Why is Ryan Braun so hated?

[topper09er]

Maybe you guys need to review the tape again on this one...

 

 

Here are some direct quotes from Braun

 

"I tried to handle the entire situation with honor, with integrity, with class, with dignity and with professionalism because that is who I am and that how I've always lived my life"

-lie

 

"If I had done this intentionally or unintentionally, I'd be the first one to step up and say "I did it"

-lie

 

"By no means am I perfect, but if I've ever made any mistakes in my life I've taken responsibility for my actions"

-lie

 

"I truly believe in my heart, and I would bet my life that this substance never entered my body at any point"

-good thing no one called him on this bluff.

 

"There were a lot of times I wanted to come out, tell the entire story, but at the end of the day I recognized what's actually best for the game of baseball, and I've put that ahead of what was actually best for myself"

-lie

 

"I have always stood up for what is right, today is about everybody who has ever been wrongly accused, and everybody who has had to stand up for what is actually right"

-lie

 

"I will continue to take the high road because that's who I am, and that's the way that I've lived my life"

-lie

 

"We won because the truth is on my side"

-lie

 

"...I contacted the players association and expressed to them that I have not done anything that could have possibly led to this test result. I told them that I promise you on everything that has ever meant anything to me in my life, the morals, the values, the virtues by which I've lived for my 28 years on this planet, I did not do this."

-lie

[pacopete4]

Is anyone debating that he didn't lie? Haven't seen that stance taken by anyone unless I missed it.

[topper09er]

I don't understand how anyone can watch that knowing what we know now, and not view Braun as "a bad guy". Yes, suddenly he is the bad guy after that.

[tmwiese55]

So, he made the same lie every player made that gets caught. And again, everyone lies in their lives. they're just not celebrities and have to do it in front of millions of people with a camera in his face. Everyone makes mistakes, he went down a path he shouldn't have and he's paid by his tarnished reputation/legacy now. This is the old glass houses stones thing for me, i'm not going to sit here and act like I'm holier than everyone else. And as a fan, I don't think Red Sox fans are too upset by breaking the curse with two known steroid user during the prime era of steroid abuse, not gummies that rarely even trip tests. I'd have loved that WS if his staying healthy got us there.

 

I don't know if he's a jerk or bad person in normal life, as none of us do. But you really don't hear rumblings from the clubhouse about him and from the outside it seems everyone gets along with him, so take that for what it it is. And of course he's never gotten in any off field trouble other than this (which pales in comparison to stuff other politicians/celebrities/athletes get into) that we've ever heard of, yet he gets more scorn over PEDs. I've never seen him shove an umpire and spit in his face like Molina has done, but Molina will walk into the Hall.

[MillerParkSouth]

I think it's hilarious/infuriating that everyone seems to act like Braun is the only athlete who puts stuff into his body trying to achieve peak performance. He made a mistake, didn't handle it too well, and has been a model citizen ever since. I was stunned when I was at opening day last year and there were STILL Brewers fans who were booing him! Get over it people, he's one of the best players in franchise history, enjoy him. Nobody's perfect.

[topper09er]

We are talking about why Braun continues to get hate.

 

I think the real reason is that because ESPN made it their mission to smear him and they indoctrinated all of their viewers to hate him. After re-watching his press conference I noticed he gloated about "certain network", probably his biggest mistake.

 

Couple that with his over the top, lying press conference, and that is the answer. Yes everybody lies, and if certain people you lied about knew you were lying in your own life they would probably hate you too. Lying is not a all or nothing thing for a lot of people, and people will forgive or excuse a "white lie" vs something like Braun's press conference. The press conference was so over the top, doubling, tripling down on his lie with continuous talk about how he lives his life in this super virtuous way. If you can't see the degree of his lying was at historic levels and that separates what he did from what "everybody" does "all the time", then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think it is completely reasonable that Braun suddenly became a bad guy after that shameful display, and if any of us got caught in a similar circumstance you would also suddenly become a bad guy.

[topper09er]

He made a mistake, didn't handle it too well,

 

This is difference, some people view it as he didn't handle to well, and others view it as he absolutely handled it in the worst possible way that anyone could ever imagine.

