 consecutive 90+ loss seasons, attendance declines, and rumblings in the clubhouse cause distractions, then 2020. So, highly unlikely. I see the Crew staying in the hunt and breaking through to reach playoffs 2 of the next 3 seasons.

[Oxy]

This is an enlightening thread.

[B-Train]

This is an enlightening thread.

Well, You know what they say about "enlightening" questions....

[Tbadder]

I do think, especially early on, a manager should hold aplayer’s feet to the fire regarding sloppy play, poor decisions, bad errors. A benching is a clear option that CC might employ, but to be fair, Counsell is responsible for getting his players to concentrate appropriately.

 

On the other hand is this an indication that the pressure is already on? If so, it seems premature considering the new veteran presence on the team. Clearly the Cubs are a better team and it makes me wonder if, at least in this important series, the miscues were down to trying too hard? I doubt it myself, but it’s a thought.

[Bombers]

The team grossly over achieved last year and teams that do that tend to not repeat.

 

No one into analytics is expecting the Brewers to be a playoff team.

 

Therefore. CC is staying put.

That’s fair. They did over achieve. I think many just wish the simple mistakes would reduce but they haven’t. And errors and bad defense is contagious.

[trwi7]

How much of it is the roster? You can see hints of Stearn's vision, but half of the 25 man and half of the 40 man are Melvin players.

 

Cain, Shaw, Villar, Sogard, Thames, Aguilar, Pina, Bandy, Anderson, Albers, Chacin, Drake, Hoover, Jeffress, Jennings are all Stearns.

 

60% of the 25 man roster is his. He had the opportunity to trade Braun but failed to. Three of the players currently on the 25 man roster were part of a lopsided trade that Stearns was in the wrong side of (Santana, Hader, Houser).

 

One of the better pitchers on the roster (Davies) was acquired by Melvin.

 

Two other relievers, Barnes and Williams were drafted while Melvin was still GM and both have quite a bit of talent.

 

Suter was drafted under Melvin and is probably a decent swing man but is currently a starter because Stearns failed to get another one.

 

Perez was under Melvin but Stearns could have DFA'd him at any time and didn't.

 

Stearns has had plenty of time to make the roster his own. Giving him the excuse of still having "Melvin players", a few of whom are some of our better players is ridiculous.

[pacopete4]

The team grossly over achieved last year and teams that do that tend to not repeat.

 

No one into analytics is expecting the Brewers to be a playoff team.

 

Therefore. CC is staying put.

That’s fair. They did over achieve. I think many just wish the simple mistakes would reduce but they haven’t. And errors and bad defense is contagious.

 

At first glance I thought Boomer5 was having a conversation with himself. Lol

 

My question is, are errors made on the field a managers fault? To me that speaks to the players way more. Mental errors could be a managers thing but how does one blame physical errors on a manager?

[Boomer5]

The team grossly over achieved last year and teams that do that tend to not repeat.

 

No one into analytics is expecting the Brewers to be a playoff team.

 

Therefore. CC is staying put.

That’s fair. They did over achieve. I think many just wish the simple mistakes would reduce but they haven’t. And errors and bad defense is contagious.

 

At first glance I thought Boomer5 was having a conversation with himself. Lol

 

My question is, are errors made on the field a managers fault? To me that speaks to the players way more. Mental errors could be a managers thing but how does one blame physical errors on a manager?

 

 

I’ve been known to do that.

[Boomer5]

How much of it is the roster? You can see hints of Stearn's vision, but half of the 25 man and half of the 40 man are Melvin players.

 

Stearns guys are for the most part the problem.

[TJseven7]

Mental errors come from dumb players under a players manager. Grinding on dudes doesn't work for 48 games in the nfl let alone a long 162 game season in the mlb these days. You can't have mental mistakes but the vast majority are...

 

Santana Thames Aguilar Villar Perez who arent good defenders and aren't bright players. They are also patchwork rebuild adds and value grabs. Those aren't ideal pieces.

Arcia still "young" dumb.

 

Professionals respond to players coaches... a player leader should be stepping up to rattle cages. CC is there to keep the mentality and clubhouse vibe right.

 

On top of that we don't know whats been said but I'd doubt no one is saying something after a 2-5 stretch vs the cubs and cards. Everyone talks about how great the culture is in this clubhouse. That's in part CC. The errors are frustrating as heck but screaming at players daily won't fix the issue. You can only throw bats in the shower a time or two before it loses shock. They like each other.. their accountability to each other shouldn't be something they dont get.

 

The teams still bad defensively because 3 spots are manned by bad defenders that make dumb plays. A 4th is still young. They are grown dudes... you cant coach that out of them at this point. Arcia needs to grow past it. 1b is what it is. Sabtanas not in the plan nor is villar if he doesn't grow up.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

Counsell is mostly fine to me, he's not the best but he doesn't do anything crazy that hurts the team but he always seemed like "the guy before the guy" to me. Once we really hit our competitive window I see him going for someone who's had a little more experience, John Farrell maybe?

 

The front office is smart and isn't going to do anything irrational but if the season plays out like many think, high 70s/low 80s wins, the general fanbase may think it was a disappointment seeing as many probably had their expectations set too high after last year and probably place a good amount of blame on Counsell for it (not that it is or will be his fault).

[TJseven7]

Well we are 5-5 and have sucked quite badly so I'm not really worried about the season as a whole. We've had 3 good starts total. 2 blown saves in 2 of the 3. Tons of errors. Yelich Knebel missing time. No ones overperforming at the plate but our hurt star and Villar. We don't have a single starter matching last years numbers.

 

There's a long way up to go. It's a crud start. Some savior moments, some abortions but nothing but walk off wins and the pen minus 2 blips is going right.

[jerichoholicninja]

The record is not the issue. Based on record they've probably overachieved this year. The issue is that they're doing the same stupid things as last year.