Wisconsin Basketball Thread 2018 - 19

[FVBrewerFan]

I was really thrilled with Happ's first year, especially after he was able to watch Kaminsky become a dominant college player while Happ was a redshirt. I really thought that maybe the time between his freshman and sophomore year he would work on an outside shot. And I kept waiting and waiting and waiting. Ugh.

 

To be so good underneath the hoop and be absolutely NOTHING outside of the paint was just terrible. He became one-dimensional and, to me, a disappointment as a basketball player. Was he good? Yes, absolutely! But He didn't even TRY to round out his game a little bit more.

 

That's true, in fact who has really gotten better under Gard? Add that to his recruiting, and it's just not working. Reminds me of the whole TT/MM saga with the Packers. I can see that it's time for a change, but they keep adding more wasted years. That's how I feel with Gard. If this was Nebraska basketball or something, sure give him more time. But the Badgers established quite a program/ reputation and there's no reason they shouldn't be competing with Mich/ MSU every year.

[tmwiese55]

I generally agree. But this year they were 4th, one game behind Mich and 2 behind MSU. And they beat Mich once so I would say this was competing with them. At least one of the MSU games was down to the wire and they took MSU to the wire in the B1G tourney last year (not so well this year). I'm starting to get a bit skeptical on Gard too but if you think rationally and take away the two freak FF years, this season was basically the same as the vast majority of Bo's years.

 

That said, I'm not seeing the player/skill/shooting development looking as strong and of course recruiting still isn't good. But we have to remember recruiting wasn't good under Bo either but their player/skill development was so good it didn't matter. Long story short, in game stuff and D I'd say Gard seems fine. First two years with BK/Nigel still there they went to Sweet 16s and got really unlucky both years to not go further. Then the crap injured year, then this year where pulled a classic Bo year of finishing with fourth while being way out talented. But we have to see some progression from those 3 key Sophs which is a part of coaching. In game is key but skill development is really important. Another thing to note is that Gard's job now is harder than Bo's was 12ish years ago in that the rest of the country has caught up to the stuff Bo was smarter than everyone else at combined with rule changes against our style (30 second clock as an example but just in general freedom of movement rules).

[FVBrewerFan]

That's all fair. I think the difference is Bo had a charisma to get the most out of his players. That helped in recruiting too, even though he usually wasn't the front man. The kids believed in him, liked him, and really wanted to win for him. I don't think Gard has that.

 

Wisconsin's style of playing was dying, Bo was able to make it work because he developed players and was able to put together the right group at the right time. But now may finally be the time to move on to a new coach with a new style of ball. Very hard to recruit kids that want to play slow-mo ball. Honestly, if Duke played that way all these one/done guys would have gone to Kentucky, UCLA, or anywhere else that allows them to showcase their skills.

[HiAndTight]

That's all fair. I think the difference is Bo had a charisma to get the most out of his players. That helped in recruiting too, even though he usually wasn't the front man. The kids believed in him, liked him, and really wanted to win for him. I don't think Gard has that.

 

Wisconsin's style of playing was dying, Bo was able to make it work because he developed players and was able to put together the right group at the right time. But now may finally be the time to move on to a new coach with a new style of ball. Very hard to recruit kids that want to play slow-mo ball. Honestly, if Duke played that way all these one/done guys would have gone to Kentucky, UCLA, or anywhere else that allows them to showcase their skills.

 

 

I think you're absolutely right. I was half hoping that UV would lose in the 1st round again so that maybe they'd fire Bennett and we could scoop him up.

 

I had no opinion of Gard when Bo stepped down. It seemed like Bo was going to forced Barry into keeping Gard. Wisconsin Basketball isn't exactly a hotbed of talent, and UW is a far-far tougher school to get into for athletes than most in the country. It does feel like we had that momentum of consistently churning out good teams, we always had a Kaminsky backing up a Leur who could step in as Soph, Jr and help lead the team(not quite a Kaminsky).

