Why is Ryan Braun so hated?

[tmwiese55]

Right, what more can be done? Peeing mid game, drawing blood mid game, people following these guys around all offseason. Daily tests, etc. That all just seems so much and kind of a privacy or invasion (can't think of right wording) of personal space all for something that really isn't that big of a problem anymore. You've put in the strictest testing in sports history already, keep adjusting as technology changes but this all seems to be a miniscule problem now and more about "gotcha" moments than anything else at this point.

[KeithStone53151]

Right, what more can be done? Peeing mid game, drawing blood mid game, people following these guys around all offseason. Daily tests, etc. That all just seems so much and kind of a privacy or invasion (can't think of right wording) of personal space all for something that really isn't that big of a problem anymore. You've put in the stricted testing in sports history already, keep adjusting as technology changes but this all seems to be a miniscule problem now and more about "gotcha" moments than anything else at this point.

 

I tend to agree with this as well. You don't even mention what the potentially astronomical costs associated the tracking it would take to ensure a clean game.

[Brian the Automator]

Is this a trick question?

[trwi7]

Is this a trick question?

 

Is this a trick username?

[Ennder]

I'm not a fan of Braun because what he tried to do to the trainer who took his sample. He tried to vilify him, even though he knew he did nothing wrong. That to me was ultimate bush league.

 

The guy who handled the sample broke protocol and the sample should have never been tested. It should have been thrown out the day it reached the testing facilities. To make matters worse the failed test was leaked to the public. Braun was wrong in using the product but everyone involved in this process was wrong as well. This process failed at every single step. Don't sit here and pretend Braun is at fault for other people failing to do their jobs properly.

[KeithStone53151]

I'm not a fan of Braun because what he tried to do to the trainer who took his sample. He tried to vilify him, even though he knew he did nothing wrong. That to me was ultimate bush league.

 

The guy who handled the sample broke protocol and the sample should have never been tested. It should have been thrown out the day it reached the testing facilities. To make matters worse the failed test was leaked to the public. Braun was wrong in using the product but everyone involved in this process was wrong as well. This process failed at every single step. Don't sit here and pretend Braun is at fault for other people failing to do their jobs properly.

 

This guy sounds like the Cubs fans that boo Braun...but don't really know why they are booing anymore. And then cheer for a medium deep fly ball like it's a 450 foot homerun.

[Thurston Fluff]

Did you guys read the article closely enough? Bosch wasn't the guy getting caught. The players were getting caught because guys like Braun were eating an entire thing of testosterone gummy bears like it was a bag of Doritos after smoking the devil's lettuce. That is the only reason Braun got caught, because he didn't follow to protocol of taking his stuff. He went years (like since his college days) doing testosterone in some greater form that couldn't get detected and had his gummies to activate it.

 

Pretty interesting article none the less.

 

Yes I did read the article closely but I wasn't basing my point off the article. For Bosch to talk about how easy it is to beat MLB testing while simultaneously ignoring he got caught by MLB's overall anti-PED approach is missing the big picture on his part. Baseball, both players and owners, deserve some credit for taking the extra step of adding an investigative approach above and beyond pee testing the players. They could very easily have just gone the NFL route and did cosmetic testing without really trying to rid the sport of PEDs. They didn't and a lot of players, not to mention a major PED pusher, got caught because of it.

[tmwiese55]

Well said Thurston. The NFL is a joke of a policy and no one cares. Look at these guys and only like 5 people get caught a year it seems. They're willingly turning a blind eye to it all just like MLB used to do.

[JosephC]

I'm not a fan of Braun because what he tried to do to the trainer who took his sample. He tried to vilify him, even though he knew he did nothing wrong. That to me was ultimate bush league.

 

The guy who handled the sample broke protocol and the sample should have never been tested. It should have been thrown out the day it reached the testing facilities. To make matters worse the failed test was leaked to the public. Braun was wrong in using the product but everyone involved in this process was wrong as well. This process failed at every single step. Don't sit here and pretend Braun is at fault for other people failing to do their jobs properly.

 

The sample collector did follow the protocol of the company he worked for. The lab analyzed the sample because the collection and handling of the sample followed industry accepted practices. The protocol "mistake" was due to MLB not confirming the wording in their written protocol versus the collection agency's protocol, which was MLB's responsibility. MLB admitted fault in regards to this issue.

 

Also, the leak did not come from Major League Baseball. One of Braun's team of "experts/lawyers" was asking various people in the industry about the process and possible errors/loopholes, and one of the people that had been consulted was the one who spilled the beans.

 

All of this was well documented when it happened and it's astonishing that so many Brewer fans either never heard about it or just chose to ignore it. Dino Laurenzi was 100% innocent in this. The company he worked for was 100% innocent in this. The lab that tested the sample was 100% innocent in this. MLB was guilty in regards to the protocol deviation. A "consultant" contacted by Braun's "team" was responsible for the leak to the press.

