Brewers made 1 year offer to Cobb

[RobDeer 45]

Just curious why some think that because Cain and Yelich were acquired, that we had to make a pitching move. Can't we improve our team in other areas besides pitching? Yes we could use an upgrade at pitching, but that doesn't mean blindly spend money on one, just to get a small boost.

 

I think DS saw good deals for people he thought would preform well and help our team. Those moves also give him more flexibility with trade pieces.

 

This is just a guess, but I don't see Stearns signing too many aging pitchers for multiple years. I think we need to change our mindset. He's not going to overreact because we had a good year last year. He has a plan on a way to build a team and it's going to take a few years. Just because one move is made, doesn't mean another needs to happen right away. Patience.

 

I think a small market team is better off bringing up pitchers and hoping some stick. Then when the time comes, make a trade for controllable pitching talent in their prime. Getting players like Cain and Yelich affords DS to package more controllable talent to other teams. That's what everyone wants now. So you find a team with a need in the OF and get a few pitchers from them. Prospects make the world go round right now. Keep acquiring that currency and use it to trade for needs.

 

If and when we get to a point where we are one or two players away from being a favorite to make the playoffs, I think the checkbook will be open. But right now we aren't that team. I'm sure if Stearns really wanted one of these pitchers, he could have gotten the ok to pay for them. I don't think the Cain contract had anything to do with us not getting a pitcher. I think Stearns just isn't willing to overpay and over extend on a contract for someone that's not worth it.

[coolhandluke121]

Just curious why some think that because Cain and Yelich were acquired, that we had to make a pitching move. Can't we improve our team in other areas besides pitching? Yes we could use an upgrade at pitching, but that doesn't mean blindly spend money on one, just to get a small boost.

 

I think DS saw good deals for people he thought would preform well and help our team. Those moves also give him more flexibility with trade pieces.

 

This is just a guess, but I don't see Stearns signing too many aging pitchers for multiple years. I think we need to change our mindset. He's not going to overreact because we had a good year last year. He has a plan on a way to build a team and it's going to take a few years. Just because one move is made, doesn't mean another needs to happen right away. Patience.

 

I think a small market team is better off bringing up pitchers and hoping some stick. Then when the time comes, make a trade for controllable pitching talent in their prime. Getting players like Cain and Yelich affords DS to package more controllable talent to other teams. That's what everyone wants now. So you find a team with a need in the OF and get a few pitchers from them. Prospects make the world go round right now. Keep acquiring that currency and use it to trade for needs.

 

If and when we get to a point where we are one or two players away from being a favorite to make the playoffs, I think the checkbook will be open. But right now we aren't that team. I'm sure if Stearns really wanted one of these pitchers, he could have gotten the ok to pay for them. I don't think the Cain contract had anything to do with us not getting a pitcher. I think Stearns just isn't willing to overpay and over extend on a contract for someone that's not worth it.

 

Great post. I think it's narrow-minded to say they have to make questionable "win now" moves just because they acquired Yelich and Cain. Team-building is an ongoing process. Needs change constantly. Injuries happen. Guys emerge while others decline. Just keep getting good players on good values and let it work itself out. Most importantly, develop your own young pitching, because acquiring it in free agency is desperation. It really doesn't even work for the richest teams, but for a team like the Brewers, it's a slow death.

 

The only thing I disagree with is not yet being one or two pieces away from the playoffs. I think the NL is absurdly mediocre after Washington, Chicago, and LAD. I think they have a great chance at a wild card without any more upgrades. So they preserved basically all their future assets except a 3rd-round pick (I consider Yelich a great future piece as well as a win-now piece), stayed fiscally responsible, and still are a solid wild card contender. I think that's a slam dunk off season.

[Brewer Fever]

The last 2 posts have both been great. Just glad to see some level-headed big picture thinking. Anything but a sky is falling because we didn't get Alex Cobb post.

[homer]

The last 2 posts have both been great. Just glad to see some level-headed big picture thinking. Anything but a sky is falling because we didn't get Alex Cobb post.

