Why is Ryan Braun so hated?

[tmwiese55]

But here we are judging people from our computer, that's really the whole thing I'm against with me taking this side of the discussion. These people are still just human beings, crap happens. To expect them to be perfect is just not possible. Bad decisions are made, you start down a path you shouldn't. It happens. Hopefully he learned and is a better person because of it. I wish everyone had a bit more empathy instead of the current gotcha attitude so prevalent in the media these days trying to bring people down.

 

Yes athletes are human, yes they make mistakes. What most of them don't do is take PEDs then lie about it. This whole "nobody's perfect" mantra just falls on deaf ears.

 

Oh, and for the record, I don't accept the premise most everyone in business lies, all executives cheat on their wives, etc. And if I do run across people like that, no, I don't like or respect them either. So no different than Braun.

 

Every person caught taking PEDs lied about it just like Braun did. I didn't say all of them took, and I didn't say everyone lies in business and wives. Just that it's common, and those were just some quick common examples, and you can come up with many many more easily. I'm pointing out the difference is we know about it because he's a celebrity. For average joes if they've never done anything to you then you're none the wiser and think they're good people. I'd be surprised if at least one person in all of our common contacts hasn't or doesn't frequently cheat on their spouse. Isn't there some stats out there that say it's like 60%-ish.

 

I'm with you in the general attitude of not liking or respecting attitude if it's a clear habitual thing (talking beyond spouse cheating, whatever shady thing it is) they're doing that is shady rather than a screw up and then otherwise being normal. Again, you just don't know about a lot of it though since they're not famous. Generally try to be empathetic to how life can often go for people and try to be empathetic as much as possible. Spitballing here I'd say I kind of operate on a two strike type of rule, like everyone gets a second chance type of thing.

 

So my main premise of all of that long post was that if this is the worst he's done, then he's pretty low on the list of 'bad guys' in baseball imo compared to what others do. So kind of trying to put in perspective relative to the real world and the examples I gave, then throw in domestic violence, hard drugs, DUIs, any violence, gun stuff, being terrible fathers, hitting their kids, etc. Yet he gets more vitriol because of his level of celebrity over a guy like KRod. OF course he could do those other things too, we have no idea, and that's my point. We don't so maybe we just chill on the judging and acting better than everyone else.

 

Also, I thought JimH5's post was well said and kind of the way I see it from the 'hating' side of Braun. I totally get it and that's kind of how I'd phrase rather than being so damning.

[tmwiese55]

I'm not sure how he thought that would repair damage. I'm pretty sure I read that the press conference was one of his biggest personal regrets.

 

There was no reason to do it. None. Release a one-sentence statement about being happy to move on. The rest was Braun overkill. It was an ego nuclear missile to win a war he'd already won.

 

There was, he thought it was done and he'd won. So being that boisterous he was actually trying to convince people he actually never did it (rather than thinking just a technicality) so that his image would be clean and he could still make the Hall, All star games, etc. That was the reason, hindsight he was wrong, but there was a reason to do it. He should have remembered that the leak is what got him there to begin with and realized it could happen again since he wasn't innocent, that was the mistake. He doubled down and lost. It really is a good question though of how much vitriol he'd have this many years later if he just gave a canned humble statement after being cleared, we'll never know.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I simply don't agree. When Braun won his appeal, a lot of people had the wool over their eyes. Every discussion about it, even the ones here, seemed to be close to 50/50 with a lot of people believing his nonsense about the collector, there was no proof, the sample was invalid, etc.

 

Most intelligent people thought it was a technicality. But the point is that he was better off being gracious and just letting it go. He won - game over. Let the thing die a slow death.

 

But he couldn't do that. His ego wasn't capable of it. And I don't doubt that his stern denial played a role in MLB wanting to make sure they got him. He embarrassed the drug testing protocol.

 

He had everything to lose with that speech because he knew he was lying, and essentially nothing to gain because his critics still didn't believe him.

[tmwiese55]

That's fair and reasonable. I'm just saying that was the reason, doesn't mean he wasn't wrong in that reason. But that was the goal of the conference and saying all that. I suppose you could call it ego, I don't know, there's probably a better word. But I think it was a strategic call by his PR team and for all we know he was never fully transparent with the PR team. Who knows how many people around him were 'in the know' on it so couldn't give the best advice. I agree, knowing everything he should have just bit his tongue but he just never guessed the witch hunt would happen. I see why they did it.

[danzig6767]

So, he made the same lie every player made that gets caught.

No he really didn't

 

Most who get busted, they put out a generic statement/lie saying that they must have unknowingly taken something which triggered a positive test, but they apologize for not being more careful and accept any punishment coming their way.

