Alex Cobb (Part 3)

[KCBrewerfan34]

Maybe Cobb doesn’t want to play in Milwaukee.

[coolhandluke121]

I have zero sources but I find it is inconceivable that they don't end up with on of the 3 pitchers. We can find something to occupy our time until then.

 

They absolutely would not have picked up those outfielders otherwise.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

Why? Seems like he's using the word exactly as he intends.

 

As you wish.

[coolhandluke121]

 

To say that Stearns is just adding random pieces when he can is fine if they aren't 32 years old and cost you $80 Million and a draft pick.

 

No, the Cain addition was not just a guy we added in a vacuum because they got some amazing deal. We overpaid because he is to be a headliner for a team that is supposed to contend for a WS in the next 2 to 3 years max.

 

That's debatable. You know how some neighborhoods hold their value even in the most depressed housing markets? When there's not many people with money looking to buy, they still want the best house within their means. Cain is the equivalent of a nice house in that neighborhood. Guys like him are always very valuable if healthy. I do think it's a good value signing that they couldn't pass up. Compared to guys like Hosmer or Martinez or the deals some of these pitchers will get, I like the deal even in this depressed market.

[danzig6767]

Someone said it earlier and I’ll repeat. The roster doesn’t make a lot of sense right now. They have four starting outfielders. Fair enough. You can maybe move one to first part time. But they also already have a pretty good platoon at first and now half of that platoon has nowhere to go. Meanwhile they appear to be going quantity over quality in the rotation even though there some decent quality still available. I have to believe when Stearns signed Cain he thought he could move Santana for a starter. Perhaps this is a lesson learned. Don’t make move 2 before you make move 1???

 

I just hope the plan isn’t to just outhit everyone and win with offense because that generally doesn’t work. I’m very worried about the rotation.

 

Acquiring Cain and Yelich was about improving both the lineup and the outfield defense. Stearns it seems was troubled by the idea of going forward with poor outfield defense in RF and LF, along with a lineup so heavy on strikeout prone hitters.

 

That said, i do think odds are that Stearns made the moves hoping Santana could also be traded for a starter or one could be added in free agency.

 

Keeping Santana though isn't some horrible scenario given he's arguably the best hitter on the roster and has room to get even better since he should be entering his prime. Santana hits for average, power, and gets on base at a high clip.

[82brewcrew82]

It's clear the Brewers are willing to spend significant assets, perhaps even overpay, if they believe the player they are acquiring is going to make a significant impact. They spent major capital acquiring Yelich and Cain. The fact they have set a price they're unwilling to exceed on the remaining free agent pitchers makes it clear as day that they have doubts about just how much impact these guys would make. That's very easy to grasp since these players' warts are well known to all.

I don't buy that first part for a minute. I think the Brewers think they got deals on both Yelich and Cain and that they didn't overpay for either. I would agree with your second point in that they have an opinion on what the remaining pitchers are worth and are standing on that opinion.

[82brewcrew82]

I have zero sources but I find it is inconceivable that they don't end up with on of the 3 pitchers. We can find something to occupy our time until then.

 

They absolutely would not have picked up those outfielders otherwise.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

Why? Seems like he's using the word exactly as he intends.

Nonsense. You’re only saying that because no one ever has.

[Boomer5]

 

To say that Stearns is just adding random pieces when he can is fine if they aren't 32 years old and cost you $80 Million and a draft pick.

 

No, the Cain addition was not just a guy we added in a vacuum because they got some amazing deal. We overpaid because he is to be a headliner for a team that is supposed to contend for a WS in the next 2 to 3 years max.

 

That's debatable. You know how some neighborhoods hold their value even in the most depressed housing markets? When there's not many people with money looking to buy, they still want the best house within their means. Cain is the equivalent of a nice house in that neighborhood. Guys like him are always very valuable if healthy. I do think it's a good value signing that they couldn't pass up. Compared to guys like Hosmer or Martinez or the deals some of these pitchers will get, I like the deal even in this depressed market.

