Why is Ryan Braun so hated?

[TexasCheesehead]

When Ryan Braun first was accused of taking PEDs, I was entirely convinced the result was a fluke and it was somehow an incorrect sample. My opinion was further validated by the fact that the handler didn't follow proper procedure. Honestly, I fought on baseball forums for a solid year, defending Braun on each and every occasion. I'm one of the rare fans, I guess, that still loved him after he admitted to lying to us. I guess a part of me was angry, but I understood how he could get caught up in a lie and was afraid of losing his reputation. He's still my favorite Brewer and I'd be incredibly saddened to see him go. He's a good man that made a mistake and I think he's genuinely learned from it. Then again, I've always been quicker to forgive than most and I can understand why some felt betrayed.

[Patrick425]

How many players appealed and were found to not have violated league PED rules? 1, Ryan Braun.

 

How many players who won their appeals, held a press conference to gloat about winning their appeal? 1, Ryan Braun.

 

How many players who did both of the above, were found to have violated the league PED rules and be suspended? 1, Ryan Braun.

 

The hate for Braun has nothing to do with PEDs and everything to do with how he handled the entire situation. When you make a point to proclaim your innocence and how the system is against you, you better be the victim and not the guilty guy who just got away with it. Braun's actions were classic Hollywood bad guy behavior - commit the crime, get away with it, gloat about it, then get his comeuppance. Most fans don't give a damn about PED usage as its clear from reaction to the other violators, but they love to hate a "bad guy" like Ryan Braun.

 

Personally, I will be glad when he is done as a Brewer and we never have to be linked to him. For now, I want him to make our team better, but I will never defend him to any other fan as his actions were indefensible.

 

This is pretty much 100% how I feel as well.

[FVBrewerFan]

The hate for Braun has nothing to do with PEDs and everything to do with how he handled the entire situation.

 

I don't agree with that at all. Lots of people would hold the PED thing against him regardless of how he handled it. Just the fact he did it. No doubt, the way he handled it made it much worse.

[RobDeer 45]

I actually feel almost bad for Braun, because I find him to be a sad character now. Like he's a muted version of what he was. Almost like the movie character who has everything, it all comes crashing down, then loses his money, wife/family, and is left with nothing. I don't feel bad for him for cheating, or all the aftermath stuff. I feel bad for him because I bet he wishes he could go back and do it all differently. He didn't need HGH to be great, but I think he needed to feed his ego.

 

I've said this before, but I think Braun is hated because of the way he's always come across. I think he appears to be cocky. He appears to be a bit of a loner. I don't think he has a lot of real friends. I think when Prince was on the team, everyone else gravitated towards him and not Braun. This is just my opinion, and the way I've always viewed him, but have a hunch that others do too. I believe he still gets booed like he does, partially because of this, and the rest because of how everything went down after he was caught. To most people, he looks like a bad guy now, plain and simple. You can dissect it all you want, and try to justify, or make him out to not be so bad, but to baseball fans outside of Wisconsin, he's a bad guy.

 

I like cheering for Braun and watching him play, but I'll never view him the same. Like I said, I feel sad for him. Sad that he made some bad choices along the way. He could have been great without HGH. Now, whenever he does something, I don't feel like he can fully celebrate it. He's not allowed to, because of his past indiscretions.

[MrTPlush]

The hate for Braun has nothing to do with PEDs and everything to do with how he handled the entire situation.

 

I don't agree with that at all. Lots of people would hold the PED thing against him regardless of how he handled it. Just the fact he did it. No doubt, the way he handled it made it much worse.

 

But that is because of how big he was. Won the MVP the year he cheated(at least that as far as we know that was it). Doesn’t help he fell off a cliff production wise after getting suspended.

 

I don’t think Braun cares that much or feels bad for what he did. If he did he would have vacated the MVP award. But the large ego is still there much like other athletes. That’s just the reality of it and that isn’t unique to Braun. He was probably regretful he got caught and it put a hole in his giant ego, not that he did something wrong. Is Braun a terrible person? No, but he is a mega ego athlete and that got him in big trouble.

 

It sucks if that is the only time he cheated because obviously he didn’t need it to put up incredible numbers over his career. If that is the case what a great franchise story ruined. A career Brewer was ruined, ouch.

[reillymcshane]

Having lived outside of Wisconsin for five years, I had many opportunities to talk about Braun with people. For the most pare, people see him as a cheater, a liar and a weasel. He tried to game the system, lied about, then insinuated some low level sample collector had done something to frame him.

 

The vast majority people don't know or understand the nuances of Braun's case. So when people start going to nitty gritty details it's pointless. They just see a cheater, a liar and a weasel.

