Alex Cobb to the Orioles

[82brewcrew82]

To me it's just a bunch of people saying "I've heard of Cobb, Lynn, and Arrieta, but I've never really heard of Suter and Woodruff, so the Brewers better sign someone". That's more of an "on paper" move though. Those guys probably aren't worth the effort of getting upset about, at least not at the price they got. Other options will come along if the Brewers are still in it in July, and if they're not, then Cobb, Lynn, or Arrieta wouldn't have helped much anyway and would have been a waste of a pick.

With all due respect, that is garbage. Many folks on here have laid out their issues with Suter in particular. So much so that I don't even need to mention them and you know what they are. People are acting like there is an either/or choice between using the guys we have or bringing in some upper echelon talent. The smart play was to do both. It's not about building depth, it's about building quality depth. You are going to need quality depth if you really consider yourself a contender. I'd feel much better with Suter, Woodruff, Burnes as my 6th, 7th and 8th options. There isn't one team that is seriously considered a contender that has guys like Gallardo/Miley/Guerra/Suter fighting it out for the last two spots in their rotation.

[PF28]

I haven't gone through the entire thread so I apologize if I echo any thoughts already shared. From the front office's perspective, I feel they wanted to make sure they didn't overreact to the Jimmy Nelson injury. If we look at the team's progression to 2019, Nelson, Anderson, Davies, Chacin, Woodruff, Burnes, Peralta, and Ortiz would all appear to be viable candidates to battle for the five rotations spots. The goal obviously isn't to throw away 2018, but balance also must be found by not over-investing to help save face for 2018, either. Miley, Guerra, Suter, and Woodruff may not be the greatest collection of talent for two rotations spots, but they have all shown something in the past. If the season progresses and the team needs a top-of-the-rotation guy to compete, which Cobb is not, then they still have financial flexibility to add on any sort of player salary-wise.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

To me it's just a bunch of people saying "I've heard of Cobb, Lynn, and Arrieta, but I've never really heard of Suter and Woodruff, so the Brewers better sign someone". That's more of an "on paper" move though. Those guys probably aren't worth the effort of getting upset about, at least not at the price they got. Other options will come along if the Brewers are still in it in July, and if they're not, then Cobb, Lynn, or Arrieta wouldn't have helped much anyway and would have been a waste of a pick.

With all due respect, that is garbage. Many folks on here have laid out their issues with Suter in particular. So much so that I don't even need to mention them and you know what they are. People are acting like there is an either/or choice between using the guys we have or bringing in some upper echelon talent. The smart play was to do both. It's not about building depth, it's about building quality depth. You are going to need quality depth if you really consider yourself a contender. I'd feel much better with Suter, Woodruff, Burnes as my 6th, 7th and 8th options. There isn't one team that is seriously considered a contender that has guys like Gallardo/Miley/Guerra/Suter fighting it out for the last two spots in their rotation.

 

That's why this season is shaping up to be a mandate on Stearns. If these free agent pitchers go on to have big years, while the Brewers have a prolific offense but hover around .500 due in large part to faltering pitching, the second guessing will be deafening. As of now, I think the team is probably a Wild Card contender if they get solid, injury-free years out of Anderson and Davies, Chacin manages to hold his own, and they get a break-out performance from either Suter, Guerra or Woodruff. Is that possible? Sure. Probable? Likely not. If Anderson or Davies go down for any sort of extended absence, and Nelson can't quickly return to form around June, we may be in for a lot of 12-10 finals.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I haven't gone through the entire thread so I apologize if I echo any thoughts already shared. From the front office's perspective, I feel they wanted to make sure they didn't overreact to the Jimmy Nelson injury. If we look at the team's progression to 2019, Nelson, Anderson, Davies, Chacin, Woodruff, Burnes, Peralta, and Ortiz would all appear to be viable candidates to battle for the five rotations spots. The goal obviously isn't to throw away 2018, but balance also must be found by not over-investing to help save face for 2018, either. Miley, Guerra, Suter, and Woodruff may not be the greatest collection of talent for two rotations spots, but they have all shown something in the past. If the season progresses and the team needs a top-of-the-rotation guy to compete, which Cobb is not, then they still have financial flexibility to add on any sort of player salary-wise.