 

By doing this, they smartly avoid what Braun stepped into by him holding a press conference where he defiantly claimed total innocence and also implied that the guy who handled his urine may have framed him.

 

There is a difference between those ways of handling a positive PED test and it's why Braun received so much more backlash compared to others who got busted.

 

Braun let his pride and ego get in the way of handling the situation smarter, and thus has paid a bigger price for getting busted than other players have.

[tmwiese55]

That's fair, I see the difference you're saying. It could have probably been phrased better. Maybe something like 'every player accused' rather than the way I did which includes those after the suspension is handed down when they don't have any choice but to give the apology. Or something like they "lie until caught red handed", some phrasing like that. Process usually goes that they're accused (if it's public) and then deny up until the suspension is handed down and it's over so they give the canned apology/excuse. And every big name lied and denied for years, some eventually were caught straight up like ARod. Others never formally like Bonds, but they all lied the whole time. Palmero, McGuire, Sosa, etc. Ortiz still lies to this day even with a failed test.

[topper09er]

Not that it really makes any difference to the topic at hand but Braun was suspended for being linked to Biogenesis in 2013. Not for his positive test in 2011. Seems like some think he was suspended for the positive test and resulting shenanigans.

 

No, he accepted a suspension because of his actions from 2011 which he admitted to. Being "linked" to Biogensis is not against any rules.

 

Ryan Braun from 2013:

 

"During the latter part of the 2011 season, I was dealing with a nagging injury and I turned to products for a short period of time that I shouldn't have used. "

 

"After my interview with MLB in late June of this year, I came to the realization that it was time to come to grips with the truth," Braun said. "I was never presented with baseball's evidence against me, but I didn't need to be, because I knew what I had done."

 

"It was a huge mistake for which I am deeply ashamed and I compounded the situation by not admitting my mistakes immediately,"

 

"I have no one to blame but myself. I know that over the last year and a half I made some serious mistakes, both in the information I failed to share during my arbitration hearing and the comments I made to the press afterwards,"

 

"I kept the truth from everyone."

[danzig6767]

That's fair, I see the difference you're saying. It could have probably been phrased better. Maybe something like 'every player accused' rather than the way I did which includes those after the suspension is handed down when they don't have any choice but to give the apology. Or something like they "lie until caught red handed", some phrasing like that. Process usually goes that they're accused (if it's public) and then deny up until the suspension is handed down and it's over so they give the canned apology/excuse.

I do think other busted players learned a lesson from guys like Braun and Palmeiro.

 

They saw the heavy backlash which came from defiantly proclaiming your innocence in front of TV cameras vs simply putting out a canned statement/lie saying they must have unknowingly taken something which triggered a positive test.

 

Even though everybody knows that these statements are a lie about unknowingly taking something which triggered a positive test, and the apology for doing so is only being said for PR reasons, it just is a way smarter path to take for handling a PED bust than holding a press conference and defiantly claiming complete innocence.

 

Mix in the implying that the Fed Ex guy may have tampered with his urine sample, Braun couldn't have handled the situation any worse than if he was purposely trying to ruin his reputation forever. Other players and their PR guys saw how this played out and realized that this was exactly the opposite way in which their players should handle a PED bust.

 

Instead, just put out a generic statement, pretend to be sorry, and answer as few questions about it as possible.

[Fear The Chorizo]

His link to Biogenesis that MLB pinned on him in 2013 had to do with his actions in 2011 that likely led to his failed test in the first place. So while his suspension wasn't ultimately from the failed test, the evidence justifying it was from the timeframe leading up to and around the failed test.

[coolhandluke121]

 

He said he would have found it hard not to. That's not the same as saying he's do it. And if he did, I wouldn't like him. I hate that do anything you can to get ahead and bend rules as much as possible mentality. I hate people like that in my personal life and in sports. I still believe the essence of sport requires some honor.

 

While I personally disagree with your stance on Braun (I guess I'm more indifferent to him), I have enjoyed reading this back-and-forth, and I believe you have laid our your stance on your feelings toward him well, without getting overly defensive and/or telling people that they should or need to agree with you. You've had a solid argument to most retorts, even those that have been unfairly put together to even mean-spirited. I agree, too, that you can be a fan of the team while strongly disliking (or even loathing) a member of that team. If he does well and helps the team win, you are happy for the team, but not the player. I get that.