 

When one of your posts gets deleted it's probably not a good idea to come back with a watered down version of the same thing. Some people don't like the non move and that's ok. Not everyone is going to agree with every roster decision.

[Brewer Fever]

What board policy did I violate? Did I call anyone any names? And the post you just quoted was a compliment to the previous two posters. We're censoring compliments now?

 

So a guy makes around 100 posts unchecked about how terrible it is that we didn't sign Alex Cobb. I point out the absurdity of said poster admitting that Brewers brass knows more about him yet saying they're wrong anyway - AND that gets censored? Without name calling?

[RobDeer 45]

The only thing I disagree with is not yet being one or two pieces away from the playoffs. I think the NL is absurdly mediocre after Washington, Chicago, and LAD. I think they have a great chance at a wild card without any more upgrades. So they preserved basically all their future assets except a 3rd-round pick (I consider Yelich a great future piece as well as a win-now piece), stayed fiscally responsible, and still are a solid wild card contender. I think that's a slam dunk off season.

 

Thanks and I'm cool with your thoughts here. I do think we have a shot at making the playoffs, but also at being average this year, which I'm ok with. I was more referring to if we are in a position where we are favorites, that I could see us making a more aggressive move. At this point, I don't see the need for the type of move that has the potential to hurt our future. Slow and steady, keep doing what we're doing.

[pacopete4]

I think we need to change our mindset.

 

This. This is a great sentence in a great post. Sometimes what we see as a vision for this team is just not the vision of the front office and that is okay. Sometimes our own speculations get us way too far off track as fans. I am good with not overpaying aging pitchers as it rarely does much for that team. We got luck or whatever you want to call it a season ago with our starting pitching and now this year we will see how much of it was “luck” and how much of it was progression due to our pitching coach and our front office targeting pitchers they see themselves getting more out of.

[Warning Track Power]

I've felt for a while the most likely way the Brewers upgrade the starting rotation is through a trade, and not a free agent signing. While I would not have minded if they signed Cobb, I am not going to get stressed over them not getting him.

While this offseason was the one to go grab a FA pitcher, I agree with this. I imagine the Yelich trade will be the model for how the Brewers acquire high end talent in the future, meaning dealing high end prospects for controllable talent. This is why Fullmer, Archer or Stroman are ideal candidates for fan speculation as to the next big move.

[tmwiese55]

The positive thing I'm going to try to take away from the handling of pitching this offseason is that management must be fairly confident in guys like Woodruff, Burnes, Ortiz being legit quality starting pitchers in the coming years. I hope they're right, young cheap cost controlled pitching has always been our weakness and it is key for a small market to win over an extended period of time.

[homer]

What board policy did I violate? Did I call anyone any names? And the post you just quoted was a compliment to the previous two posters. We're censoring compliments now?

 

So a guy makes around 100 posts unchecked about how terrible it is that we didn't sign Alex Cobb. I point out the absurdity of said poster admitting that Brewers brass knows more about him yet saying they're wrong anyway - AND that gets censored? Without name calling?

 

You've been going back and forth with that guy for days now. Put him on ignore.

 

And for reference sake, here is the pertinent board rule and why your post was deleted:

Condescending talk toward other posters (including but not limited to name-calling, baiting and flaming) is not allowed. Other Brewers-related message boards are more tolerant of "talking smack" to other users, and we suggest you go there if that's what you're about.

[Never Outhustled]

This definitely sucks for this year, but I guess now you hope Woodruff and Burnes can turn out. That gives you a nice and cheap rotation moving forward.

 

1. Nelson

2. Anderson

3. Davies

4. Woodruff

5. Burnes

 

Or their love for Suter is warranted and the rotation is good already this year, and in great shape going forward.

[82brewcrew82]

Just curious why some think that because Cain and Yelich were acquired, that we had to make a pitching move. Can't we improve our team in other areas besides pitching? Yes we could use an upgrade at pitching, but that doesn't mean blindly spend money on one, just to get a small boost.

 

I think DS saw good deals for people he thought would preform well and help our team. Those moves also give him more flexibility with trade pieces.

