Lineup Tinkering/Platoons

[RollieTime]

I find it frustrating that Counsell does so much tinkering with the lineup and platoons with so many different positions. Players will always feel more comfortable receiving consistent at bats, they will see the ball better, and have better results. It would be difficult for any player to sit on the bench for a couple days and then start a game and be expected to do much at the plate. I know they are MLB hitters, but it throws a player off to not see any pitches for a few days and then be thrown in for one game. It’s a bad spot to be in and very few players are successful at doing it (outside of Aguilar).

 

I would like to see more consistency this season with the lineup and letting the players get comfortable knowing that they will be starting at a certain position everyday and not be concerned about not performing and being benched the next two games. It is a revolving door at first, second, and right field. It’s hard to expect players to just come in and be productive.

 

The sitting of Braun twice already confuses me, especially because of the off day after the game he sat for. Sitting Santana doesn’t make much sense with how much he helped the offense last season. He should be playing in right almost every day.

 

Also, Yelich has NEVER played in right field in the MLB outside of this season. He played in right field only once in the minors and that was in 2013. Getting a gold glover and playing him where he has never played makes absolutely no sense.

 

Braun should be moved to first almost permanently. Braun should start most games at first. Yelich, Cain, and Santana should be starting nearly every day. Arcia should almost never need days off either. Pina should receive days off similar to how Lucroy was managed. The use of him has been questionable as well.

 

My main point is that Counsell needs to make a consistent lineup, stop doing a bunch of platoons, and let players get comfortable knowing their roles and what’s expected of them. Players will not perform sitting on the bench for a while and then being thrown in for one game, knowing that if they do not perform well in their handful of at-bats, they will be benched again. Players will perform better having a consistent role and knowing that they can come back the next day after going 0-3 and be in the lineup instead of being removed from the lineup just as quickly as they were inserted.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The problem is that the team's front office has left Counsell with a 25-man roster that doesn't make a lot of sense, so he's trying to juggle and get guys in. There are too many everyday player-types, and not enough bench guys. That's what happens when you acquire two All-Star caliber everyday OFers, and do nothing to alleviate the existing above-average OF depth you already had. Hopefully things will get figured out eventually, but right now this roster screams the idea of a plan that was only half executed.

[B-Train]

Yes, I agree with much of what you stated above. It would be nice to have an everyday 2nd baseman (who is consistent). It would have been nice to acquired a TOR pitcher for a player or players on the ML roster that make it a win-win trade for both teams. 1st base would have worked itself out most likely with a trade for a pitcher.

 

On the other hand CC has to look at keeping guys fresh - Cain and Braun could use off days - and we have 2 ordinary 1st basemen and 2 ordinary 2nd basemen. So those are areas that, until someone takes the bull by the horns, we will see a platoon in place.

 

Further, there are guys who are making mental mistakes left and right in the field and base paths. Does CC just keep plugging them in or do they need some not so subtle reminders that PT is earned?

[RollieTime]

I am not as high on Thames as others are, but his offensive production is similar to Broxton’s. Both are poor offensively outside of a couple hot stretches during the season where they can carry the team for a short time. Both provided solid defense. They are nearly a wash in my opinion.

 

If Thames was removed from the equation entirely, the roster issues would be alleviated almost immediately. Braun starts at first and is backed up by Aguilar, who in my opinion is a much more consistent hitter compared to Thames. The outfield would be Yelich, Cain, and Santana, with Braun and Perez filling in if needed. First base would be Braun and Aguilar, with Perez filling in if needed.

 

I think that they could find a taker for Thames and I would be all for it. I agree that the roster has issues currently with the structure, but moving on from Thames would fix most, if not the entire roster issue.

[FVBrewerFan]

Other than maybe Sogard playing a game or two more than I would want, I think CC has handled lineups very well. Like it or not, everyone is going to play, that's CC philosophy. You can't expect someone to step up and hit in August when he's only had 30 ABs all year. As long as it's not at the expense of keeping Cain and Yelich out of the line-up, which he hasn't done.

[tmwiese55]

Get what you're saying but that's clearly not his or management's philosophy so we might as well get used to it. They clearly believe in the L/R splits and using them as much as possible along with routine rest for regulars and consistent PT for the bench so that everyone stays sharp and involved. I mean, they did it with blah backups like Perez, Franklin, etc in the past so now that they have good depth of course they're gonna keep doing it. Sure seemed the chemistry/karma stuff was great last year and so far this year, I'm sure that's part of it. I understand it, especially for an NL team, the current state of starting pitching (league wide) of not going deep in games, the new 10 day DLs where people pop on more often. So you're going to need guys to be flexible and able to play multiple spots. In a way you could argue they might be ahead of the curve on this a bit.

[SeaBass]

Other than maybe Sogard playing a game or two more than I would want, I think CC has handled lineups very well. Like it or not, everyone is going to play, that's CC philosophy. You can't expect someone to step up and hit in August when he's only had 30 ABs all year. As long as it's not at the expense of keeping Cain and Yelich out of the line-up, which he hasn't done.

