Wisconsin Basketball Thread 2018 - 19

[homer]

PG, Tai Strickland (Rod's son) verbally commits. This completes the 2018 class.

[homer]

I wonder if that Finke kid would give UW a look? Grad transfer from Illinois 6'10". I think they offered him back when he was in high school.

[pacopete4]

I wonder if that Finke kid would give UW a look? Grad transfer from Illinois 6'10". I think they offered him back when he was in high school.

I think this guy has defense and rebounding issues.

[JohnBriggs12]

I wonder if that Finke kid would give UW a look? Grad transfer from Illinois 6'10". I think they offered him back when he was in high school.

I think this guy has defense and rebounding issues.

 

If Happ declared for the draft, he'd be at least a usable rotation option but that doesn't seem likely. He will likely go to where he gets more minutes.

[pacopete4]

Boy, maybe I'm way off on Happ but he just doesn't scream NBA player to me. He's a great college basketball player and he'll probably bounce around the G league or whatever it's called now for awhile but at some point, don't you have to be able to shoot the basketball?

[brwrsfan]

Happ isn't going anywhere. He's doing the 1000% right thing here. He can get advice from NBA scouts and talent evaluators on where he'd be picked and what he needs to improve upon for next year. I believe Nigel Hayes did the same thing. He'll go through the process, see what they say and then almost certainly return to school as I see virtually zero chance he gets a first round grade.

[MrTPlush]

He won’t get a 2nd round grade let alone a 1st.

[tmwiese55]

He'll be measured at about 6'7.5 on the first day and that'll do it for him going pro this year. They'll tell him to fix his shot. Everything he already knows. Still there's no reason for him to not go through it and gain the experience and better prepare himself for next year.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Looking forward to Badger hoops (and all hoops, really!) starting up again. I think the Badgers will be improved. We will see how much. Get an early test at Xavier in a few weeks.

[MrTPlush]

Can’t believe basketball is around the corner! Noticed Wisconsin is actually predicted to return to the tourney. Good luck to them and their fans this year.

 

The whole scandal right now is really killing my basketball mood though.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Yeah, the trial is showing some of the ugly practices that have long been part of the sport. So far, UW and Marquette have stayed out of the fray, which is nice (especially since Creighton's caught up in it, and you have to consider them at the same level as MU), but it's hard to feel confident about anyone's integrity at this point.

 

My only hope is that this kind of exposure will help create a system that isn't dominated by shady dealings and shoe companies. Whether that means enforcing the rules more strongly and uniformly or re-evaluating the amateurism model or something else, I'm open to pretty much anything that doesn't let bribery run rampant.

[MrTPlush]

Yah there are smaller programs getting caught in it too. Sure they can and have tracked the Adidas case to know a lot about that, but there are even boosters throwing their wallets at these kids (or their guardians). There was a Maryland booster that paid the guardian of Silvio De Sousa $60k(!) to go to Maryland...not even that great of a school and De Sousa isn't a huge prospect in the grand scheme. If you have that much money thrown around at a not great school by someone not looking for a financial gain there has to be way more than I want to know. The sad thing is the kids probably aren't even getting the money a lot of the time. I bet their parents/guardians just pocket it under the table...unknowingly to the kid.

 

I think the problem has really gotten out of hand when it isn't even the colleges trying to pay these kids, we got shoe companies and boosters tossing the money out there.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I really wonder if the Olympic model isn't the best solution to all this. I would hesitate to pay the athletes, simply because that's going to negatively impact non-revenue and women's sports in a way that I think would be unfair. Plenty of people will disagree, and that's fine, but I just think letting athletes sell their image/brand is a kind of no harm solution here. After all, wouldn't Adidas rather cut out the middle man and just pay a kid to endorse Adidas directly instead of paying him to go to an Adidas school?

 

The problem seems to me that the coaches and programs wouldn't go for it. Seems like they see these endorsement deals as a cash cow for them, and they'd probably have to give that up if good players are endorsing competing brands. I don't think "Adidas schools" or "Nike schools" would be a thing if players could put their endorsements for sale on the open market. Because what if two guys going to Kentucky sign deals with different shoe companies?

 

The whole model seems designed to give coaches and ADs negotiating power rather than the actual athletes, and I think a lot of these guys (Cal, Self, Coach K, etc.) love being in complete control of these kids while also being able to play dumb if the poop hits the fan.

 

At least the feds can hold people responsible, unlike the NCAA with its weird, loophole-y, generally toothless enforcement model.

[GAME05]

The NBA and the G League have started to talk about a plan to accept HS graduates with a $180,000 starting salary. If something like that goes through, I think that would benefit everyone. The one-and-done kids would have that opportunity to get paid right away. And fewer one-and-done kids in college would probably help the parity of the college game.

 

Where's the IRS in all of this? If the kids or their parents are taking big payouts to play, obviously they would have to declare that income, which would be an easy corruption red-flag. But since they aren't, isn't that tax evasion? If you could get a legal payout from the G League or otherwise face tax evasion problems by accepting and not reporting backer corruption, wouldn't that fix a lot of problems, too?