 

Salary isn't the problem when looking at mid-season acquisitions. It's the prospect capital needed to get it done. Good luck getting a TOR guy without giving up at least one or two of Woodruff, Burnes, Peralta or Ortiz. That's basically cutting off your nose to spite your face then.

[TJseven7]

I'm glad we didn't give Cobb that or more. We probably could have afforded it, but for what improvements? Especially over 4 years. It takes away any flexibility that we have. What if we sign him then have a position player pull a Villar of last year and need a bullpen piece or two? There's no way we would afford deadline additions. Then in 19-21 we are paying him 15 per for stats that Woodruff and Burnes can match. I believe our rotation can hold up and now we still have deadline flexibility. Dodged a bullet as far as I'm concerned.

 

Great post. It's not the automatic upgrade that people are making it out to be, and they weren't closing the gap on the Dodgers, Cubs, or Nationals anyway.

 

Offense rivaled teams on raw avg obp tb and hr of teams scoring 4.9 runs per game.

We got better on offense.

I've laid out the numbers it would take to get to a +1.2 run diff that rivals those squads. It's possible now.

None of our young arms look like Scherzer Strasberg Kershaw or even Darvish or Q.

They lose some, they'll get comp picks and they'll buy more.

 

When exactly do you think this will change? It's a defeatist attitude. Their ability to stay ontop is much more effortless than our ability to replace Knebel Nelson Anderson.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Guerra was the Brewers' opening day starter last season after a strong and surprising 2016, and his year got derailed by his calf injury on a bunt attempt. If he's healthy and anything like the Guerra of 2016, penciling him in towards the bottom of the rotation is a big upgrade from their 2017 #5 slot. However, it's entirely possible he opens at AAA because of his unique option still remaining - because the Brewers may have better options to open the regular season in the rotation and their early season schedule doesn't really require a #5 starter very often. The regular season is 162 games long - I keep reminding myself that the first 5 starters for Milwaukee last season were Guerra, Davies, Wily Peralta, Anderson, and Millone - and they broke camp with a dumpster fire of bullpen...and still managed to win 86 games. LOTS can change and will.

 

The Cubs 1-5 obviously looks better on paper than Milwaukee's opening day rotation - they sure as hell had to pay for it in contracts and prospect equity over the past few years. Look a bit further and realize that after options 1-5 for them, there's essentially an empty cupboard within the organization, particularly from a young SP standpoint. The inevitable injury or two is going to force them to start guys who hope to provide the production that a Miley could give Milwaukee.

 

Sticking with the Brewers, I believe Woodruff needs every opportunity in 2018 to earn a MLB rotation spot. Couple that with Anderson, Davies, the Brewers' own FA starting pitcher signing in Chacin, a returning Nelson, and by all indicators a soon to be MLB-ready Burnes, their rotation is suddenly filled out with homegrown and cheaply acquired talent. That doesn't even include Suter, Guerra, and the Miley-type vets brought in to provide depth and bullpen flexibility. Depending on how this season goes, IMO 2nd half 2018 or start of 2019 would still be a pretty good opportunity for the Brewers to give their organization's best arm a shot at the rotation - Hader.

 

And as has been mentioned often, there will be plenty of quality starting pitchers available at this year's trade deadline considering this year's MLB landscape - It wouldn't surprise me at all to see starters like DeGrom, Stroman, Archer, Baumgarner, Hamels, Duffy, Fulmer, etc. be on the block. I see the 2018 season shaping up alot like the 2008, where the Brewers opened the year with a strong offensive lineup and solid bullpen, but a questionable-on paper rotation only to bring in Sabathia at the deadline and go on a roll that had many people thinking they could do serious postseason damage until Sheets broke down and ruined their chances. That year, there weren't a ton of teams considering themselves "contenders", and many of the division leaders weren't in the market for starting pitchers or didn't have the minor league capital to acquire one.

