Why is Ryan Braun so hated?

[jerichoholicninja]

Wouldn't the prudent thing have been to just get another sample from Braun? It seems like it was an unusual situation and the sample would have been kept in less than ideal conditions, whether with the collector or FedEx. The result is probably the same for Braun either way but this would have removed the possibility of him getting off on technicalities and made everything a little more straight forward.

[KeithStone53151]

You don’t get fired if you did nothing wrong lol.

 

MLB fired the arbitrator (Shyam Das) that cast the deciding vote to overturn Braun's suspension.

 

I couldn't find anything about CDT firing Dino Laurenzi.

 

This is honestly far more bush league than anything Braun did. Fire an independent arbitrator because he didn't rule in your favor. If that isn't fascist I don't know what is...

[MrTPlush]

Wouldn't the prudent thing have been to just get another sample from Braun?

 

No way, I doubt MLB would want that. They likely need the samples from the days they demand at the times they demand. If the collector doesn't do so you would have to wonder if he got paid off by the player, which would be painfully easy to do. MLB didn't have a problem with how he handled it, he had done it that way many many times. Braun's lawyers found a loop hole essentially that MLB didn't predict ahead of time a player could use it as an out.

 

If MLB didn't want the samples handled that way they wouldn't have changed it after the fact to allow such handling to be acceptable in the future.

[KeithStone53151]

 

The sample collector did follow the protocol of the company he worked for. The lab analyzed the sample because the collection and handling of the sample followed industry accepted practices. The protocol "mistake" was due to MLB not confirming the wording in their written protocol versus the collection agency's protocol, which was MLB's responsibility. MLB admitted fault in regards to this issue.

 

Also, the leak did not come from Major League Baseball. One of Braun's team of "experts/lawyers" was asking various people in the industry about the process and possible errors/loopholes, and one of the people that had been consulted was the one who spilled the beans.

 

All of this was well documented when it happened and it's astonishing that so many Brewer fans either never heard about it or just chose to ignore it. Dino Laurenzi was 100% innocent in this. The company he worked for was 100% innocent in this. The lab that tested the sample was 100% innocent in this. MLB was guilty in regards to the protocol deviation. A "consultant" contacted by Braun's "team" was responsible for the leak to the press.

 

He did not send it out the day he should have, he did not store it properly, he waited longer than he should have to ship it on Monday. This guy blew it at every chance. That is why the arbitration was won.

 

This guy did blow it at every chance as noted and made a lot of general mistakes in how he handled not being able to ship the day he was supposed to.

[KeithStone53151]

Wouldn't the prudent thing have been to just get another sample from Braun?

 

No way, I doubt MLB would want that. They likely need the samples from the days they demand at the times they demand. If the collector doesn't do so you would have to wonder if he got paid off by the player, which would be painfully easy to do. MLB didn't have a problem with how he handled it, he had done it that way many many times. Braun's lawyers found a loop hole essentially that MLB didn't predict ahead of time a player could use it as an out.

 

If MLB didn't want the samples handled that way they wouldn't have changed it after the fact to allow such handling to be acceptable in the future.

 

I generally think the wrong thing is being argued. I have a couple Cub fan friends, and all of them have a problem with him holding the press conference as he did where he gloated about getting off the hook and supposedly threw Dino Laurenzi under the bus. This is their issue much moreso than the cheating. I try explaining that he was always going to have to make some sort of statement on the matter based on how much it played out in the media. He could never just remain silent, and he also wasn't going to come out and say "yeah I got off on a technicality. And he certainly wasn't bashing Dino during this press conference. So for the most part I think people hating on Braun is much more from ignorance and blindly following the media than anything.

[adambr2]

I don't disagree with the others that Dino didn't do his job properly, I just don't really understand how it relates to what Braun did. If I embezzle from my company and don't get caught because the company has shoddy security measures, then when I finally do get caught the police botch the investigation and all the evidence is inadmissable and I get off, I am no less of a sleazeball for what I did.

 

Unless it's just to say he should be no more or less hated than any other PED user. The most bothersome part to me is him signing a 9 figure contract under false pretences almost 5 years in advance, knowing his performance that led to that contract was artificially boosted. He's obviously not the first, I get that, but being a fan of a small market club, that's certainly the part I dislike him the most for.

[tmwiese55]

Wouldn't the prudent thing have been to just get another sample from Braun? It seems like it was an unusual situation and the sample would have been kept in less than ideal conditions, whether with the collector or FedEx. The result is probably the same for Braun either way but this would have removed the possibility of him getting off on technicalities and made everything a little more straight forward.