 

Thanks, good post. You know, the best counterargument is that you can't hold onto your hate, and you have to forgive for your own sake. But those people are misunderstanding what I mean when I say I hate him. It's dispassionate and it doesn't keep me up at night. It just means he still gets a thumbs-down from me. As someone whom I will never know personally and who is only a ball-player to me, all I care about is whether you seem to be a decent human being in your personal life, whether you work hard to earn what's been given to you, and whether you cheat. That's not asking a lot. (Of course production is a factor too, but when I say I hated Wily Peralta, it's not the same as saying I hate Ryan Braun.)

 

More importantly, it seems there are just as many people, if not more, getting bent out of shape that some people still despise Braun, and they're the ones that need to get over it. Life is too short to live vicariously through your favorite athletes. That's not healthy, and it also seems kind of naive to think people would ever let him forget it. They really don't owe anybody any explanation if they want to give him those two thumbs down for the rest of his life. It's not the same as never forgiving him as a person, and it's not a punishment; it's a perfectly normal feeling they have for him. You can forgive an ex for cheating; that doesn't mean anyone has a right to tell you it's time to get over it and you should stop disliking them for it.

[jli27]

So, he made the same lie every player made that gets caught.

No he really didn't

 

Most who get busted, they put out a generic statement/lie saying that they must have unknowingly taken something which triggered a positive test, but they apologize for not being more careful and accept any punishment coming their way.

 

By doing this, they smartly avoid what Braun stepped into by him holding a press conference where he defiantly claimed total innocence and also implied that the guy who handled his urine may have framed him.

 

There is a difference between those ways of handling a positive PED test and it's why Braun received so much more backlash compared to others who got busted.

 

Braun let his pride and ego get in the way of handling the situation smarter, and thus has paid a bigger price for getting busted than other players have.

 

This. Exactly. Still haven't clapped for the guy when he bats. Makes me angry every time I think about it. Not telling anyone else how they should feel... but this sums it up for me.

[tmwiese55]

I get that, but he'd won the appeal so in a weird spot. In hindsight he handled it wrong though. In a way you could say he's more honest because after everything came out he fully admitted it, whereas everyone else gives the token appology and that they didn't do it on purpose, which is probably a lie 95% of the time.

[The stache]

I simply don't agree. When Braun won his appeal, a lot of people had the wool over their eyes. Every discussion about it, even the ones here, seemed to be close to 50/50 with a lot of people believing his nonsense about the collector, there was no proof, the sample was invalid, etc.

 

Most intelligent people thought it was a technicality. But the point is that he was better off being gracious and just letting it go. He won - game over. Let the thing die a slow death.

 

But he couldn't do that. His ego wasn't capable of it. And I don't doubt that his stern denial played a role in MLB wanting to make sure they got him. He embarrassed the drug testing protocol.

 

He had everything to lose with that speech because he knew he was lying, and essentially nothing to gain because his critics still didn't believe him.

 

The bolded part is pure speculation on your part. Or, do you claim some divine omniscience?

 

The truth is, you have absolutely no idea what discussions Braun had with his legal team/PR people regarding what would be said, and the tone of his statement. None. You are fabricating a narrative.

 

Do you think Braun just autonomously decided to get in front of the camera, brushing off the advice of the people that accomplished the first (known) victorious appeal against Major League Baseball, in order to satiate his ego? Logic would impart that Braun's words, body language, and tone, were worked out long before Braun ever stepped in front of a camera. I have no doubt, whatsoever, that he rehearsed his statement in front of his team the same way a witness would be prepped prior to taking the stand.

 

And, this whole "Braun should have released a short statement and let it go" spiel sounds great now in hindsight because their strategy didn't ultimately have the desired outcome. But neither Braun or his team had the benefit of foresight. They certainly didn't know about the Biogenesis investigation that was simmering.

 

What if he had just released a short statement? How would that have played with the media? ESPN would have jumped all over it. I can imagine that blowhard Buster Olney pontificating about Braun's actions:

 

"Braun just won a major, unprecedented victory against Major League Baseball, a victory which came after his confidential information was leaked for all the world to scrutinize, irrevocably damaging his reputation in the process, and this is his reaction? Something seems amiss."

 

And that Biogenesis investigation? Braun accepted a suspension, and admitted guilt. Yes. In his position, with identical circumstances, I would have done the same thing. It was clear that MLB was going to stop at nothing until they got Braun suspended. While Braun is hardly poor, he doesn't have the endless resources that Major League Baseball does. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but, to my recollection, the "smoking gun" revelation from Biogenesis was that Braun's name appeared on a few lists of players accused of using banned substances. But, didn't those other players have prescription information listed on the sheets (ie dollar amounts for x amount of PED), and Braun didn't? Wasn't, in fact, one of Braun's attorneys also on the list alongside Braun? Are we to believe that Braun's attorney was also getting banned substances? My recollection is that Braun hired the chief guy from Biogenesis to aid Braun's preparation for his 2011 appeal.