 

They were somewhat competitive this year because of Happ, but he had arguably the best career in UW history. I don't see him coming again and anyone watching this team had to know that they were very unlikely to make a run in the tourney. You need good, smart guard play and you've got to be able to hit your FT's and 3's especially in the tourney. Happ was none of those things...which is fine, he was still outstanding, but there just wasn't enough around him to make a run.

 

 

There were talks about Shaka Smart the last time when Bo was on his way out. Now 4 years into his tenure at UT and he's 2-2 in making the Tournament and there's some talk he may not be back. I doubt they fire him after this year, but I also doubt the Badgers fire Gard. Perhaps if the Badgers are as bad as they look like they could be next year and UT doesn't make it again, we might have a Madison native coaching both main sports!

[homer]

That's all fair. I think the difference is Bo had a charisma to get the most out of his players. That helped in recruiting too, even though he usually wasn't the front man. The kids believed in him, liked him, and really wanted to win for him. I don't think Gard has that.

 

Wisconsin's style of playing was dying, Bo was able to make it work because he developed players and was able to put together the right group at the right time. But now may finally be the time to move on to a new coach with a new style of ball. Very hard to recruit kids that want to play slow-mo ball. Honestly, if Duke played that way all these one/done guys would have gone to Kentucky, UCLA, or anywhere else that allows them to showcase their skills.

 

No offense but there was a 5 - 6 year stretch leading up to the back to back Final Fours where this exact same type of post would show up about Bo.

[HiAndTight]

That's all fair. I think the difference is Bo had a charisma to get the most out of his players. That helped in recruiting too, even though he usually wasn't the front man. The kids believed in him, liked him, and really wanted to win for him. I don't think Gard has that.

 

Wisconsin's style of playing was dying, Bo was able to make it work because he developed players and was able to put together the right group at the right time. But now may finally be the time to move on to a new coach with a new style of ball. Very hard to recruit kids that want to play slow-mo ball. Honestly, if Duke played that way all these one/done guys would have gone to Kentucky, UCLA, or anywhere else that allows them to showcase their skills.

 

No offense but there was a 5 - 6 year stretch leading up to the back to back Final Fours where this exact same type of post would show up about Bo.

 

 

In fairness, he does say it WAS dying, suggesting that even before Gard it was dying.

 

I don't really believe that's the case. We're never going to get the type of athletes the big schools get, just like football. Even Tyler Herro, a kid from Whitnall opted to go to Kentucky(and is now a projected lottery pick).

 

But the key then is recruiting kids who play your style better. Maybe we're just hitting a little bit of a lull that we'd have hit regardless. But the NCAA streak has come to an end, the top 4 fnish in the B10 has come to an end and it just doesn't look like the same type of team on the court.

[FVBrewerFan]

That's all fair. I think the difference is Bo had a charisma to get the most out of his players. That helped in recruiting too, even though he usually wasn't the front man. The kids believed in him, liked him, and really wanted to win for him. I don't think Gard has that.

 

Wisconsin's style of playing was dying, Bo was able to make it work because he developed players and was able to put together the right group at the right time. But now may finally be the time to move on to a new coach with a new style of ball. Very hard to recruit kids that want to play slow-mo ball. Honestly, if Duke played that way all these one/done guys would have gone to Kentucky, UCLA, or anywhere else that allows them to showcase their skills.

 

No offense but there was a 5 - 6 year stretch leading up to the back to back Final Fours where this exact same type of post would show up about Bo.

 

I was one of them. Eventually worked out for Bo, but even in hindsight I would be fine if they moved on with new coach/ new style. History may have tured out the same way, who knows.

 

What if the Hausers went to UW? In state get that Gard lost. I think they would have turned into better defensive players and obviously help with scoring. You cant win them all, but King is all Gard has won.

[young guns]

Strickland is transferring.

[brooks_quichenick]

Strickland is transferring.

 

This is a crushing loss for UW.

 

I don't want to jump ship on Gard right now, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think his hold on the job gets a little weaker with this transfer. Strickland probably should've earned a few more minutes this season with how terrible the guard play was overall.