 

According to BRaun's camp they requested an immediate retest once he was informed and he passed it. Quick googling seems it was about 2 weeks after. I guess what you're saying though is they should've just tossed them all after it couldn't be shipped that night and tested them again the next available day.

[tmwiese55]

I don't disagree with the others that Dino didn't do his job properly, I just don't really understand how it relates to what Braun did. If I embezzle from my company and don't get caught because the company has shoddy security measures, then when I finally do get caught the police botch the investigation and all the evidence is inadmissable and I get off, I am no less of a sleazeball for what I did.

 

Unless it's just to say he should be no more or less hated than any other PED user. The most bothersome part to me is him signing a 9 figure contract under false pretences almost 5 years in advance, knowing his performance that led to that contract was artificially boosted. He's obviously not the first, I get that, but being a fan of a small market club, that's certainly the part I dislike him the most for.

 

You're right. This discussion only applies to the camp who say "I hate for him throwing the collector under the bus who did nothing wrong", which likely isn't correct. Someone in here made that type of comment which led to this. Doesn't change that Braun did the crime

[KeithStone53151]

I don't disagree with the others that Dino didn't do his job properly, I just don't really understand how it relates to what Braun did. If I embezzle from my company and don't get caught because the company has shoddy security measures, then when I finally do get caught the police botch the investigation and all the evidence is inadmissable and I get off, I am no less of a sleazeball for what I did.

 

Unless it's just to say he should be no more or less hated than any other PED user. The most bothersome part to me is him signing a 9 figure contract under false pretences almost 5 years in advance, knowing his performance that led to that contract was artificially boosted. He's obviously not the first, I get that, but being a fan of a small market club, that's certainly the part I dislike him the most for.

 

You're right. This discussion only applies to the camp who say "I hate for him throwing the collector under the bus who did nothing wrong", which likely isn't correct. Someone in here made that type of comment which led to this. Doesn't change that Braun did the crime

 

And that's the big difference between him and someone like Melky Cabrera or Johnny Peralta. But again, I completely disagree that he threw Dino under the bus...that's a media narrative that Cubs fans are running with because they as a whole are ignorant.

[jerichoholicninja]

Wouldn't the prudent thing have been to just get another sample from Braun? It seems like it was an unusual situation and the sample would have been kept in less than ideal conditions, whether with the collector or FedEx. The result is probably the same for Braun either way but this would have removed the possibility of him getting off on technicalities and made everything a little more straight forward.

 

According to BRaun's camp they requested an immediate retest once he was informed and he passed it. Quick googling seems it was about 2 weeks after. I guess what you're saying though is they should've just tossed them all after it couldn't be shipped that night and tested them again the next available day.

 

Ya, retest ASAP. To me what the collector did would be no different than if he tripped on his way to FedEx and dropped the samples and they broke and spilled all over the ground.

[tmwiese55]

Wasn't Melky Cabrera the one who had someone create a fake website for some kind of medication or something to try and cheat his way through the appeal? I wonder if he gets bood every AB

 

Found it: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/exclusive-daily-news-uncovers-bizarre-plot-melky-cabrera-fake-website-duck-drug-suspension-article-1.1139623

[MrTPlush]

Wasn't Melky Cabrera the one who had someone create a fake website for some kind of medication or something to try and cheat his way through the appeal? I wonder if he gets bood every AB

 

Found it: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/exclusive-daily-news-uncovers-bizarre-plot-melky-cabrera-fake-website-duck-drug-suspension-article-1.1139623

 

Haha yes and it was a hilarious attempt. Of course his whole appeal was done behind closed doors and since he got suspended no big deal was made of his fake website attempt. Braun's wasn't private and once it became public he decided to take the low road...then he won the appeal and once you are on that low road you are kinda stuck on it. Braun's mouth, it becoming public, and the fact he won his appeal was quite the equation for a huge train wreck.

 

It should have never been that way, but you get what you get.

[MrTPlush]

Wouldn't the prudent thing have been to just get another sample from Braun? It seems like it was an unusual situation and the sample would have been kept in less than ideal conditions, whether with the collector or FedEx. The result is probably the same for Braun either way but this would have removed the possibility of him getting off on technicalities and made everything a little more straight forward.