 

This is just a guess, but I don't see Stearns signing too many aging pitchers for multiple years. I think we need to change our mindset. He's not going to overreact because we had a good year last year. He has a plan on a way to build a team and it's going to take a few years. Just because one move is made, doesn't mean another needs to happen right away. Patience.

 

I think a small market team is better off bringing up pitchers and hoping some stick. Then when the time comes, make a trade for controllable pitching talent in their prime. Getting players like Cain and Yelich affords DS to package more controllable talent to other teams. That's what everyone wants now. So you find a team with a need in the OF and get a few pitchers from them. Prospects make the world go round right now. Keep acquiring that currency and use it to trade for needs.

 

If and when we get to a point where we are one or two players away from being a favorite to make the playoffs, I think the checkbook will be open. But right now we aren't that team. I'm sure if Stearns really wanted one of these pitchers, he could have gotten the ok to pay for them. I don't think the Cain contract had anything to do with us not getting a pitcher. I think Stearns just isn't willing to overpay and over extend on a contract for someone that's not worth it.

Great post even if I deeply disagree with some of your points. I think I'm right with you on the last paragraph. Just because you can see the flaws on this team doesn't mean you hate the team. Wade Miley doesn't have to be a rainbow colored unicorn.

[Brewer Fever]

What board policy did I violate? Did I call anyone any names? And the post you just quoted was a compliment to the previous two posters. We're censoring compliments now?

 

So a guy makes around 100 posts unchecked about how terrible it is that we didn't sign Alex Cobb. I point out the absurdity of said poster admitting that Brewers brass knows more about him yet saying they're wrong anyway - AND that gets censored? Without name calling?

 

You've been going back and forth with that guy for days now. Put him on ignore.

 

And for reference sake, here is the pertinent board rule and why your post was deleted:

Condescending talk toward other posters (including but not limited to name-calling, baiting and flaming) is not allowed. Other Brewers-related message boards are more tolerant of "talking smack" to other users, and we suggest you go there if that's what you're about.

 

I did not violate that rule in any way. Responded to via PM.

[homer]

We have differeing views on condescending. Will read your PM.

[TJseven7]

Where are we seeing this connection between Arrieta and MA? Feel like I missed something here. Or are we just speculating?

 

Reports we were never really in on Darvish after he signed... cobb 1 year offer, lynn landing for 1. I don't consider those trying, nor were they reported as such... yet its reported we tried for Arrieta. What that looks like, I don't know but it reads more serious than a lowballing hope offer like cobb yu.

 

The MA, "yeah I talk to Scott often" spiel from earlier this offseason and our likely target being his prestige client.

 

The 13 14 15 16 17 offer to cain to keep open our multi time mentioned offseason buying power, that we didn't use.

 

I'll call it a step better than speculation... there's certainly some smoke here.

[TJseven7]

Just curious why some think that because Cain and Yelich were acquired, that we had to make a pitching move. Can't we improve our team in other areas besides pitching? Yes we could use an upgrade at pitching, but that doesn't mean blindly spend money on one, just to get a small boost.

 

I think DS saw good deals for people he thought would preform well and help our team. Those moves also give him more flexibility with trade pieces.

 

This is just a guess, but I don't see Stearns signing too many aging pitchers for multiple years. I think we need to change our mindset. He's not going to overreact because we had a good year last year. He has a plan on a way to build a team and it's going to take a few years. Just because one move is made, doesn't mean another needs to happen right away. Patience.

 

I think a small market team is better off bringing up pitchers and hoping some stick. Then when the time comes, make a trade for controllable pitching talent in their prime. Getting players like Cain and Yelich affords DS to package more controllable talent to other teams. That's what everyone wants now. So you find a team with a need in the OF and get a few pitchers from them. Prospects make the world go round right now. Keep acquiring that currency and use it to trade for needs.

 

If and when we get to a point where we are one or two players away from being a favorite to make the playoffs, I think the checkbook will be open. But right now we aren't that team. I'm sure if Stearns really wanted one of these pitchers, he could have gotten the ok to pay for them. I don't think the Cain contract had anything to do with us not getting a pitcher. I think Stearns just isn't willing to overpay and over extend on a contract for someone that's not worth it.