[RollieTime]

Gard has now had 4 players transfer from Wisconsin the last 3 years... Seems like quite a high volume of transfers. I wonder if there really is something going on behind the scenes and players just don’t want to play for him.

[OnTheBlack]

Gard has now had 4 players transfer from Wisconsin the last 3 years... Seems like quite a high volume of transfers. I wonder if there really is something going on behind the scenes and players just don’t want to play for him.

 

 

Not to mention losing out on both Hauser brothers and Herro(who looks like first rounder if he declares now).

 

Hard to blame him for either individually. One brother decides to go to Marquette, the other will. Herro has a chance to go to a Basketball factory and play right away...again, tough to blame him. But perhaps a more up tempo style of play would be more enticing...

 

UW BB looks like it's entering a sustained period of mediocrity.

[OnTheBlack]

Gard has now had 4 players transfer from Wisconsin the last 3 years... Seems like quite a high volume of transfers. I wonder if there really is something going on behind the scenes and players just don’t want to play for him.

 

I don't follow the transfers that closely after they leave. Could you refresh my memory?

[MrTPlush]

I’m not Wisconsin basketball expert, but Wisconsin just seems to focus on defense over offense. At least in the few years I have marginally watched them. I suppose that may just be because everyone sucks at scoring and their recruiting has been terrible in recent years...but I feel they aren’t a fast tempo team regardless.

 

Higher up recruits (especially elite ones) want fast tempo offenses that allow them to light up the stat sheet. Wisconsin wanting to win with 55 points a game isn’t really giving that opportunity.

 

That really isn’t an excuse though. Many teams get successful guys who aren’t top recruits. It doesn’t help since Dekker Wisconsin has not landed any major WI recruit since. They have all gone to Marquette.

[Baldkin]

Gard has now had 4 players transfer from Wisconsin the last 3 years... Seems like quite a high volume of transfers. I wonder if there really is something going on behind the scenes and players just don’t want to play for him.

 

 

Not to mention losing out on both Hauser brothers and Herro(who looks like first rounder if he declares now).

 

Hard to blame him for either individually. One brother decides to go to Marquette, the other will. Herro has a chance to go to a Basketball factory and play right away...again, tough to blame him. But perhaps a more up tempo style of play would be more enticing...

 

UW BB looks like it's entering a sustained period of mediocrity.

 

They had 3 upper classmen contribute this season and finished 4th in the Big10 and were a 5 seed in the tournament.

[tmwiese55]

Strickland was a stretch to be at a high major program to begin with, he was not a big time recruit by any means and frankly looked terrible when he played. All he had is athleticism and a good name. Sure he could develop and turn into something but to indict Gard on him just seems wrong, the chances of him every contributing were slim, that's why he left. They have all the Gs back who played above him this year for the next two years then a legit recruit coming in after. Strickland saw the writing on the wall, he was barely going to play the next two years and bailed. That's it. It never made sense to me that Strickland didn't redshirt, this explains why. So he could save the redshirt to transfer.

 

You also can't really blame Gard for the Hausers. Bo effed that all up. They needed a PG in the older ones class and Bo had previously wasted spots on Dearing and Hill so they didn't have another spot. Gard pushed to take Hauser anyway as he thought he was legit, Bo thought he was mid major only worthy so still prioritized PG instead of him. And of course that cost them the younger one too. Though I would blame Gard for not seeing the writing on the wall and putting all his effort into Joey and being left with nothing as a backup.

 

Herro, he had him committed and the kid screwed him. So he did what he could, under Bo that kid would have never even looked at UW. Moreover, it seems fairly overwhelming out there that he didn't have the ACT to get into UW and didn't want to bother taking the test again for UW when he could just go to Kentucky instead. Maybe he'd have gone to Kentucky regardless for obvious reasons, but again what can Gard do about the NBA factory beating down his door.