 

According to BRaun's camp they requested an immediate retest once he was informed and he passed it. Quick googling seems it was about 2 weeks after. I guess what you're saying though is they should've just tossed them all after it couldn't be shipped that night and tested them again the next available day.

 

Which is why the MLB wouldn't wanted to do a retest. Braun knew that test was going to be positive the second he did it. Part of making the program the best it can be is not doing something like this.

 

There has been zero scientific evidence anything the collector did would effect the testosterone levels. Comparing it to spilling it on the ground just doesn't seem true. His sample was fine, which we know because the sample made it to Montreal with it 20x levels or whatever it was. The fact he took over 10x the right dosage explains the stupidly high level. At the time people thought it had to be fake because it was so high, you'd have to be recklessly stupid to get a test that high...and well...Braun was.

[Warning Track Power]

Back on topic...

 

I love Braun. I didn't like the press conference then and hated it after he admitted wrongdoing. However, since his acceptance of his suspension, he has not done anything to command the spotlight and has been active in the community. Braun is vilified in the Brewers rival cities where Sosa, Bonds, McGwire, Marte, etc...were caught. I understand the rivalry aspect of it but don't understand the hate given his low profile since 2013.

[tmwiese55]

I think it was proven that these variations in temperature can change test results though. They either recreated or used an Olympic person who had recreated it as 'evidence'. Again, in this case it was BS so it doesn't matter but I think they scientifically proved handling of this nature can change results (though of course not every time, just that it's possible). One would think they've cleaned up this process greatly after this whole fiasco. I've spent too much time on this already so don't want to verify if this memory was correct or not, so I'm not gonna be too bold or anything. But I remember the crappy handling correctly, so at least a decent chance I'm right, as long as it wasn't BS to begin with

 

Parks and Rec joke that popped in my head after reading the 'low road' line. From Aziz, "I always tell people to take the high road. Then there's more room for me on the low road"

[pacopete4]

Back on topic...

 

I love Braun. I didn't like the press conference then and hated it after he admitted wrongdoing. However, since his acceptance of his suspension, he has not done anything to command the spotlight and has been active in the community. Braun is vilified in the Brewers rival cities where Sosa, Bonds, McGwire, Marte, etc...were caught. I understand the rivalry aspect of it but don't understand the hate given his low profile since 2013.

 

 

This. Exactly this on top of I love a good redemption story. People mess up. We are all humans. Braun was an individual who was so insecure with himself and that is sad considering he was one of the best baseball players on the planet at the time. He messed up, he's paid his dues and he has done everything in his power to be a good teammate and citizen in the MKE area. What else could he be doing?

[MrTPlush]

Parks and Rec joke that popped in my head after reading the 'low road' line. From Aziz, "I always tell people to take the high road. Then there's more room for me on the low road"

 

[adambr2]

Back on topic...

 

I love Braun. I didn't like the press conference then and hated it after he admitted wrongdoing. However, since his acceptance of his suspension, he has not done anything to command the spotlight and has been active in the community. Braun is vilified in the Brewers rival cities where Sosa, Bonds, McGwire, Marte, etc...were caught. I understand the rivalry aspect of it but don't understand the hate given his low profile since 2013.

 

 

This. Exactly this on top of I love a good redemption story. People mess up. We are all humans. Braun was an individual who was so insecure with himself and that is sad considering he was one of the best baseball players on the planet at the time. He messed up, he's paid his dues and he has done everything in his power to be a good teammate and citizen in the MKE area. What else could he be doing?

 

To me there is an enormous difference between making a one off mistake, a guy makes a bad choice on one particular night and takes something he shouldn't, and a guy who is just a shady individual who says all the right things but won't hesitate to get away with anything he can. I think Braun is clearly in the latter category.

 

Do you believe that if Braun were able to go back to the beginning of his career, he would say, "I'm not going to do that again." ?

 

I don't believe that for a second. I believe he would say, "I'm going to do it again, but I'm going to be a lot more careful this time."

[pacopete4]

Back on topic...

 

I love Braun. I didn't like the press conference then and hated it after he admitted wrongdoing. However, since his acceptance of his suspension, he has not done anything to command the spotlight and has been active in the community. Braun is vilified in the Brewers rival cities where Sosa, Bonds, McGwire, Marte, etc...were caught. I understand the rivalry aspect of it but don't understand the hate given his low profile since 2013.