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

One of the weird things about the recent guilty verdicts is that two of the guys were found guilty of defrauding the universities (Kansas and Louisville). I don't have much sympathy for those three guys, but the idea that the universities were defrauded is pretty illogical. This happens A LOT and the universities benefit.

 

There is more to come for sure, and the NCAA may act too, but I don't know that it's enough to go after the sneaker companies. Until the coaches and schools are held accountable, I am not optimistic for change.

 

I really think the coaches, ADs, and university administrators are barriers to change as much as anyone else. The G League idea makes perfect sense, but for most of the top guys, it is probably still more worth it to build the brand associated with college hoops than take the money to play in the G League.

[MrTPlush]

They can’t go after the universities without proof the universities did something. In most of the evidence the shoe companies are trying to get those guys go to those colleges for their own gain.

 

The G-League thing is a nice story, but when you dig deep I question if high profile guys would really take that money. That money isn’t crap if it makes you a lower 1st rounder or or even worse a 2nd rounder. They need playing time and the ability to play inferior talent to showcase their abilities. They won’t get that same golden opportunity in the G-League. When you are a top 10 pick every spot is HUGE in the draft.

 

They won’t give that money to anyone, but mega talents and why would those mega talents opt for the G-League? You would have to be a freak athlete that is going to be drafted Top 5 no matter what happens.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

They can’t go after the universities without proof the universities did something. In most of the evidence the shoe companies are trying to get those guys go to those colleges for their own gain.

 

The G-League thing is a nice story, but when you dig deep I question if high profile guys would really take that money. That money isn’t crap if it makes you a lower 1st rounder or or even worse a 2nd rounder. They need playing time and the ability to play inferior talent to showcase their abilities. They won’t get that same golden opportunity in the G-League. When you are a top 10 pick every spot is HUGE in the draft.

 

They won’t give that money to anyone, but mega talents and why would those mega talents opt for the G-League? You would have to be a freak athlete that is going to be drafted Top 5 no matter what happens.

 

I agree on the G League.

 

You're right in terms of proof, but I don't think you can read Self's texts and not see him as basically asking Adidas to help him "get guys." Is that a smoking gun? Nope. But I don't think it's a big secret that the coaches and universities benefit from what is happening. Given the amount of money spent on those programs and what's at stake, I have a hard time believing these programs are in the dark about this, which would make them at least enablers and maybe even accomplices.

[bani1717]

From the start I wondered why this was even a legal issue as opposed to an NCAA compliance issue. I'm no legal expert but it seems like it has something to do with the agreement that Adidas has with the schools (i.e., coaxing a now-ineligible player to go to a school where they'll support their brand - thus since the player is ineligible the school loses while Adidas wins financially).

 

I wonder if you'd have the same legal result if Big Donor Joe paid the next superstar HS kid $50,000 to go to his alma mater (where Big Donor Joe reaps no financial benefit and has no financial arrangement with the school other than being a donor).

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Well, our first real look at the Badgers comes Tuesday. Xavier (and the BE as a conference--Marquette and Nova and maybe Saint John's excepted) should be a bit down this year, so I think this is a nice chance to pick up a road win. A loss would likely mean tamping down some of the "much-imprroved" talk, even though the Cintas is a tough place to play.

 

Didn't see the Coppin State game, but that's about what should happen against a MEAC school. Other than Savannah State, that should be the easiest W on the schedule.

[Mr Southpaw]

Looked pretty good against Xavier. Free throw shooting still is a concern.

[pacopete4]

Need some bench guys to get going but this was a fun Badger win.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Yeah, a really nice win. At some point King or Reuvers are going to have to score, but the former is still figuring out this level, I think.

 

Trice and Davison will be a really nice backcourt. Pritzl seems like a guy that just won't materialize, but maybe I'll be wrong.

[bjkrautk]

Pritzl is his usual level of frustratingly inconsistent...but it's nice to have the variety of options in the backcourt the Badgers missed last season. Trice, King, and a hopefully healthy Davison (though I just expect that shoulder to pop out of alignment at some point in the season, based on last year's injury and how hard the guy plays) means there will be shooters available to knock down shots when Happ has to dish the ball out. Hopefully Ford comes back healthy at some point this season as well, since he showed positive signs as a Freshman.

 

Looking forward to a bounce-back season.

[pacopete4]

They look like a top 4 team in the B10. I say that without seeing many of the other teams but the level of the starters looks like they'll be in the mix up top. Which would mean we would be back in the NCAA tourney, which would be a great thing.

[FVBrewerFan]

I watched off and on, surprised how mediocre King looks. (Trying to be positive, he actually looked horrible.) But in basketball, you can go a long way with 3 really good players and the Badgers have that at least. They really need one more guy to step up and be a solid contributor. Most of all, they are sunk in any game where Happ gets into foul trouble and has to sit.

 

It was fun watching them though, almost like a mini-Bucks offensive set. Spread the court so Happ has room to work, and shooters knocking down 3s. Happ is a really tough one-on-one match-up, he has some moves in the post I haven't seen since the 70s I think.