 

As for continuing to view the Yelich and Cain acquisitions as justification to force another FA starter signing to "go for it" stronger in 2018 - that's not seeing the forest through the trees. I am definitely curious with how the opening day roster will shake out with the glut of OF/1B options on this team, but moves to bring in position players for 5 seasons don't require a forced improvement to the rotation in year 1.

[TJseven7]

A lot of people have begged the organization to let their young pitchers get a chance and that group may very well get their wish. Maybe not right away but soon we could have Woofruff, Burnes, Suter and of course Nelson.

 

That makes the case of why you don't sign Chacin more than it does Cobb. Kids having to replace a 4 era guy is one thing. Expecting them to come in and be a guy who can go 6ip and sub 3.6 is quite another. No one thinks Chacin has a chance at a 3.2 era. If cobb finds his monster pitch he does. TOR capable guys rarely go for as little as 15 mil or 4 years. The FA class next year is just as old.

[TJseven7]

To me it's just a bunch of people saying "I've heard of Cobb, Lynn, and Arrieta, but I've never really heard of Suter and Woodruff, so the Brewers better sign someone". That's more of an "on paper" move though. Those guys probably aren't worth the effort of getting upset about, at least not at the price they got. Other options will come along if the Brewers are still in it in July, and if they're not, then Cobb, Lynn, or Arrieta wouldn't have helped much anyway and would have been a waste of a pick.

 

They may very well be able to trade for a TOR-type pitcher, but that pitcher will more than likely either be already on an expensive contract, or getting very close to it. It is also going to cost a much larger sum than whatever their 4th round draft pick would bring in.

 

Thank you for not glancing past this like others on here are doing. I've already read how Yelich isn't exactly cheap as soon as next year. Yet, oh we'll add an arm. Yeah for 8mil and/or a ton of prospect value. We could have added cobb for what amounts to Braden Webb or Murphy.

[Roderick]

Yelich and Cain were acquired for 4 and 5 years. Neither move was "all in" or "going for it" but simply making the team better for the foreseeable future. Signing an aging, mediocre pitcher to a multiyear deal for even market value just doesn't make sense right now. I'm sure Stearns and the FO care no more about 2018 than they do 2019 or 2022.

 

If Lorenzo Cain wasn't going to be 32 in a few weeks, I'd be more on board with this line of thinking.

 

My thoughts. If they just trade for Yelich, that is a youth for youth move and there is no expectation of adding pitching. And I am okay with that.

 

But, if you are going to sign Cain, then you can't sit on the sidelines anymore, as your window has started (no I don't assume any position player is going to be what they once were when they hit about 33).

 

Tack on not having a trade for Santana in place (I don't care if it fell through) and not adding a starter when Lynn/Cobb were darn affordable. I won't blame him for locking in Sogard as who knew that the prices of everything would fall like this. And I guess he didn't lock in Vogt, but here we are stuck with his price for the year, right? Must be some type of morale guy.

[TJseven7]

To me it's just a bunch of people saying "I've heard of Cobb, Lynn, and Arrieta, but I've never really heard of Suter and Woodruff, so the Brewers better sign someone". That's more of an "on paper" move though. Those guys probably aren't worth the effort of getting upset about, at least not at the price they got. Other options will come along if the Brewers are still in it in July, and if they're not, then Cobb, Lynn, or Arrieta wouldn't have helped much anyway and would have been a waste of a pick.

With all due respect, that is garbage. Many folks on here have laid out their issues with Suter in particular. So much so that I don't even need to mention them and you know what they are. People are acting like there is an either/or choice between using the guys we have or bringing in some upper echelon talent. The smart play was to do both. It's not about building depth, it's about building quality depth. You are going to need quality depth if you really consider yourself a contender. I'd feel much better with Suter, Woodruff, Burnes as my 6th, 7th and 8th options. There isn't one team that is seriously considered a contender that has guys like Gallardo/Miley/Guerra/Suter fighting it out for the last two spots in their rotation.

