Alex Cobb (Part 3)

[pacopete4]

To me Suter is not a starter and Woodruff has plenty to work on.

[brewmann04]

I not seeing this rotation especially at the back end being that good and I am not sure what type of Magic Derek Johnson can work

on those guys but again very concerned.

[Jaylyn]

Victor Santos! Now that's a name I haven't thought of in years. Didn't he get the nickname "Vampire" around here because he only pitched good at night?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Victor Santos! Now that's a name I haven't thought of in years. Didn't he get the nickname "Vampire" around here because he only pitched good at night?

 

One in the same. Those were some rough years. It's really too bad that the minor league pitching talent didn't match the hitting talent (Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, Hall, and Lucroy and Braun later) that was coming up through the system. Those teams could have been a dynasty had Sheets not broken down and they developed a few more pitching prospects.

 

What gives me hope about the current system is that while it may not have as many blue-chip offensive guys as 15 years ago, it is much more solid from top to bottom, and there are several young pitchers with legit major league potential.

[istanbultaye]

I think the chances that Miley can hold down a 5 ip / start 4.5 ERA or better is much greater than 1%. As long as they don't hold out hope on him for 10 starts of badness I am not going to complain about giving him a shot at the backend of the rotation. I think they've already shown a willingness to move on from some of these "give them a shot" pitchers as they've already taken Yo out of the rotation race.

 

My problem with the idea of Miley is it's a page straight out of the mid-2000s Brewers handbook of "sign a bunch of junk, and start the best of them." That's how we got the likes of Victor Santos, Wes Obermueller and Wayne Franklin in those intrepid rotations. I guess I incorrectly thought that the new regime was going to focus on developing in-house pitching, and give them chances to produce. There is simply nothing that Brent Suter and Brandon Woodruff have left to prove at AAA to warrant a guy like Miley getting a spot over them. The fact that they didn't make a move other than Chacin to strengthen the pitching staff tells me that they are not in "go for it" mode, so I guess that's another reason I don't understand why they wouldn't roll with Suter and Woodruff, as those guys stand a much better chance of being part of the team when it is going for it than Miley does.

 

I would have been more enthused about Yo, but that's my heart talking, not my head. I'm a sucker for nostalgia.

 

The thing is, in those years, the problem was that the Brewers were filling out 3+ spots in the rotation with those kinds of guys. As long as it's only 1 spot, and the leash isn't too long, I'm not going to get too uptight about it.

[brewmann04]

I think the crew has some nice staring possibilities coming up and that is promising.

[82brewcrew82]

I think the chances that Miley can hold down a 5 ip / start 4.5 ERA or better is much greater than 1%. As long as they don't hold out hope on him for 10 starts of badness I am not going to complain about giving him a shot at the backend of the rotation. I think they've already shown a willingness to move on from some of these "give them a shot" pitchers as they've already taken Yo out of the rotation race.

 

My problem with the idea of Miley is it's a page straight out of the mid-2000s Brewers handbook of "sign a bunch of junk, and start the best of them." That's how we got the likes of Victor Santos, Wes Obermueller and Wayne Franklin in those intrepid rotations. I guess I incorrectly thought that the new regime was going to focus on developing in-house pitching, and give them chances to produce. There is simply nothing that Brent Suter and Brandon Woodruff have left to prove at AAA to warrant a guy like Miley getting a spot over them. The fact that they didn't make a move other than Chacin to strengthen the pitching staff tells me that they are not in "go for it" mode, so I guess that's another reason I don't understand why they wouldn't roll with Suter and Woodruff, as those guys stand a much better chance of being part of the team when it is going for it than Miley does.

 

I would have been more enthused about Yo, but that's my heart talking, not my head. I'm a sucker for nostalgia.

 

The thing is, in those years, the problem was that the Brewers were filling out 3+ spots in the rotation with those kinds of guys. As long as it's only 1 spot, and the leash isn't too long, I'm not going to get too uptight about it.

I disagree with the premise that we aren't filling 3 rotation spots with that kid of interchangeable talent. For the life of me I don't know why Chacin is being inked in as a definite upgrade. I think that situation has bust potential written all over it. Miley is just plain horrible. Suter I very much like in a swing role, but I think he has some serious issues as a permanent rotation member.

[torts]

my man from johnstown is bringing some spice to this thread! 20 WAR player had me rollin'!

[TURBO]

Who are we kidding? The entire rotation as it sits could be a major disappointment.

 

All we can do at this point is hope that Anderson's 2017 wasn't a fluke and Davies takes a step forward. If either of those to falter, and Chacin doesn't deliver to the level most here think he will, we are basically screwed.

 

Add Nelson to the list of GIANT question marks as well. There is always the chance that he comes back ineffective and injury prone the rest of the season.

 

We are playing with fire in a major way.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Who are we kidding? The entire rotation as it sits could be a major disappointment.

 

All we can do at this point is hope that Anderson's 2017 wasn't a fluke and Davies takes a step forward. If either of those to falter, and Chacin doesn't deliver to the level most here think he will, we are basically screwed.

 

Add Nelson to the list of GIANT question marks as well. There is always the chance that he comes back ineffective and injury prone the rest of the season.

 

We are playing with fire in a major way.

 

Rotation with Cobb = smoldering fire

Rotation without Cobb = raging fire

 

Hopefully Derek Johnson has plenty of foam in his fire hydrant.

[gebc1997]

I agree the team will be better off if they can add Cobb especially to increase the depth and the cushion for another injury.