 

Most people I ever talked with regarding Braun didn't hold taking PEDs against him. They aren't happy about it - but they can understand why a guy does it. It was the way he handled the situation after he was busted. He didn't 'man up' and he tried to blame someone else. He wasn't just a cheater. He was also a liar and a weasel.

 

It doesn't help that Braun was really good. People love to tear down people off pedestals. And he has a calm, cool arrogance that turns off many. The PED bust and all that followed only fed into people's perception of him.

 

Again - Cheater. Liar. Weasel. They don't care about the nuances of the situation. They don't care that his test failure should never have been leaked. They don't care that he actually won his appeal. They don't care that the samples were compromised. They don't care about any of that. Because no matter what - in most of these people's eyes - they see a guy who is a cheater, liar and weasel.

[tmwiese55]

The hate for Braun has nothing to do with PEDs and everything to do with how he handled the entire situation.

 

I don't agree with that at all. Lots of people would hold the PED thing against him regardless of how he handled it. Just the fact he did it. No doubt, the way he handled it made it much worse.

 

Among knowledgeable local fans here I think it's legit. However, IMO average joe road fans don't remember how he handled it. Just that he was caught for it whereas they don't remember lower level players, he was MVP superstar level so they all remember. I think it's that simple.

 

For what Plush just said, don't forget he had his best statistical season in 2012 after the failed test when there's almost no way he was doing anything illegal. Moreover, what's he gonna do vacate the MVP and give it to Kemp who was probably doing the same things? Check out who fell off a cliff more and there's probably a reason Kemp stayed completely silent on the whole thing.

[MrTPlush]

The hate for Braun has nothing to do with PEDs and everything to do with how he handled the entire situation.

 

 

For what Plush just said, don't forget he had his best statistical season in 2012 after the failed test when there's almost no way he was doing anything illegal. Moreover, what's he gonna do vacate the MVP and give it to Kemp who was probably doing the same things? Check out who fell off a cliff more and there's probably a reason Kemp stayed completely silent on the whole thing.

 

I wasn’t trying to infer he could have cheated other years. I was just saying it certainly looks bad when you officially get caught and come back from the suspension a shell of your former self.

 

That’s an assumption though and I don’t think it would have gone to anyone. Pretty sure they said it would just be vacated if he did give it up. If I recall Kemp was not fully quiet. I don’t remember if it was his words or through someone else, but he definitely thought Braun should give it up to him. Can’t remember if it was after the leak or after he actually got suspended.

[tmwiese55]

Gotcha, I agree on that notion that it looks bad after the suspension. And average joe fans aren't going to know anything about the thumb injury that essentially made that happen, so it looks much worse to the outside. Plus the litany of other injuries, although those could certainly be a part of PED use evidence in that he now can't use to get over those little things. The thumb specifically though was a fluky thing irrelevant to any of that but yes to the outside world it looks bad.

[FVBrewerFan]

I will always believe there's a decent chance he used PEDs his entire career going back to his days in Miami. Maybe that's not fair, but that's what I believe. In fact, in a lot of ways, it makes more sense than suddenly just trying it one year.

[pacopete4]

2014 & 2015 buck the trend that he fell off the face of the earth after his suspension. Not using didn't derail his career. Nagging injuries have put halt to some of the gaudy numbers he was putting up.

[topper09er]

Something I haven't really seen in this thread yet, and the actual reason I think Braun continues to get the hate, is that ESPN had a vendetta against him. I think they were the ones who leaked the info, and they had a vested interest in that story being true. I feel like they covered the Braun story 10x more than they covered the entire Brewers team during our 2011 division title season. They made the people hate him and did not let them forget to hate him, and they probably have more sway over what the average fans thinks that the actual real life events. Palmeiro had basically the exact same situation, caught lying about PEDs after a very strong sounding public denial, in court under oath no less. Shown on ESPN and forgotten about a week later.

[MrTPlush]

2014 & 2015 buck the trend that he fell off the face of the earth after his suspension. Not using didn't derail his career. Nagging injuries have put halt to some of the gaudy numbers he was putting up.

 

I’m sure you mean 2015-2016. Still notably less production than 2011-2012. By then the hate for some grew so high outside Milwaukee any rebound they wouldnt know to care about or they will blame it on PEDs.

 

Nagging injuries were his reasoning for taking the PEDs...so I’d say that is pretty relevant. Once again it looks pretty questionable to people when you blame nagging injuries for reasoning to use PEDs (to stay on the field and stay fresh) and then have your career turn into a body of glass.

[tmwiese55]

Something I haven't really seen in this thread yet, and the actual reason I think Braun continues to get the hate, is that ESPN had a vendetta against him. I think they were the ones who leaked the info, and they had a vested interest in that story being true. I feel like they covered the Braun story 10x more than they covered the entire Brewers team during our 2011 division title season. They made the people hate him and did not let them forget to hate him, and they probably have more sway over what the average fans thinks that the actual real life events. Palmeiro had basically the exact same situation, caught lying about PEDs after a very strong sounding public denial, in court under oath no less. Shown on ESPN and forgotten about a week later.