 

The worst part. 4 man rotation, 8 man pen. Suter Miley pen... Guerra Woodruff and obviously Burnes down. The only guy you have to discard from your wealth of depth is Yo. Knebel Hader Albers Jeffress Logan Hoover, barnes williams houser down. Yeah, yo's the depth loss.

[coolhandluke121]

To me it's just a bunch of people saying "I've heard of Cobb, Lynn, and Arrieta, but I've never really heard of Suter and Woodruff, so the Brewers better sign someone". That's more of an "on paper" move though. Those guys probably aren't worth the effort of getting upset about, at least not at the price they got. Other options will come along if the Brewers are still in it in July, and if they're not, then Cobb, Lynn, or Arrieta wouldn't have helped much anyway and would have been a waste of a pick.

With all due respect, that is garbage.

 

It's not "garbage" dude. You know what's garbage? Over-paying and wasting draft picks on injured/aging guys in notable decline in free agency, especially when you're a small market.

 

Why are the Brewers in this position in the first place? Everyone thought they were supposed to tank, but last season was a testament to how buy-low guys and under-the-radar steals are not only better values than retreads, injury risks, and guys on the decline, they're often better, period. And people want to turn right around after all the success they had last year and waste money and draft picks on 30-something free agent pitchers with all kinds of red flags, going back to the logic that basically squandered one of the best minor league systems this century in Mark A's first 10 years. It blows my mind. At least Garza and Suppan and Wolf and Lohse were totally healthy.

[TJseven7]

I haven't gone through the entire thread so I apologize if I echo any thoughts already shared. From the front office's perspective, I feel they wanted to make sure they didn't overreact to the Jimmy Nelson injury. If we look at the team's progression to 2019, Nelson, Anderson, Davies, Chacin, Woodruff, Burnes, Peralta, and Ortiz would all appear to be viable candidates to battle for the five rotations spots. The goal obviously isn't to throw away 2018, but balance also must be found by not over-investing to help save face for 2018, either. Miley, Guerra, Suter, and Woodruff may not be the greatest collection of talent for two rotations spots, but they have all shown something in the past. If the season progresses and the team needs a top-of-the-rotation guy to compete, which Cobb is not, then they still have financial flexibility to add on any sort of player salary-wise.

 

TOR guy. So 5 elite farm pieces taking woodruff Burnes Peralta off your list of our buikt rotation ranks. If cobb isn't a TOR, then we'll never sign a TOR. Davrish Arrieta never considered us and we shouldn't have considered them.

 

I see this in no way as a reaction to Nelson. Its a good price on a talented guy, in FA. Cost a 4th round pick. It was a rare opportunity. On top of that, looking at this as salary is a shallow view. Keeping burnes peralta woodruff can drive down future salary with cheap controlled talent. After we get Nelson back we could have 2 MLB starters to trade away before 2019. (and Santana if Hiura is ready to upgrade 2b) Chacin and 1 of Nelson Anderson Davies. Get ahead of the curve buying at good prices... trade off excess to restock behind it. Get 3 guys who can carry the era... use 4-5 to develop the next wave. Right now we don't have 3. Only way to have 3 is pray Nelson is Nelson is the 2017 version upon return or a miracle from chacin suter woodruff guerra.

 

Had a chance to have too much pitching. Acted like a poor farm team.

[gebc1997]

Let's not forget that there is a good chance that the team considers Hader as a rotation member as early as next year.

[pacopete4]

A lot of people have begged the organization to let their young pitchers get a chance and that group may very well get their wish. Maybe not right away but soon we could have Woofruff, Burnes, Suter and of course Nelson.

 

That makes the case of why you don't sign Chacin more than it does Cobb. Kids having to replace a 4 era guy is one thing. Expecting them to come in and be a guy who can go 6ip and sub 3.6 is quite another. No one thinks Chacin has a chance at a 3.2 era. If cobb finds his monster pitch he does. TOR capable guys rarely go for as little as 15 mil or 4 years. The FA class next year is just as old.

Maybe Stearns doesn't see them at TOR guys going forward though. That is the part you're missing on. You have your opinion on them, but he might have his. And there's really only one that matters. Chacin was a great deal. He could turn out to pitch just as well as those "TOR" guys you are mentioning. Maybe he doesn't but he could for a fraction of the price tag.