[owbc]

Is anyone debating that he didn't lie? Haven't seen that stance taken by anyone unless I missed it.

 

No, but they are using "whataboutism" to rationalize it...it's unconvincing.

[pacopete4]

A lie is a lie. Braun was over the top in defense of his actions because he knew what was at stake for him. He had thought he had gotten away with it and wanted people to know it. It was an error in judgment on his part and again, one that even he has said he would love to change. But he can't go back and going forward, all he does is like others have stated, be a model citizen and good clubhouse guy. He's the leader of that locker room whether people want to admit that or not. He's doing everything he can to be a good representative of the Milwaukee Brewers and for the most part, people will see that. Those that live in glass houses, won't.

[FVBrewerFan]

A little house cleaning on the subject.

 

1) As Briggs pointed out, the "hate" from opposing teams' fans is due in large part that Braun is good. Ramirez was booed here, Molina still is. Can you blame fans from teams like the Pirates booing Braun? He has destroyed them over the years. Sure, the PED thing poured fuel on the fire.

 

2) "Hate" is a strong word. Even most of the Brewers fans who still boo Braun probably don't HATE him.

 

3) People make mistakes, everybody lies, other players have used PEDs. All true, and excuses exactly none of Braun's actions. It is not a level playing field for players who do not use PEDs, plain and simple. As far as the "everybody lies" thing Braun is a public figure. Nobody cares if I lie, or tmwiese, or topper.

 

4) Finally, I've seen comments about how ONE TIME he rubbed cream on his leg. All I can say is if you choose to believe that, fine. I will believe he has used various PEDs off and on since his days in Miami.

[tmwiese55]

Average joe jabroni who cheats on his/her partner makes the same lies over and over, it's just not a public thing. People lie and backstab in business all the time. Two simple examples like that are probably common among folks here and at least people we cross paths with every day and might consider friends. And he's no worse of a person than them, that's all I'm saying in regards to the lying topic. Beyond that, there's people you cross every day in life that have done some really crap stuff, likely hitting spouses, beating people up in bars, DUIs, etc. You probably don't even know about it and if you do you likely still treat them like people not as if they're some pariah of a human.

 

He went down this road where at the point of that conference he'd dug himself a deep hole already and was kinda backed in a corner. That's a huge mistake in his celebrity status, but if that's the worst thing he's done and otherwise treats the people around him in life in a nice, honest, empathetic manner then he's far from a societal pariah that he's portrayed out to be due to this public scandal. If he's a jerk to the people in his life or random joes he encounters (waiters, bellhops, maids, etc) then yea he's a jerk. Simple example, almost all rich people like athletes routinely cheat on their wife as we've seen over the years of scandals. If he's the rare one that doesn't, then I'd consider all the other guys worse people than him (assuming it's not an upfront agreement with their spouse) if his worst act was this scandal.

 

But here we are judging people from our computer, that's really the whole thing I'm against with me taking this side of the discussion. These people are still just human beings, crap happens. To expect them to be perfect is just not possible. Bad decisions are made, you start down a path you shouldn't. It happens. Hopefully he learned and is a better person because of it. I wish everyone had a bit more empathy instead of the current gotcha attitude so prevalent in the media these days trying to bring people down.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Hitler made it into the thread. He always does if it's long enough.

[FVBrewerFan]

But here we are judging people from our computer, that's really the whole thing I'm against with me taking this side of the discussion. These people are still just human beings, crap happens. To expect them to be perfect is just not possible. Bad decisions are made, you start down a path you shouldn't. It happens. Hopefully he learned and is a better person because of it. I wish everyone had a bit more empathy instead of the current gotcha attitude so prevalent in the media these days trying to bring people down.

 

Yes athletes are human, yes they make mistakes. What most of them don't do is take PEDs then lie about it. This whole "nobody's perfect" mantra just falls on deaf ears.

 

Oh, and for the record, I don't accept the premise most everyone in business lies, all executives cheat on their wives, etc. And if I do run across people like that, no, I don't like or respect them either. So no different than Braun.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

But here we are judging people from our computer, that's really the whole thing I'm against with me taking this side of the discussion. These people are still just human beings, crap happens. To expect them to be perfect is just not possible. Bad decisions are made, you start down a path you shouldn't. It happens. Hopefully he learned and is a better person because of it. I wish everyone had a bit more empathy instead of the current gotcha attitude so prevalent in the media these days trying to bring people down.