 

I'll have to go back and look at the reporting germane to Braun's decision to accept his punishment, but I have to say, the whole Biogenesis investigation reeked of a witch hunt. This was not a court proceeding, but using a civil case as a parallel, once again, have not innocent persons accepted a plea deal from overzealous prosecutors in order to put legal proceedings, and the concurrent media circus, behind them? I watched the new episode of Billions last night. The Attorney General is forcing the District Attorney of New York to prosecute an innocent man in a capital case. History is rife with incidences of prosecutorial malfeasance. Are we to believe that baseball would never bully a player into bending to their will? Braun won his appeal. And what happened? Major League Baseball promptly fired Shyam Das, the well-respected independent arbitrator, and began working on their next attempt to nail Braun's butt to the Commissioner's door.

[MrTPlush]

Too bad. So it was a lose-lose situation for Braun? Say something, bad. Say little, bad. You know why it was like that? Cause he put himself in that situation. He cheated and lied. Couldn’t just man up. Put him in a position to lose no matter what, good.

 

Witch hunt? Good, he was guilty.

 

He gets everything he deserves from people that emotionally attached to him or the situation.

[jerichoholicninja]

They hate him cause they aint him.

[adambr2]

https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/08/23/baseball-cop-book-excerpt-eddie-dominguez-anthony-bosch-mlb-drug-testing-ryan-bauer

 

Pretty interesting stuff on Bosch, Braun, A-Rod, etc.

[yoshii8]

I'm not a fan of Braun because what he tried to do to the trainer who took his sample. He tried to vilify him, even though he knew he did nothing wrong. That to me was ultimate bush league.

[KeithStone53151]

I'm not a fan of Braun because what he tried to do to the trainer who took his sample. He tried to vilify him, even though he knew he did nothing wrong. That to me was ultimate bush league.

 

Hate a guy for the rest of his career over one thing he did what 7 years ago now?

 

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/7/23/4548572/ryan-braun-biogenesis-brewers-dino-laurenzi

 

As noted in this article, he did not try to villify him.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Oh no, not this can 'o worms again.

[tmwiese55]

I don't want to get into the whole discussion gain. But yes, the tester guy did do things incorrectly in the process. No doubt about it. Turns out Braun was dirty anyway, but the guy did do things wrong.

[Thurston Fluff]

That was a good read thanks adambr2. It is kind of ironic how Bosch mocked baseball for it's weak testing but not recognizing he got caught by MLB. The best thing they did was add the investigative arm to the anti-PED crusade.

[tmwiese55]

Good point Thurston. Yea he seems to be mocking the whole thing while it's fairly clearly the best testing in the world. Sure, if determined people can find a way to get around tests but all you can do is make it as hard as possible and MLB has done that. I've always found it weird how obsessed people are about this in baseball while ignoring it in all other sports, usually with shams for testing policies in those sports.

 

Even look at the examples he's giving on how to cheat. Sure, it's still cheating but in order to clear the test they're being forced to use miniscule amounts to avoid detection. Right there testing is "working" in that it's not allowing the rampant usage of the late 90s early 00s where they're straight up juicing and tacking on tons of muscle.

[MrTPlush]

Did you guys read the article closely enough? Bosch wasn't the guy getting caught. The players were getting caught because guys like Braun were eating an entire thing of testosterone gummy bears like it was a bag of Doritos after smoking the devil's lettuce. That is the only reason Braun got caught, because he didn't follow to protocol of taking his stuff. He went years (like since his college days) doing testosterone in some greater form that couldn't get detected and had his gummies to activate it.

 

Pretty interesting article none the less.

[tmwiese55]

Yes but it's still the best testing there is, everything he says applies to every other sport and their procedures are way less than MLB. And like I say in my last paragraph, it's forcing them to do this small stuff instead of the real deal stuff of the past. That is success right there. It's impossible to catch everything but massively reducing was possible and they've seeming or very likely done that.

[MrTPlush]

Yes but it's still the best testing there is, everything he says applies to every other sport and their procedures are way less than MLB. And like I say in my last paragraph, it's forcing them to do this small stuff instead of the real deal stuff of the past. That is success right there. It's impossible to catch everything but massively reducing was possible and they've seeming or very likely done that.

 

Oh I agree, as does Bosch...doesn't change the fact it still is kind of pathetic testing in the grand scheme.