 

Great post. I think it's narrow-minded to say they have to make questionable "win now" moves just because they acquired Yelich and Cain. Team-building is an ongoing process. Needs change constantly. Injuries happen. Guys emerge while others decline. Just keep getting good players on good values and let it work itself out. Most importantly, develop your own young pitching, because acquiring it in free agency is desperation. It really doesn't even work for the richest teams, but for a team like the Brewers, it's a slow death.

 

The only thing I disagree with is not yet being one or two pieces away from the playoffs. I think the NL is absurdly mediocre after Washington, Chicago, and LAD. I think they have a great chance at a wild card without any more upgrades. So they preserved basically all their future assets except a 3rd-round pick (I consider Yelich a great future piece as well as a win-now piece), stayed fiscally responsible, and still are a solid wild card contender. I think that's a slam dunk off season.

 

Not sure who's saying they have to make a win now move. 3 out of 4 of the big 4 went for deals I wouldn't have wanted. The 4th we offered him a deal I wouldn't have wanted. I absolutely see the value in adding cain and yelich, and if they wanted to call it an offseason with the long term minded adds thats fine.

 

So...don't pay cain 13 mil this year... pay him 17 mil this year. Not what happened.

They wanted to add. Their 1 looks to be Arrieta and that's a multi year aging arm too.

 

My complaint is that they wanted more... structured to get more... and were wildly over optimistic in thinking Arrieta (or one of these other dudes) would just fall in their lap. I'd prefer cain to cost 4 mil less in the next 4 years of our long term build.

[pacopete4]

Wanted to add, maybe. More likely they did it so they could add if price was right on any of the pitchers. Never happened so it is what it is now.

[MrTPlush]

This definitely sucks for this year, but I guess now you hope Woodruff and Burnes can turn out. That gives you a nice and cheap rotation moving forward.

 

1. Nelson

2. Anderson

3. Davies

4. Woodruff

5. Burnes

Yeah in an ideal world this works out, which would be great and I’m pulling for it. But with the general nature of pitchers and younger pitchers in Woodruff/Burnes and Davies (relatively) it’s almost a guarantee at least one of those guys above isn’t a real option a year from now (or at least an option that doesn’t give us the best chance to win) due to injury, regression or projection/development not met.

 

Well I can add even more names if I really wanted to. Like Chacin the guy who has an MLB contract next year.

 

Regardless it should be solid enough I doubt they target multi year guys with large contracts. Probably lesser guys like Chacin if need be.

[TJseven7]

Wanted to add, maybe. More likely they did it so they could add if price was right on any of the pitchers. Never happened so it is what it is now.

 

We've heard nothing about an offer to lynn... yu cobb we weren't even close.

 

Its like keeping a 20 in your wallet incase someone wants to sell you a corvette.

[pacopete4]

Wanted to add, maybe. More likely they did it so they could add if price was right on any of the pitchers. Never happened so it is what it is now.

 

We've heard nothing about an offer to lynn... yu cobb we weren't even close.

Might’ve not been interested in Lynn but only wanted to add for the right price and the right price only for the others. Once the offers became out of their price range and year range, that’s probably when Stearns realized that nothing more was going to come. I’m okay with that approach. They left themselves open for an add and it didn’t make sense numbers/years size. Oh well.

[TJseven7]

I doubt we needed to push cains salary to afford 12/1 on lynn assuming we even offered a match.

[pacopete4]

You may doubt it but it very well could be true.

[TJseven7]

Yeah and that stearns blurb really screams our budget is lower than we hope. We are essentially capped til 2021 if thats the case. :-/

 

Really thought 110 was realistic.

[jerichoholicninja]

Can't up the payroll because they blew their wad on some fancy concession stands. (blue?)

[pacopete4]

Can’t up their payroll because signing free agents pitchers is a crapshoot and the brewers are smart enough to realize that. Not blue.