 

Cain is 32. That pretty much solidifies him as a declining asset based on 150 years of non PED baseball.

 

Doesn't mean he is a bad signing, it just means you would only add him if your goal was more than just be a competitive team.

[brewmann04]

I just agree that they really can't look to go into this season without really replacing Nelson in the rotation.

[82brewcrew82]

I just agree that they really can't look to go into this season without really replacing Nelson in the rotation.

Oh, they can and it looks like they will. If DS thinks that is the best move then I trust him. However, I will not buy into the notion that some window has opened or that the Yelich/Cain acquisitions were made with contention in mind, not with this rotation.

[superfly]

I appreciate the tidbits HH19 dropped earlier this offseason. The worst thing that happened though was saying the Brewers have decided to "go for it" in 2018. It has destroyed the ability to maintain a long-term view for many here. I suspect HH19 mischaracterized what Stearns and Co. actually decided. It's clear they merely shifted focus into acquiring long-term major league pieces as opposed to focusing solely on stocking the minor league system. That doesn't necessarily mean "win now". It means acquire major league pieces as opportunities present themselves and the winning will come soon enough. Leave no holes in 2018 could very well have happened (and still might) but not every opportunity to address weaknesses at an acceptable cost came to fruition. Stay the course, and eventually the right opportunities will be seized. Win now (2011) is how 2012-2016 happened.

 

I think "Go for it" is a very misused term by some here. "Going for it" was absolutely NOT what went on thus far this offseason. We (1) acquired a REALLY good OF that was on sale because his organization did not want him anymore because we had an elite farm system, and (2) signed a (right now and for a few years) REALLY good CF. There was no selling of the farm that went on here, nor has there been a free agent bonanza. Does Wade freakin Miley and Jhoulys Chacin at a bargain price constitute going for it on the pitching side?

 

"Going for it" would have been landing Yu Darvish, making these trades, and most likely making a trade for Chris Archer (or similar), and then either making another good sized pitching trade now or at the deadline, leaving our farm pretty barren.

[Boomer5]

Neither Cain nor Yelich were on sale. We paid full retail for them.

 

Now we the fan base would like to know why if there isn't a follow through.

[trwi7]

I strongly disagreed with the Yelich trade but at least he's signed long term through his prime and you could argue that even if the team "isn't ready" this year, they will be when Yelich is still in his prime and still has term on his contract.

 

Cain's signing signals that you want to win now because you're going to be lucky if you get three years before the contract goes south at which point you will not only have a declining player on your roster but also a player that won't be close to worth his salary which could prevent other moves that could help.

 

So strongly disagree with the Yelich trade but understand it. Have no clue why they signed Cain if they just planned on not adding anything else significant after him.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

Maybe Cobb doesn’t want to play in Milwaukee.

 

I’ve thought this myself..

[82brewcrew82]

Maybe Cobb doesn’t want to play in Milwaukee.

 

I’ve thought this myself..

I've been told players don't think this way.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Totally, that is the mystery. I just wouldn't assume we have set our price on all these pitchers and won't make an "overpay" suddenly. We could still be in the cat and mouse stage where we are trying to get a deal or below what we think their impact is worth. Maybe we think Cobb is worth 4/$65mil, but of course we would love to pay less. End of spring training maybe that isn't possible and it goes up.

 

Yep, and right now it seems that the Brewers have the leverage advantage, as there just doesn't seem to be a ton of interest in these guys at the numbers they are looking for. While it's frustrating for us as fans to wait, it makes really solid business sense for Stearns and the Brewers to draw a line in the sand and not cross it. I suppose it is also giving them the chance to really take a look at the starting pitching depth (or lack thereof) that they really have.

[brewmann04]

Oh your right us fans are going nuts and DS just waiting to get the best deal from one of them. Hopefully it gets done in the next few weeks

[HighHeat19]

Oh your right us fans are going nuts and DS just waiting to get the best deal from one of them. Hopefully it gets done in the next few weeks

 

Thumbs up.