 

Yes athletes are human, yes they make mistakes. What most of them don't do is take PEDs then lie about it. This whole "nobody's perfect" mantra just falls on deaf ears.

 

Oh, and for the record, I don't accept the premise most everyone in business lies, all executives cheat on their wives, etc. And if I do run across people like that, no, I don't like or respect them either. So no different than Braun.

 

Genuinely not sure about this. Maybe not now, but I really doubt this was true in baseball about 10 years ago.

 

If you include the guys who juiced and still weren't good enough to make it, this number is probably a lot larger as well.

 

Even if we don't accept that, tmw is spot-on about the culture we're in. It's about public shaming, not morality. Our entire culture is "gotcha" nonsense, people behind computers ridiculing famous people for things they do every day. Sometimes it's so benign it's a complete joke. I'm just remembering the "disgusting" stuff Ken Bone got called out for saying that was totally mundane everyday rambling.

 

It's a never-ending blog-fest of trying to point out how morally terrible the next guy is for no other purpose besides putting oneself on a pedestal. Braun may not be a great example of this but he's still got a valid point.

[bigredrobbo]

My take on the whole "Braun lied/didn't lie" situation is this.

 

Regardless of EXACTLY what went down, and only one person knows that, MLB still controls who gets to play. Nobody has a RIGHT to play major league baseball - it's their ball, they let you play with it.

 

The HUGE black eye that MLB suffered as a result of procedural errors and/or loopholes that they hadn't ensured would be watertight, meant that someone had to pay. Had Braun ever seen the inside of a court room, as others have alluded to, good legal defense could have gotten him off on a technicality, or planted enough seeds of doubt as to whether he actually had taken PEDs. Maybe he's lying when he said he never took PEDs, or maybe he's lying when he said he had, because the alternative was being told that his career was over. Ultimately, MLB still has the final say on who gets to play, a la Shoeless Joe. Marge Schott, who also brought the game into disrepute - she faced a ban.

 

I have no doubt that the witch hunt against Braun - in particular given Selig's need to show he wasn't biased towards the Brewers, would have dragged on. Braun, not wanting to risk his career ending there and then, fell on his sword, either because he knew he was guilty, or actually WAS innocent, but didn't want to lose a charge of being, in Landis's words, “no longer a fit companion for other ballplayers.”

 

It reminds me of the scene in A Few Good Men where the Marines are exonerated of the crime they are accused of, but still don't get to be Marines anymore.

 

Either way, the hatred for Braun would have been far less had he been a "cheeky chappy" like Manny being Manny, or a club icon like Pete Rose.

[JimH5]

I'm fine with remembering Braun's PED episode and thinking that he was boo-worthy.

 

But I'm not going to hold a grudge against him--because I look to the Brewers for entertainment, and I want to cheer for them now. And the only person who would suffer from that grudge would be me.

 

He was a grandstanding liar and cheater. He paid the price within the game and outside the game and suffered financially for it. And he's been an upstanding guy ever since then.

 

His shine has been permanently dulled. But those days are long gone and I don't have the energy or interest in digging up old feelings about someone whose exploits I turn to for fun.

[TURBO]

It must really suck to have a player on your own team that you hate, can't root for, and can't celebrate when he hits a game winning bomb!!!

 

Just let the hate flow through you Ryan Braun haters...

[Bob Skube Snacks]

For those of you who keep saying, "no one outside of Milwaukee remembers the details"? Being a Milwaukee transplant who lives elsewhere, as in, right in the heart of Cubs-Cardinals country? I can assure you that opposing fans definitely remember many of the details.

 

What they damn him for is being is liar more so than being a cheat. Being a liar to cover up being a cheat is unforgivable in their eyes. And frankly? I don't blame them.

 

I'm like many who supports the jersey over the man, any man, really, I'm past the point of hero worship, but particularly Braun.

 

I hope Braun hits 40 home runs, but not for him, but for the Brewers. Once he's done? See ya.