 

This. Sogard should not be getting 2 starts a week over Arcia, I'd rather they try to fit him in more at 2B to get him at bats if that's the goal. Ultimately he's Eric Sogard so his bat really isn't bringing much to the table whether he has it working or not, benching the best defender on the infield to try to get Sogard's pop gun bat in the lineup doesn't seem like it should be the preferred way, lefty/righty splits be damned.

[pacopete4]

Like others have said, other than Sogard starting at SS twice already, Counsell has done a nice job with the lineups IMO. We have a deep team at some positions so you're going to see different lineups. That's perfectly fine with me. We've seen stats that show how many players it takes to get through a season (50 last year) and we have seen the success of a team like Houston who puts out different lineups and players and still rolls teams so I don't think this is much of an issue.

[jerichoholicninja]

That's how most teams are run these days. A platoon is generally more effective and cheaper.

[adambr2]

There was never going to be a consistent lineup this year with the roster construction and we all knew that. Thames at 1st against RHP is not a problem at all and he does not deserve to be the odd man out nor should Braun be starting at 1st everyday against RHP. Yes Thames is streaky but he put up a .918 OPS against RHP and you cannot ask for more than that. He's looked much better than Braun at the plate to start the season, frankly. There's absolutely no reason he shouldn't always start at 1st against righties any less than Braun should always start at 1st against lefties, at least right now.

 

People want to try to continue to find a way to force Braun into the lineup 90% of the time which is puzzling to me because it will not end well as he will not hold up at that rate over the span of 162 games particularly playing multiple positions.

 

He has started 75% of the games played and if that rate holds up for the season he would have 122 starts by season's end. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that number especially if if means 122 healthy starts.

 

If people want to argue that the current roster construction is inefficient I can understand that but there is nothing wrong with the way Counsell has managed the individual playing time.

[adambr2]

I am not as high on Thames as others are, but his offensive production is similar to Broxton’s. Both are poor offensively outside of a couple hot stretches during the season where they can carry the team for a short time. Both provided solid defense. They are nearly a wash in my opinion.

 

If Thames was removed from the equation entirely, the roster issues would be alleviated almost immediately. Braun starts at first and is backed up by Aguilar, who in my opinion is a much more consistent hitter compared to Thames. The outfield would be Yelich, Cain, and Santana, with Braun and Perez filling in if needed. First base would be Braun and Aguilar, with Perez filling in if needed.

 

I think that they could find a taker for Thames and I would be all for it. I agree that the roster has issues currently with the structure, but moving on from Thames would fix most, if not the entire roster issue.

 

Thames is not at all comparable to Broxton. Thames does strike out too much, but not nearly as much as Keon. The big difference is that Thames is much better at getting on base which is why he's been leadoff several times. Thames reaches base about 38% of the time vs. RHP, which is why he is platooned. Thames is fine as a platoon player. I would put my money on Thames having better numbers against RHP than Braun this year, especially if you're going to try to milk 140 games out of Braun

 

I don't understand the aversion to platoons. It's about using your personnel as efficiently as possible. The days of 155-160 start players are pretty much over with few exceptions.

[rickh150]

Trading a Thames for relief pitching would be ideal.... allowing Braun and Aguilar to play more and strengthening our depth at pitching.

[adambr2]

Trading a Thames for relief pitching would be ideal.... allowing Braun and Aguilar to play more and strengthening our depth at pitching.

 

Again, Braun's playing time is not an issue. Braun is on pace to start 122 games.

 

You're trading the RHP strong part of your 1B platoon and replacing it with two bats that both excel against LHP and make no sense as platoon mates at 1st. For another piece to add to the deepest part of our roster and system, the pen. This does not make us better.

 

Nor is there a needle moving reliever out there available for Thames. All signs from what occurred in free agency and who is available for 1B indicate a very weak 1B trade market. Thames has more value to us as a 1B platoon bat than he does in a trade or it would have been done in the off-season.

[3and2Fastball]

Thames has been much better than Braun so far this season. It is a small sample of course and hopefully he can turn it around, but Braun has shown no reason for sitting Thames, especially vs RHP.

[Tbadder]

I’d guess that a straight up platoon of Thames and Aggy would out OPS a full time Braun even if he was healthy all 162 games. Close, but given their ages I have more confidence in the platoon than a declining Braun.

[DHonks]

Personally I don't get the complaining. I like having depth. I don't believe in starters playing 162 games. I want my starters playing 130-140 games. I like tinkering with the lineup and I like adjusting the lineup for opponent pitcher type or handedness.

[Never Outhustled]

Trading a Thames for relief pitching would be ideal.... allowing Braun and Aguilar to play more and strengthening our depth at pitching.

 

The team is 19th in runs scored, just like they were last year. We probably have between 8-12 MLB quality relievers in the organization.

 

The last thing we should be looking at is trading a quality hitter for relief help.

[kfizz]

I would not be looking to move any bats. The Brewers already don’t have enough of them. Thames has his flaws, but he’s still a bat. I’d be all for freeing up a spot for Choi by moving on from one of the utility infielders (Sogard, Perez) though. Choi might hit.