[brooks_quichenick]

That SI article with Bosch's quotes about Braun is hilarious. Had he followed the proper procedures with those gummies he would've likely never gotten caught and might still be putting up MVP-type seasons, but his ego and stupidity got in the way lol.

[tmwiese55]

If I remember correctly he left the sample in his basement unrefrigerated for the weekend and then in the trunk of his car for a day on a hot day. That can't be standard accepted protocol.

[MrTPlush]

If I remember correctly he left the sample in his basement unrefrigerated for the weekend and then in the trunk of his car far day on a hot day. That can't be standard accepted protocol.

 

What? Pretty sure it was in his refrigerator and I have never heard the trunk of his car story.

[tmwiese55]

Again, I'm not gonna say 100% since it's been years so if someone wants to do the digging feel free. But that's what I remember back at the time, the car was on Monday when he went to his normal job and then dropped it off at lunch or in the afternoon wherever he had to drop it off.

 

ETA: am just sitting around so I googled. In the guys statement he said he kept in a rubbermaid container and put in his basement office, which he said since it was his basement it was cool enough. No refrigeration. His statement doesn't specify what time he dropped it off Monday. I'll edit if I see it

 

2nd Edit: Didn't drop off until 1:30 PM on Monday. Don't see an explanation on what he did prior to that on that day. My memory says he had a normal job and it sat in the trunk on a hot-ish day. I clicked on 4-5 articles and don't think I'm gonna look anymore.

 

Also to note when reading this that I didn't recall, he collected at 5pm and didn't drop them off at Fedex even though Fedex was open until 9. That was mistake #1 to start the whole thing.

[pacopete4]

You don’t get fired if you did nothing wrong lol.

[sveumrules]

You don’t get fired if you did nothing wrong lol.

 

MLB fired the arbitrator (Shyam Das) that cast the deciding vote to overturn Braun's suspension.

 

I couldn't find anything about CDT firing Dino Laurenzi.

[MrTPlush]

After Braun’s camp released the name of the sample collector MLB temporarily relieved him of his duties. I don’t know what that entailed and I don’t know if he ever started collecting samples. That isn’t the point though. The collector DID DO HIS JOB. He did what his company instructed him to do. The problem was because of communication errors between MLB and CDT. Maybe not even that. Just wording that a smart lawyer twisted to get the sample thrown out (one other player also got a suspension throw for the same reason the same time as Braun).

 

Yes, there were Fed Ex locations open at the time...that wasn’t the problem. The problem was none of them would ship it out that day and that is what protocol says. So the handler decided the sample was safer in his hands until it could get shipped vs. sitting with a bunch of people at Fed Ex. If you trust this guy to collect it, it makes sense for him to hold onto it if it can’t get shipped.

 

Who cares though. Braun was an idiot and had 20x the normal dose of gummy bears and got the highest test ever. The article is enlightening because it answers a lot of questions. It pretty much says Braun has cheated far longer than the 2011 he claimed, now we know why he had such a high test, and how some of these guys get it into their system.

 

Now if I see a guy in the dugout popping candy....

[tmwiese55]

That couldn't not have been proper handling protocol. But yes, big pic he was guilty anyway so it doesn't matter. Braun did what he did. But the notion often stated that the handler did nothing wrong that's often pushed just doesn't seem right. Turns out his mixups gave Braun an out that he didn't truly deserve.

 

Another thing I think I remember is that Braun's team recreated this handling and it altered the test results. Maybe that was BS pushed by Brewer fans, but my memory was pretty good on this other aspect, so idk.

 

ETA: the recreation might have been done by an Olympic person who won an appeal and they used that as evidence. At least one of these two things happened, possibly both.

[Ennder]

 

The sample collector did follow the protocol of the company he worked for. The lab analyzed the sample because the collection and handling of the sample followed industry accepted practices. The protocol "mistake" was due to MLB not confirming the wording in their written protocol versus the collection agency's protocol, which was MLB's responsibility. MLB admitted fault in regards to this issue.

 

Also, the leak did not come from Major League Baseball. One of Braun's team of "experts/lawyers" was asking various people in the industry about the process and possible errors/loopholes, and one of the people that had been consulted was the one who spilled the beans.

 

All of this was well documented when it happened and it's astonishing that so many Brewer fans either never heard about it or just chose to ignore it. Dino Laurenzi was 100% innocent in this. The company he worked for was 100% innocent in this. The lab that tested the sample was 100% innocent in this. MLB was guilty in regards to the protocol deviation. A "consultant" contacted by Braun's "team" was responsible for the leak to the press.

 

He did not send it out the day he should have, he did not store it properly, he waited longer than he should have to ship it on Monday. This guy blew it at every chance. That is why the arbitration was won.

[MrTPlush]

If you are going to call my statements false at least provide some kind of rebuttal.

 

All my facts came from legit articles on the topic. Most of them well after the situation so they weren’t full of garbage rumors and false statements.

 

I haven’t read the entire CBA or the CDTs entire policy on collecting. It’s been widely concluded the collector did his job correctly according to CDT terms, but questions arose when it came to the actual CBA policies. Nothing the collector did would have made the sample not legitimate to the standards for testing (the scientist and smart people). That is what was widely reported. The problem was what the CBA required or stated.