 

Very true, it was pounded into their heads so 6 years later everyone still remembers.

 

Just like how Ray Rice is a societal pariah, yet Tyreek Hill is loved because he's so entertaining on the football field. And countless other examples.

[adambr2]

2014 & 2015 buck the trend that he fell off the face of the earth after his suspension. Not using didn't derail his career. Nagging injuries have put halt to some of the gaudy numbers he was putting up.

 

He was a good player in 2015 and 2016 but nowhere close to the caliber of player he was in 2011 and 2012 pre-suspension. 2012 was his last year as an elite MVP caliber player.

[sveumrules]

Just as an aside, I was curious how much Braun's performance has really declined "post-PEDs".

 

2007-12 | PA: 3,854 (16th) wRC+: 149 (4th) Batting Runs: 228.8 (4th) fWAR: 30.3 (6th)

 

2013-17 | PA: 2,390 (111th) wRC+: 124 (38th) Batting Runs: 67.0 (37th) fWAR: 10.0 (104th)

 

So pretty much from top 5 hitter/player to top 40 hitter/100 player with injury issues.

 

I could definitely settle for another 110 or so games of 125ish wRC+ this season with a couple more crowd quieting moments like in San Diego thrown in for good measure.

[pacopete4]

2014 & 2015 buck the trend that he fell off the face of the earth after his suspension. Not using didn't derail his career. Nagging injuries have put halt to some of the gaudy numbers he was putting up.

 

He was a good player in 2015 and 2016 but nowhere close to the caliber of player he was in 2011 and 2012 pre-suspension. 2012 was his last year as an elite MVP caliber player.

 

How many players have the production at 31-34 that they did at 25-28? I mean we have to be a little bit honest about the situation too. It's not like many guys produce at the levels he did while in their 30's... at least not guys who weren't (allegedly) taking something.

[Jopal78]

It's complicated with Braun. Regardless of the cheating, in 48 years of the franchise Ryan Braun is one of their three greatest players of all-time. Even since the cheating and its aftermath, Braun has hit 142 home runs in his last 732 games (or approximately one every 5.1 games), he's stolen 97 bases (or approximately one every 7.5 games). When he eventually is done as a Milwaukee Brewer he most likely will be the leader in virtually every offensive category (and if he played for another 8 seasons I'm sure he would end up their hits leader too). The only thing holding him back over the years is injuries, which is more likely than not why he was cheating in the first place, to be able to play through nagging injuries.

 

There are plenty of "villains" in baseball, Braun gets booed mercilessly because he is also one of the best players of his generation. The team understandably doesn't use him much in their marketing despite the fact he is a bonafide MLB superstar. People are ambivalent about Braun, and I get that, but I also get that there probably won't be another player any time soon with Braun's ability that suits up for the Brewers for the majority of their career.

[adambr2]

2014 & 2015 buck the trend that he fell off the face of the earth after his suspension. Not using didn't derail his career. Nagging injuries have put halt to some of the gaudy numbers he was putting up.

 

He was a good player in 2015 and 2016 but nowhere close to the caliber of player he was in 2011 and 2012 pre-suspension. 2012 was his last year as an elite MVP caliber player.

 

How many players have the production at 31-34 that they did at 25-28? I mean we have to be a little bit honest about the situation too. It's not like many guys produce at the levels he did while in their 30's... at least not guys who weren't (allegedly) taking something.

 

I would say that Braun's closest comparable in age and offensive production early in their careers is Joey Votto, and Votto has remained amazingly consistent at the same age as Braun.

 

But yeah, there are some greats who don't. There's no way of knowing what has contributed to Braun's decline but there's probably more than one factor.

[Fear The Chorizo]

He's hated because he won an appeal after the media hammered him for 2-3 months after his PED test result and looming suspension appeal was leaked shortly after he received the NL MVP, then proceeded to hammer the media and all parties involved during that spring training 2012 presser as a way to try and restore his image while hoping the paper trail would dry up on past indiscretions. It was a huge story because it took place during a MLB offseason and it happened to a newly crowned MVP and player that would've otherwise been one of the faces of baseball. Basically, Braun in 2011 was quite similar as a rising star to what Kris Bryant or Bryce Harper currently are. It was obvious his statement during that press conference was carefully crafted, and his PR team and representatives didn't see the forest through the trees and gave Braun bad advice on how to handle things. He couldn't just come out and say "hey, I won my appeal based on a technicality - I really did take PEDs last season." That would've resulted in an automatic suspension at the start of 2012. He also couldn't have just not said anything if he wanted to try and repair his public image. It was a no-win situation, and he took the gamble of openly lying to the media and MLB with his statement at a time when everyone was listening.