[coolhandluke121]

Maybe Stearns doesn't see them at TOR guys going forward though. That is the part you're missing on. You have your opinion on them, but he might have his. And there's really only one that matters. Chacin was a great deal. He could turn out to pitch just as well as those "TOR" guys you are mentioning. Maybe he doesn't but he could for a fraction of the price tag.

 

Yep. There's just so much history of free agent pitchers being bad values. Can't gloss over that.

[TJseven7]

Guerra was the Brewers' opening day starter last season after a strong and surprising 2016, and his year got derailed by his calf injury on a bunt attempt. If he's healthy and anything like the Guerra of 2016, penciling him in towards the bottom of the rotation is a big upgrade from their 2017 #5 slot. However, it's entirely possible he opens at AAA because of his unique option still remaining - because the Brewers may have better options to open the regular season in the rotation and their early season schedule doesn't really require a #5 starter very often. The regular season is 162 games long - I keep reminding myself that the first 5 starters for Milwaukee last season were Guerra, Davies, Wily Peralta, Anderson, and Millone - and they broke camp with a dumpster fire of bullpen...and still managed to win 86 games. LOTS can change and will.

 

The Cubs 1-5 obviously looks better on paper than Milwaukee's opening day rotation - they sure as hell had to pay for it in contracts and prospect equity over the past few years. Look a bit further and realize that after options 1-5 for them, there's essentially an empty cupboard within the organization, particularly from a young SP standpoint. The inevitable injury or two is going to force them to start guys who hope to provide the production that a Miley could give Milwaukee.

 

Sticking with the Brewers, I believe Woodruff needs every opportunity in 2018 to earn a MLB rotation spot. Couple that with Anderson, Davies, the Brewers' own FA starting pitcher signing in Chacin, a returning Nelson, and by all indicators a soon to be MLB-ready Burnes, their rotation is suddenly filled out with homegrown and cheaply acquired talent. That doesn't even include Suter, Guerra, and the Miley-type vets brought in to provide depth and bullpen flexibility. Depending on how this season goes, IMO 2nd half 2018 or start of 2019 would still be a pretty good opportunity for the Brewers to give their organization's best arm a shot at the rotation - Hader.

 

And as has been mentioned often, there will be plenty of quality starting pitchers available at this year's trade deadline considering this year's MLB landscape - It wouldn't surprise me at all to see starters like DeGrom, Stroman, Archer, Baumgarner, Hamels, Duffy, Fulmer, etc. be on the block. I see the 2018 season shaping up alot like the 2008, where the Brewers opened the year with a strong offensive lineup and solid bullpen, but a questionable-on paper rotation only to bring in Sabathia at the deadline and go on a roll that had many people thinking they could do serious postseason damage until Sheets broke down and ruined their chances. That year, there weren't a ton of teams considering themselves "contenders", and many of the division leaders weren't in the market for starting pitchers or didn't have the minor league capital to acquire one.

 

As for continuing to view the Yelich and Cain acquisitions as justification to force another FA starter signing to "go for it" stronger in 2018 - that's not seeing the forest through the trees. I am definitely curious with how the opening day roster will shake out with the glut of OF/1B options on this team, but moves to bring in position players for 5 seasons don't require a forced improvement to the rotation in year 1.

 

Paragraph 1: Guerra stopped strinking people out. His walks are worse. His fall league numbers don't even rival his fall league numbers before his magical flash in the pan year. That's exactly what it was. He's soggy toast. He can be better than last year but nothing is pointing to 2016 coming back.

 

Paragraph 2: Couldn't agree more. So make sure not to put pressure on them! Have 3 rotation spots of chacin and clutter. Let them bounce back offensively and build a lead.

 

Paragraph 3: If that's what you want fine. Stop looking at guerra and miley then. Go suter woodruff from the jump and don't expect much. It took anderson and nelson quite awhile to get to where they are now.

 

Paragraph 4: Quality arms available? Ok delete paragraph 3 because you just traded them. Can't have it both ways.