 

That is why it was called a technicality by many. Nothing tampered the sample, but had to be thrown out due to CBA requirements and wording.

[tmwiese55]

I see what you're saying. If it's true IDK, someone else can read deeper. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're essentially saying this horrible handling fell within what his company protocol told him to do, even if that protocol was terrible and not compliant with CBA it was within the parameters of his instructions. I've thought not on this, but I don't know either way for sure but just common sense wise I can't believe that would be acceptable handling for a company to make it far enough to be handling for MLB but dumber stuff has certainly happened

[MrTPlush]

It’s a messy situation to figure out because #1 we don’t get all the details and #2 there was so much false garbage thrown around it was hard to sift through. Even now it is hard to figure out thefaction vs. the false junk.

 

I remember at the start the huge deal was the collector claimed no place was open at 5pm and in reality that was never the argument. The statement from the collector was no place would ship it on Friday(?) and it wouldn’t get shipped out till Monday. At which point he held onto it until the day it could get shipped.

 

MLB changed the CBA afterwards to make sure if a similar situation ever happened again it couldn’t get thrown out. From what I read Das got fired because he wouldn’t wait to give his written decision until after they toyed with the CBA to make it where Braun would get tagged with the suspension. Now how can they even do that? I don’t know, you’d think Braun would get judged on the CBA when it happened, not months later.

 

MLB beat themselves with how they wrote the CBA and something was in there that caused a decision they didn’t want. MLB didn’t care about how the collector handled it, but the CBA they made did. Big fail.

[3and2Fastball]

If you read up on the atmosphere at the U of Miami and all the steroids at that school during the time Braun was there, you'd have to be extremely gullible to think he wasn't juicing as a Brewer.

 

It depends on whether (or not) you believe that most MLB players are on something, in part, as to whether or not you find fault with Braun. The whole drama over "I was innocent" etc and fighting the case, and getting off, and being caught again and suspended etc are why he is hated. That seems pretty obvious to me.

 

Personally, I like Braun. I think a huge portion of players in MLB are on something. They just didn't attend a college that got investigated and/or use less, and/or are on undetectable HGH and/or are not targeted by MLB. There are even rumors that some star players have a doctor's prescription for HGH to treat a pre-existing condition. I don't know about all that.

[Ennder]

Let me just add I do not believe Braun was innocent. This is completely an argument about whether the system failed along the way to deciding he was guilty in the initial finding. I think the system was a complete failure at multiple points with the initial findings.

[JosephC]

I see what you're saying. If it's true IDK, someone else can read deeper. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're essentially saying this horrible handling fell within what his company protocol told him to do, even if that protocol was terrible and not compliant with CBA it was within the parameters of his instructions. I've thought not on this, but I don't know either way for sure but just common sense wise I can't believe that would be acceptable handling for a company to make it far enough to be handling for MLB but dumber stuff has certainly happened

 

Laurenzi held the sample because it was too close to the FedEx deadline for overnight shipping. Let's say that it's your sample that has been collected. Would you rather have the sample held by the sample collector who can put it in his basement where only he and his wife has access, and that person is documented as having responsibility for the integrity of the sample? Or would you rather the sample be left at a FedEx office for 24 hours, where any number of random employees could access the sample or it could wind up in the back of a hot truck/storeroom over that timeframe?

[tmwiese55]

I see what you're saying. If it's true IDK, someone else can read deeper. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're essentially saying this horrible handling fell within what his company protocol told him to do, even if that protocol was terrible and not compliant with CBA it was within the parameters of his instructions. I've thought not on this, but I don't know either way for sure but just common sense wise I can't believe that would be acceptable handling for a company to make it far enough to be handling for MLB but dumber stuff has certainly happened

 

Laurenzi held the sample because it was too close to the FedEx deadline for overnight shipping. Let's say that it's your sample that has been collected. Would you rather have the sample held by the sample collector who can put it in his basement where only he and his wife has access, and that person is documented as having responsibility for the integrity of the sample? Or would you rather the sample be left at a FedEx office for 24 hours, where any number of random employees could access the sample or it could wind up in the back of a hot truck/storeroom over that timeframe?

 

If the guy is taking it home he should have to refrigerate it and then take it in immediately when able. Not leave it in a car trunk until the afternoon on a hot day. If it's take to Fedex and get sent out first thing next morning or have him hold it for 2.5 days unrefrigerated and then outdoors in the heat, I probably go Fedex. If Fedex is trusted with chain of custody for the duration of normal shipping why wouldn't they be trusted to hold it from 6pm to 6am the next morning? If not, then MLB should hire all their own people to handle all of this.

 

But as Plush was saying, maybe all these things he did were within his company instructions then he personally did nothing wrong (which is what we're discussing here), I just can't imagine this type of holding was the recommended way of doing it.

 

Again, we all know Braun did it, No one is claiming innocence.