[RollieTime]

Gard has now had 4 players transfer from Wisconsin the last 3 years... Seems like quite a high volume of transfers. I wonder if there really is something going on behind the scenes and players just don’t want to play for him.

 

I don't follow the transfers that closely after they leave. Could you refresh my memory?

 

The 4 guys that have left the program in the last 3 years are Jordan Hill, Andy Van Vliet, Alex Illikainen, and now Tai Strickland.

[bjkrautk]

You also can't really blame Gard for the Hausers. Bo effed that all up. They needed a PG in the older ones class and Bo had previously wasted spots on Dearing and Hill so they didn't have another spot. Gard pushed to take Hauser anyway as he thought he was legit, Bo thought he was mid major only worthy so still prioritized PG instead of him. And of course that cost them the younger one too. Though I would blame Gard for not seeing the writing on the wall and putting all his effort into Joey and being left with nothing as a backup.

 

IMO, you can't have it both ways. If Gard was the point man for recruiting under Bo, then he has to bear some responsibility for the stagnant PG recruiting that would lead to prioritizing D'Mitrik Trice over Sam Hauser (while leaving out that the 2016 recruiting class also did include a forward in Aleem Ford).

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

My take here is the Badgers had a good year. They ran into a hot team in the tournament. Gard has three NCAA tourney appearances and two Sweet 16s. Most major conference schools would love that resume.

 

Next year is really the first all-Gard year. I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar record and overall performance. The Badgers strength has been their consistency. I would rather have Gard than endure a rebuild, and I think Kaminsky's massive breakout and Dekker's all-around skills spoiled us a bit.

[tmwiese55]

You also can't really blame Gard for the Hausers. Bo effed that all up. They needed a PG in the older ones class and Bo had previously wasted spots on Dearing and Hill so they didn't have another spot. Gard pushed to take Hauser anyway as he thought he was legit, Bo thought he was mid major only worthy so still prioritized PG instead of him. And of course that cost them the younger one too. Though I would blame Gard for not seeing the writing on the wall and putting all his effort into Joey and being left with nothing as a backup.

 

IMO, you can't have it both ways. If Gard was the point man for recruiting under Bo, then he has to bear some responsibility for the stagnant PG recruiting that would lead to prioritizing D'Mitrik Trice over Sam Hauser (while leaving out that the 2016 recruiting class also did include a forward in Aleem Ford).

 

This is just you know not following it. The reason they got Ford in that class is because Dearing transferred at the semester break, freeing up a spot. So they scrounged the prep schools and found someone. At that point Hauser was committed, too late. If UW was a shady school they'd have pushed Dearing out way earlier to free up a spot.

 

For PG. It was the transition to Bo/Gard at the time and they didn't hire Gard until the end of the season basically. So how can Gard get a PG to commit to him when he's not even sure if he's the coach? By the time he got the job all he had left was prep school scraps, which was Trice. Throughout the process they likely would've had Pritchard at Oregon if Barry had just given Gard the job right away. Maybe Bohannon but there was a couple others above him like Pritchard they were sitting very well with. But No, they didn't prioritize Trice over Hauser. Trice/Ford were scraps at the end. That year was ruined by Bo's transition and Gard not getting the job.

 

Again, according to the 'insiders' on this, if Gard was in charge the whole time it's almost 100% Sam Hauser is at UW and obviously the bro would've came too.

[LouisEly]

Gard has now had 4 players transfer from Wisconsin the last 3 years... Seems like quite a high volume of transfers. I wonder if there really is something going on behind the scenes and players just don’t want to play for him.

Most big-time programs have one guy every year who transfers out because he's buried in the depth chart. Four in three years isn't that big of a deal, and the players they lost are not anything special.

[homer]

Strickland is transferring.

 

This is a crushing loss for UW.

 

I mean it's not great but crushing? I don't think so.