 

I have trouble understanding why woodruff just seems to get brushed aside as a solid 4/5 option for us. He's a consensus top 100 prospect who has 8 major league starts under his belt, in which 6 were good to great. I really think that if he had a routine 6ip, 3er start his last start of the year last year, people on here would have him locked into the rotation.

 

It's time for him to be part of the rotation

[stoutdude04]

Who are we kidding? The entire rotation as it sits could be a major disappointment.

 

All we can do at this point is hope that Anderson's 2017 wasn't a fluke and Davies takes a step forward. If either of those to falter, and Chacin doesn't deliver to the level most here think he will, we are basically screwed.

 

Add Nelson to the list of GIANT question marks as well. There is always the chance that he comes back ineffective and injury prone the rest of the season.

 

We are playing with fire in a major way.

 

I agree with this. I am not convinced that Anderson is the pitcher we saw last year. I surely hope that is the case, but I would like to see the continued uptick in velocity to feel better about it.

 

As to Woodruff, I think a lot of people on this board are having a hard time putting him in the rotation because that is what most are expecting. Typical Brewers fashion seems to trend towards older experienced veterans(good or bad) instead of a young prospect. I don't think it's people don't want him in the rotation, but that people are expecting the let down of having Guerra, Miley, etc starting.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I agree the team will be better off if they can add Cobb especially to increase the depth and the cushion for another injury.

 

I have trouble understanding why woodruff just seems to get brushed aside as a solid 4/5 option for us. He's a consensus top 100 prospect who has 8 major league starts under his belt, in which 6 were good to great. I really think that if he had a routine 6ip, 3er start his last start of the year last year, people on here would have him locked into the rotation.

 

It's time for him to be part of the rotation

 

I could not agree with this post more. If we are going to roll with question marks in the #4-5 spots, they should at least be intriguing question marks with upside.

[torts]

 

I have trouble understanding why woodruff just seems to get brushed aside as a solid 4/5 option for us.

 

its because most people on here believe that our organization can't draft anything other than relief or bottom rotation starting pitching at best.

[pacopete4]

Who are we kidding? The entire rotation as it sits could be a major disappointment.

 

All we can do at this point is hope that Anderson's 2017 wasn't a fluke and Davies takes a step forward. If either of those to falter, and Chacin doesn't deliver to the level most here think he will, we are basically screwed.

 

Add Nelson to the list of GIANT question marks as well. There is always the chance that he comes back ineffective and injury prone the rest of the season.

 

We are playing with fire in a major way.

 

Isnt this the same for about 90% of the teams in the MLB? We have some minor success last season and pretend that this is going to change over night. It’s a very good reason as to why I’m good to wait and see how the season and some of our younger arms do before we go too deep into free agents that we don’t recover for 10 years.

[monty57]

I think Anderson Davies chacin woodruff and suter will be a quality rotation until we can add Nelson back by June something

 

"Quality" or "Passable?"

 

With the current mix, that is the rotation I'd go with, I just think we're going to have a lot of high scoring games. We have three guys who should be okay in Anderson, Davies and Chacin. None of them are "aces," but they're guys I'm comfortable seeing on the mound every five days.

 

I like Suter as a swingman, like the Cubs use Montgomery. He could be very useful to the team as a guy who can pitch multiple innings out of the pen, come in against a tough lefty, pitch one inning, or start a game here and there when needed. He seems to have problems when hitters get 2-3 plate appearances against him, so I have some concerns if he's put into the rotation as a full-time starter. That said, he's probably a better option than the rest of the guys he's competing against.

 

I'd also go with Woodruff, in large part because the Brewers need to have prospects make the step from the farm to the big leagues. Since they've relegated Hader to bullpen duty, Woodruff is the best shot right now for a rookie to succeed as a starter. I expect a bumpy ride from him, but he should get a shot. If there was any truth to the "controllable young talent" comments, Woodruff has to be given a shot.

 

Signing Cobb would be a huge upgrade, as it would not only add a quality starter to the rotation, but it would also allow Suter to take on the swingman role where he would be a valuable contributor to the team. I just don't think we could afford to pay everyone in 2019 if Cobb were signed to more than a one-year deal.

[paul253]

My sense from a number in this threas:

 

Add Cobb.: Brewers go 92-70

Don't add Cobb : Brewers go 72-90

 

The first ever 20 WAR player

 

More likely scenario:

 

Add Cobb : Brewers go 89-73

No Cobb : Brewers go 88-74

 

A little late to the game here so I apologize.

 

First off, the Brewers missed the playoffs by a game last year. So that one game difference you see could be the difference between a playoff appearance and no playoff appearance.

 

Realistically though I think Cobb is more than a one game difference over Wade Miley/Junior Guerra type pitchers. I’m not sure if people think a few spring training appearances all of a sudden turned Miley back into an all star pitcher but I think it’s more likely that he’s closer to the 2016 version of himself than the 2012 version of himself. So Cobb is and his 1-2 run lower ERA would be a significant upgrade.

 

Adding Cobb though also adds depth. It’s another quality arm in the rotation that will help with the inevitable injury. It may prevent the need for Yovani Gallardo to start a few games or to call up Burnes and start his clock.

 

I think it’s extremely disingenuous to suggest people expect Cobb to make an 8 or 9 game difference. It’ more like a 2-3 game difference, which as last year showed can be a pretty big deal. But if you can’t at least understand why some people have concerns about the current rotation then I’m not sure what to say to you.

 

I have certainly been wrong before, but as of now I’d say the rotation is going to keep the Brewers out of the playoffs. The lineup is built to win. The bullpen seems good enough. The rotation is chalk full of question marks.

[torts]

I feel cheated out of the 50 pages deleted

[And That]

The previous two parts of the Alex Cobb thread can be found here and here.