[TJseven7]

A lot of people have begged the organization to let their young pitchers get a chance and that group may very well get their wish. Maybe not right away but soon we could have Woofruff, Burnes, Suter and of course Nelson.

 

That makes the case of why you don't sign Chacin more than it does Cobb. Kids having to replace a 4 era guy is one thing. Expecting them to come in and be a guy who can go 6ip and sub 3.6 is quite another. No one thinks Chacin has a chance at a 3.2 era. If cobb finds his monster pitch he does. TOR capable guys rarely go for as little as 15 mil or 4 years. The FA class next year is just as old.

Maybe Stearns doesn't see them at TOR guys going forward though. That is the part you're missing on. You have your opinion on them, but he might have his. And there's really only one that matters. Chacin was a great deal. He could turn out to pitch just as well as those "TOR" guys you are mentioning. Maybe he doesn't but he could for a fraction of the price tag.

 

Them... I'm talking only about Cobb. I like the chacin add but he's followed up his last 2 31 start seasons with a 14 start 4.4 and an 11 start 5.4. That happens in 2018 we're dead to rights. Has had 1 good year in the last 4. Cobb was better than him last year without feel for his best pitch. You take Chacins slider away he's fish food. You take cobbs split change away, hes better than Chacin.

[gebc1997]

Chacin had 32 starts last year.

 

3 starts for a 20.70 era

29 starts for a 2.91 era

 

All three bad starts were on the road and early in the season

Whip of 1.27

Fip a reasonable 4.2

 

I think he will be a great addition to the rotation

[JosephC]

Just a bit flabbergasted that Lynn could only pull in a 1 year, 12 million dollar deal and Cobb gets 60 million. A bit of a head-scratcher. Hard to believe the Orioles had this offer on the table for awhile and Cobb was holding out for more since most of the early projections put Cobb in the range of anywhere from 48 to 56 million. And if the Orioles did significantly bump the offer, then what took them so long? If they were going to give him every bit of perceived market value, then why not do it a month ago where they can have him right at the start of spring training and can completely monitor his workload?

 

I don't think the Orioles have enough to contend for the division title, but they could be interesting if they get some bounce-back performances. The days of Chris Davis being a .900+ OPS guy are probably over, but maybe he can repeat his 2016 performance (.221/.332/.459/.791, 38 HRs). One has to take the bad with the good concerning Mark Trumbo, he might only hit 20 home runs but it wouldn't be all that surprising to see him hit 35. Machado, Schoop and Adam Jones (when factoring in his defense) are all good players. I'm assuming Chance Sisco will be their starting catcher at the beginning of the year or will have the starting job shortly after, with him and LF-Mancini they have two pretty talented young players in there. If Davis and Trumbo have good seasons then the offense should be really good. Kevin Gausman was a 3.91 FIP pitcher from 2014-2016, if he bounces back and Bundy makes another jump, the rotation lacks a true ace but the group of Gausman, Bundy and Cobb could be pretty solid. Despite that ERA of 3.40 last year, I'm not an Andrew Cashner fan but no question he could get it done as a back end of the rotation piece. The loss of Zach Britton was pretty huge. I really like Brach, Givens and O'Day just keeps chugging along. The rest of their bullpen is really questionable. 6 weeks ago I would have said they should be going into full rebuild mode with the upcoming loss of Machado, but now have to reconsider that after looking at what they have put together. There is a reasonable chance that this team could be pretty good.

[DuWayne Steurer]

If you cherry-pick away 10% of anybody's worst games they're going to look better. The Brewers missed the playoffs by exactly one game last year, so cherry picking away three tremendously awful starts doesn't do anybody any favors. That being said I still like the addition of Chacin, I'm just personally not a fan of cherry picking in this context.

[TJseven7]

To me it's just a bunch of people saying "I've heard of Cobb, Lynn, and Arrieta, but I've never really heard of Suter and Woodruff, so the Brewers better sign someone". That's more of an "on paper" move though. Those guys probably aren't worth the effort of getting upset about, at least not at the price they got. Other options will come along if the Brewers are still in it in July, and if they're not, then Cobb, Lynn, or Arrieta wouldn't have helped much anyway and would have been a waste of a pick.