[LouisEly]

It was the transition to Bo/Gard at the time and they didn't hire Gard until the end of the season basically. So how can Gard get a PG to commit to him when he's not even sure if he's the coach? By the time he got the job all he had left was prep school scraps, which was Trice. Throughout the process they likely would've had Pritchard at Oregon if Barry had just given Gard the job right away. Maybe Bohannon but there was a couple others above him like Pritchard they were sitting very well with. But No, they didn't prioritize Trice over Hauser. Trice/Ford were scraps at the end. That year was ruined by Bo's transition and Gard not getting the job.

 

Again, according to the 'insiders' on this, if Gard was in charge the whole time it's almost 100% Sam Hauser is at UW and obviously the bro would've came too.

The head coaches at UW are state employees, and by law all WI state jobs must be publicly posted for a specified period of time before they can fill them. There is a process that must be followed, and that process would not have allowed them to fill the position with basically anyone but Gard during the season, which is why Bo retired in-season - he wanted to force UW's hand in hiring Gard. UW was caught in a position where if they wanted to look at anyone other than Gard they had to wait until the season was over, which put the recruits in limbo. With UW coming off of consecutive Final Fours, there was thought that if they waited they might be able to get one of the best ones available. No coach is going to leave his team mid-season, so they chose to wait.

 

Even if Barry wanted to give the job to Gard they had to wait until the public posting period was over and follow state hiring protocol, which would have taken them through a significant chunk of the season. They still had a very good team (Sweet 16, should have been Elite 8 if not for a complete meltdown the last two minutes against ND). If they posted the job in-season, they would have been forced to interview other candidates as well and it would have been a distraction to the team. So it was either put the recruits in limbo or be a distraction to the team, and they put the team first.

[tmwiese55]

That's true but it's semantics. They could post the position, leave it up for two weeks as a formality and let random jabronis apply to it. This is what happens with every assistant football position, there isn't a truly open public application. If Barry would've said right away it was Gard's job that would've been it. Plus, the req is only like two weeks or 10 days. Post it the day Bo leaves, hire Gard officially two weeks later. Done, no drama. Barry didn't like his hand being forced though and apparently he wasn't totally sold on Gard. But then Gard turned that team around (remember it started horrible and shouldn't have made the tourney) and Barry had no choice. I think they announced it sometime in early March or late in the season.

[homer]

If I recall correctly Bo resigned after the infamous "meeting at the hotel" with his wife and some UW legal types. I think his wife said "retire now or I'm outta here".

[OnTheBlack]

Gard has now had 4 players transfer from Wisconsin the last 3 years... Seems like quite a high volume of transfers. I wonder if there really is something going on behind the scenes and players just don’t want to play for him.

 

 

Not to mention losing out on both Hauser brothers and Herro(who looks like first rounder if he declares now).

 

Hard to blame him for either individually. One brother decides to go to Marquette, the other will. Herro has a chance to go to a Basketball factory and play right away...again, tough to blame him. But perhaps a more up tempo style of play would be more enticing...

 

UW BB looks like it's entering a sustained period of mediocrity.

 

They had 3 upper classmen contribute this season and finished 4th in the Big10 and were a 5 seed in the tournament.

 

 

And this was "the year," they were going to be good for the foreseeable future.

 

Plus, I don't believe anyone was confident in this team going into the tourney. The teams that tend to thrive in the tournament are the teams that can get hot, shoot it from 3 and shoot free throws to close out games. And usually their best player can either do those two things, or they have a really good supporting cast.

 

Does that in any way sound like UW?

 

This is also the last year of Happ, the player some have argued is the best player in UW history. I assume those saying that are suggesting as much simply mean he had the best overall career. He certainly wasn't as good as even Kaminsky was just a few years ago and this just may be my age, but Finley also seemed like he was a better player. I don't particularly care either way, but the point is, this was the year they looked to be good and then it looked like they would struggle the following years. And they were blown out in the first round.

 

 

None of this to say you're wrong, and I'll be the first to say that every other year you wondered how the Badgers BB team was going to be able to finish in the top 4 of the B10 again and they managed to, so it's possible without Happ, you'll see Gard play a little differently and the same will be true. It just doesn't feel like the same and I would say the NIT seems more likely.