 

 

This. Exactly this on top of I love a good redemption story. People mess up. We are all humans. Braun was an individual who was so insecure with himself and that is sad considering he was one of the best baseball players on the planet at the time. He messed up, he's paid his dues and he has done everything in his power to be a good teammate and citizen in the MKE area. What else could he be doing?

 

To me there is an enormous difference between making a one off mistake, a guy makes a bad choice on one particular night and takes something he shouldn't, and a guy who is just a shady individual who says all the right things but won't hesitate to get away with anything he can. I think Braun is clearly in the latter category.

 

Do you believe that if Braun were able to go back to the beginning of his career, he would say, "I'm not going to do that again." ?

 

I don't believe that for a second. I believe he would say, "I'm going to do it again, but I'm going to be a lot more careful this time."

 

I think if you were to ask him, he probably regrets what he did because of hurting those he cares about. And I'm talking about the lying when caught part.

 

Doing the steroids/HGH stuff, he might do again. Plenty of these guys might. Heck I might've in their situations. I don't think this makes you a bad person at all. When it sets your family up for generations, it is pretty hard to not do the things they are doing to achieve it.

[tmwiese55]

Another thing that popped in my head off the last couple posts. Say in theory he had been involved in this in some capacity since Miami, seems like a good chance but who knows. Anway, that would've started in the 03-5ish timeframe which was still pretty much prime "everyone's doing it" type mode of the steroid area. That's not an excuse or anything but when looking back at in hindsight would he have done it again type scenarios it seems relevant. Basically, in spite of it not surfacing until 2012/13 well after the boom the whole decision/path could've been started in a totally different landscape. Still, in his spot I think I probably quit as soon as I sign that extension since I'm set for life and don't need another contract so why risk it and ruin my name. But that's easier said than done if you've been getting away with it for years.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Is this a trick question?

 

Is this a trick username?

 

I'm surprised this thread went on for another 2 pages without anyone else acknowledging that the site's founder just posted for the first time in over 2 years.

[Warning Track Power]

To me there is an enormous difference between making a one off mistake, a guy makes a bad choice on one particular night and takes something he shouldn't, and a guy who is just a shady individual who says all the right things but won't hesitate to get away with anything he can. I think Braun is clearly in the latter category.

 

Do you believe that if Braun were able to go back to the beginning of his career, he would say, "I'm not going to do that again." ?

 

I don't believe that for a second. I believe he would say, "I'm going to do it again, but I'm going to be a lot more careful this time."

This entire post makes assumptions about Braun's nature and who he is as a person. What has he done in the past 5 years (since he accepted his suspension) makes you believe this? Unless you know Braun personally or know someone who does, I don't think you can make this assertion based on anything other than opinion.

[MrTPlush]

Still, in his spot I think I probably quit as soon as I sign that extension since I'm set for life and don't need another contract so why risk it and ruin my name.

 

Part of me wonders if Braun signed his super friendly deals partly as insurance, not against injury/decline, but against getting caught doing steroids. It sounds like these guys doing steroids end up being self conscious about everything related to it and their ability. If he got caught not only does that hurt his value, but his confidence too if he has to stop the steroids.

 

It is a bit interesting he was so quick to sign a big contract right away and again years later.

 

Oh what I would do to be a fly on the wall to these players doing steroid and the ones that get caught. Such a shady hidden spot in the sport.

[Ennder]

The intercostal issue was never going to go away so I'm sure he signed it for health reasons more than anything else.

[adambr2]

To me there is an enormous difference between making a one off mistake, a guy makes a bad choice on one particular night and takes something he shouldn't, and a guy who is just a shady individual who says all the right things but won't hesitate to get away with anything he can. I think Braun is clearly in the latter category.

 

Do you believe that if Braun were able to go back to the beginning of his career, he would say, "I'm not going to do that again." ?

 

I don't believe that for a second. I believe he would say, "I'm going to do it again, but I'm going to be a lot more careful this time."

This entire post makes assumptions about Braun's nature and who he is as a person. What has he done in the past 5 years (since he accepted his suspension) makes you believe this? Unless you know Braun personally or know someone who does, I don't think you can make this assertion based on anything other than opinion.

 

I'm fairly certain that all of us are making assumptions about Braun's nature and who he is as a person. He accepted his suspension because he was left with no choice, and I make my assumptions on what I believe he was up to since his Miami days.

 

You're free to believe what you want as well, but I will say that pulling off a good guy act for the sake of appearance is not a difficult thing to do. Sammy Sosa managed to pull it off for years, all the while he was roiding and on at least one occasion, bat corking.