 

And, yes, I do think he could have been the greatest Brewer of all-time, better than St. Robin. (I don't mean to be derogatory towards Yount, whom I love, but that's the pedestal he's put on.)

 

Yount, fans conveniently forget, mixed in plenty of average seasons with his great ones. Through to 2012, Braun projected as far better player than Yount.

 

People use injuries as the reason for Braun's drop in production since. Don't forget that PED use can exacerbate injuries. Of course, we'll never really know if that's the case.

 

Retired number? I think that remains to be seen and a lot of it will have to do with how he cements or doesn't cement his legacy with the current crop of Brewers.

 

If the Brewers ascend to a NL pennant or a World Series and Braun is viewed as a significant contributor? Then, yes, he'll have established himself as a cog in two different winning eras and will deserve that honor even with the public relations backlash outside of Milwaukee.

 

If the Brewers don't win, or, he just kind of fades away? I think it's going to be hard to retire his No. 8. The public relations hit will be significant and it will be perceived outside of the Brewers bubble as rewarding a player for PED use during his peak years of prodcution, even if he wasn't a user for the entire period.

[torts]

Maybe you guys need to review the tape again on this one...

 

 

Here are some direct quotes from Braun

 

"I tried to handle the entire situation with honor, with integrity, with class, with dignity and with professionalism because that is who I am and that how I've always lived my life"

-lie

 

"If I had done this intentionally or unintentionally, I'd be the first one to step up and say "I did it"

-lie

 

"By no means am I perfect, but if I've ever made any mistakes in my life I've taken responsibility for my actions"

-lie

 

"I truly believe in my heart, and I would bet my life that this substance never entered my body at any point"

-good thing no one called him on this bluff.

 

"There were a lot of times I wanted to come out, tell the entire story, but at the end of the day I recognized what's actually best for the game of baseball, and I've put that ahead of what was actually best for myself"

-lie

 

"I have always stood up for what is right, today is about everybody who has ever been wrongly accused, and everybody who has had to stand up for what is actually right"

-lie

 

"I will continue to take the high road because that's who I am, and that's the way that I've lived my life"

-lie

 

"We won because the truth is on my side"

-lie

 

"...I contacted the players association and expressed to them that I have not done anything that could have possibly led to this test result. I told them that I promise you on everything that has ever meant anything to me in my life, the morals, the values, the virtues by which I've lived for my 28 years on this planet, I did not do this."

-lie

 

dude, he WON the appeal, he cannot start stating facts contrary to what his appeal case was built upon at the press conference. He and his crew had a story, that story won, so they had to stick with it.

[jerichoholicninja]

Not that it really makes any difference to the topic at hand but Braun was suspended for being linked to Biogenesis in 2013. Not for his positive test in 2011. Seems like some think he was suspended for the positive test and resulting shenanigans.

[pacopete4]

Not that it really makes any difference to the topic at hand but Braun was suspended for being linked to Biogenesis in 2013. Not for his positive test in 2011. Seems like some think he was suspended for the positive test and resulting shenanigans.

Huge difference. Now I do hate him.

[StearnsFTW]

It must really suck to have a player on your own team that you hate, can't root for, and can't celebrate when he hits a game winning bomb!!!

 

Just let the hate flow through you Ryan Braun haters...

 

I think he's a piece of crap, but oh baby, I jumped off the couch last night just the same. I personally have no trouble rooting for him.

 

And I certainly don't hate him. I don't really think anyone hates him.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

His crew had to stick to that story maybe. He definitely did not have to do that press conference. His ego did, but he didn't.

[torts]

His crew had to stick to that story maybe. He definitely did not have to do that press conference. His ego did, but he didn't.

 

as the first player to win an appeal, that was a huge deal. no player in history had won an appeal, and after his failing of the test was leaked (when it should never have been made public) he was doing what he thought was best to repair the damage.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'm not sure how he thought that would repair damage. I'm pretty sure I read that the press conference was one of his biggest personal regrets.

 

There was no reason to do it. None. Release a one-sentence statement about being happy to move on. The rest was Braun overkill. It was an ego nuclear missile to win a war he'd already won.