 

Hindsight being 20/20, he would've been better off with a statement along the lines of stressing that he respected MLB's PED policy and appeals process, that he was happy he won his appeal, move forward with getting back to playing baseball, and wished things would've been kept confidential throughout like how the policy was supposed to dictate.

 

He burned the media who broke the leaked information, and more importantly burned MLB by making their drug testing policy look like it was full of loopholes - I believe to this day that the press conference directly led to MLB and media officials to double down on investigating PED abuses in search of evidence beyond test results, and it led them to Tony Bosch and ultimately Braun's delayed PED suspension.

[tmwiese55]

First, I know he did it so it is what it is.

 

However, a weird way to think about this as a 'bad luck' thing for him in that obviously the test should have never been leaked. Second, the Miami scandal was about as shady of an investigation any sports or criminal prosecution could do with essentially bribing the witness because MLB was so determined to nail A Rod. Basically MLB went way out of their way to tarnish two major stars (certainly an argument it was justified, not getting into that though here) whereas a few years earlier it would have all been swept under the rug and Braun would be just another great player regressing with age with a good shot at the Hall if he can add up some counting stats in his later years. And the only evidence was some names on a paper and a sleazeball's (being bribed) word that that's what the paper meant. Kinda just saying if it was a few years earlier or a couple different circumstances he'd have flown right under the radar like countless other guys have done. An example to the opposite would be Pujols.

[OnaBadger58]

Just as an aside, I was curious how much Braun's performance has really declined "post-PEDs".

 

2007-12 | PA: 3,854 (16th) wRC+: 149 (4th) Batting Runs: 228.8 (4th) fWAR: 30.3 (6th)

 

2013-17 | PA: 2,390 (111th) wRC+: 124 (38th) Batting Runs: 67.0 (37th) fWAR: 10.0 (104th)

 

So pretty much from top 5 hitter/player to top 40 hitter/100 player with injury issues.

 

I could definitely settle for another 110 or so games of 125ish wRC+ this season with a couple more crowd quieting moments like in San Diego thrown in for good measure.

 

I think the injuries have had a much larger impact for the drop off than not using PEDs. That thumb injury is no joke. Braun literally couldn't pull the ball for an entire season (not to mention his plethora of other injuries). I do wonder if his PED use was for injury prevention/recovery or if the use of PEDs has caused more soft tissue injuries later in his career.

[pacopete4]

First, I know he did it so it is what it is.

 

However, a weird way to think about this as a 'bad luck' thing for him in that obviously the test should have never been leaked. Second, the Miami scandal was about as shady of an investigation any sports or criminal prosecution could do with essentially bribing the witness because MLB was so determined to nail A Rod. Basically MLB went way out of their way to tarnish two major stars (certainly an argument it was justified, not getting into that though here) whereas a few years earlier it would have all been swept under the rug and Braun would be just another great player regressing with age with a good shot at the Hall if he can add up some counting stats in his later years. And the only evidence was same names on a paper and a sleazeball's (being bribed) word that that's what the paper meant. Kinda just saying if it was a few years earlier or a couple different circumstances he'd have flown right under the radar like countless other guys have done. An example to the opposite would be Pujols.

There is something to this. Selig created most of the mess and when guys like Bonds, Clemens etc... basically got away with it, he had to make a case out of someone. That someone was Arod and Braun was a byproduct of that situation. That doesn't excuse Braun but there were sooooooo many more players involved in this. Someone mentioned Kemp and how quiet he has been and the reason is most likely he was doing it too along with many other players.

[DHonks]

Implying that the collector was anti-semitic was beyond pathetic. Braun is a walking piece of poop and I would have done cartwheels if he had been traded to LAD when they had a chance. The whole thing was disgraceful. Never forgive anyone who's that good at lying because they are pure slime.

 

I never heard this. Of course, I've never heard Braun mention his fractional ethnicity, just various reports. Pretty sure he's not religiously Jewish, though.

[TooLiveBrew]

I will always believe there's a decent chance he used PEDs his entire career going back to his days in Miami. Maybe that's not fair, but that's what I believe. In fact, in a lot of ways, it makes more sense than suddenly just trying it one year.

That's been my assumption as well. Once the sample case & Biogenesis story came out, I remembered reading that Braun had trained with A-Rod sometimes in the off-season while Braun was still at Miami. Made me suspicious, since I've long thought A-Rod's arrival & studliness in MLB two years removed from high school smelled fishy, or PED-y. He's a guy I also believe used throughout his career, maybe not nonstop, but I definitely think he wasn't just using around 2013.