With all due respect, that is garbage.

 

It's not "garbage" dude. You know what's garbage? Over-paying and wasting draft picks on injured/aging guys in notable decline in free agency, especially when you're a small market.

 

Why are the Brewers in this position in the first place? Everyone thought they were supposed to tank, but last season was a testament to how buy-low guys and under-the-radar steals are not only better values than retreads, injury risks, and guys on the decline, they're often better, period. And people want to turn right around after all the success they had last year and waste money and draft picks on 30-something free agent pitchers with all kinds of red flags, going back to the logic that basically squandered one of the best minor league systems this century in Mark A's first 10 years. It blows my mind. At least Garza and Suppan and Wolf and Lohse were totally healthy.

 

Yeah its garbage. As is the notable decline line. Cobb was in his first year back from TJ and didn't have the feel for his monster pitch. Hes a sinker curve change junk pitcher and they age well. Other than looking at his 2-3-4 offering driven 3.7 era... make an arguement for notable decline.

 

Brewers were challenging 1st because the cubs arms aged badly (enter Q darvish chatwood) and their offense and pen under performed. Because they turned a big time talent like Nelson into production. Because Anderson Knebel blew up. Because Davies was a junk ball rock solid guy. It wasn't due to some young pitcher. It wasn't due to hitting on retreds. It was due to polishing up existing talent like Santana Shaw Anderson Nelson Knebel. Cobb fits that a heck of a lot better than anyone else in the narrative. It was also due to some dumb luck because +.5 run diff was terribly inferior to the cubs mark. Team won a boatload of close games.

[SeaBass]

I'm catching up on 3 or 4 pages of this thread but what's getting to me a bit is that the people that are... puzzled (going with that word rather than attach emotion to it) that the Brewers didn't make a significant pitching acquisition all seem to want to point back to the Cain signing as the reason not getting a pitcher puzzles them so much.

 

They signed Cain on January 25th. That might as well be 100 years ago the way this off season has played out.

 

Clearly the Brewers had ideas, they knew what they wanted to do. They wanted more pitching. It just didn't happen. Hindsight, sure, I'll concede that if they knew they would fail to add a pitcher they may not have signed Cain. But I think it's reasonable to say that they felt pretty confident they'd get a pitcher. Again, it just didn't happen.

 

They can't return Cain to Amazon for a refund. Lick your wounds and make a new plan. That plan didn't include spending big money on middle rotation starting pitching.

[pacopete4]

If you cherry-pick away 10% of anybody's worst games they're going to look better. The Brewers missed the playoffs by exactly one game last year, so cherry picking away three tremendously awful starts doesn't do anybody any favors. That being said I still like the addition of Chacin, I'm just personally not a fan of cherry picking in this context.

I don't think that is what the poster intended. He was showing how well Chacin threw the ball last year in over 90% of the starts he made. That is a great stat for us to keep in mind because if he can repeat that, he will be a very good #3 in our rotation.

[TJseven7]

Chacin had 32 starts last year.

 

3 starts for a 20.70 era

29 starts for a 2.91 era

 

All three bad starts were on the road and early in the season

Whip of 1.27

Fip a reasonable 4.2

 

I think he will be a great addition to the rotation

 

If you take April out of Davies numbers hes a 3.5 era guy.

Or conversely

When has Chacin followed up a 31 start sub 4 era year with a season over 14 starts and an era south of 4.4?

 

Answer: Never.

[pacopete4]

Chacin had 32 starts last year.

 

3 starts for a 20.70 era

29 starts for a 2.91 era

 

All three bad starts were on the road and early in the season

Whip of 1.27

Fip a reasonable 4.2

 

I think he will be a great addition to the rotation

 

If you take April out of Davies numbers hes a 3.5 era guy.

Or conversely

When has Chacin followed up a 31 start sub 4 era year with a season over 14 starts and an era south of 4.4?

 

Answer: Never.

Good thing he is on a 2-year deal then.