 

Some of you think like agents, "Brewers are in win now. Let's fleece em" is the agent thought process. The best way to counter that thought process is to make them wait. Crew has shown their interest. No agent is going to make a deal without at least contacting the Brewers at the last minute. Every day these teams make a player wait it benefits the team not the player. Also look closer, Cobb, Lynn and Arrieta all maybe the best out there but their still not the cream. Brewers are playing a wait and see approach with their current starters. Injuries, effectiveness and a players willingness to take less will determine the Brewers acquisitions. It's dynamic with many moving parts. Stearns does not make irrational and emotional decisions. However, He will buy when the price is right. Be patient.

[MadScientist]

Totally, that is the mystery. I just wouldn't assume we have set our price on all these pitchers and won't make an "overpay" suddenly. We could still be in the cat and mouse stage where we are trying to get a deal or below what we think their impact is worth. Maybe we think Cobb is worth 4/$65mil, but of course we would love to pay less. End of spring training maybe that isn't possible and it goes up.

 

Yep, and right now it seems that the Brewers have the leverage advantage, as there just doesn't seem to be a ton of interest in these guys at the numbers they are looking for. While it's frustrating for us as fans to wait, it makes really solid business sense for Stearns and the Brewers to draw a line in the sand and not cross it. I suppose it is also giving them the chance to really take a look at the starting pitching depth (or lack thereof) that they really have.

 

And it makes solid business sense for the pitcher to wait in an environment like this. GM's have held the line and are not paying like previous seasons. So why shouldn't the pitchers wait to see if a team either has an injury or gets antsy about the quality of their staff and ups the ante. It makes sense but we want our Oompa-Loompa now.

[FVBrewerFan]

I have zero sources but I find it is inconceivable that they don't end up with on of the 3 pitchers. We can find something to occupy our time until then.

 

They absolutely would not have picked up those outfielders otherwise.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

Sorry, can't get past this. What do you think this word means? Seems like he's using the word in proper context.

[superfly]

Neither Cain nor Yelich were on sale. We paid full retail for them.

 

Now we the fan base would like to know why if there isn't a follow through.

 

Let me clarify. Yelich was "on sale" because if the Marlins weren't a joke of a baseball franchise he would have never been on the market to begin with period. end of story there.

 

I think we paid slightly under retail for Yelich in terms of what we value... gave up a few bats that are very high risk/reward and a meh pitching prospect. None of what Stearns gave up fits his "mold" we think he is using of OBP.

 

Cain on the other hand I agree fully, and really don't know why we did it, makes absolutely zero sense to me without a domino to fall after it. I have to believe there is still one coming here at some point before we kick off the season in the form of controllable SP (or a discount from the big 3), otherwise IMO it was just dumb. Doesn't mean I won't pull for Lo the next 5 years wholeheartedly though.

[badger3034]

Neither Cain nor Yelich were on sale. We paid full retail for them.

 

Now we the fan base would like to know why if there isn't a follow through.

 

Let me clarify. Yelich was "on sale" because if the Marlins weren't a joke of a baseball franchise he would have never been on the market to begin with period. end of story there.

 

I think we paid slightly under retail for Yelich in terms of what we value... gave up a few bats that are very high risk/reward and a meh pitching prospect. None of what Stearns gave up fits his "mold" we think he is using of OBP.

 

Cain on the other hand I agree fully, and really don't know why we did it, makes absolutely zero sense to me without a domino to fall after it. I have to believe there is still one coming here at some point before we kick off the season in the form of controllable SP (or a discount from the big 3), otherwise IMO it was just dumb. Doesn't mean I won't pull for Lo the next 5 years wholeheartedly though.

 

To me, if you have the chance to sign a player like a Cain, you jump at it. I don't think any team in baseball is going to complain about having an excess of depth at a specific position(s). Cain is a really good player, just as the other 3 outfielders are, don't kid yourself into thinking that you'd rather have Phillips playing over any of Cain, Yelich, Braun or Santana. I love Phillips as a 4th outfielder, but it's possible he won't get that opportunity this year, and that's okay. Thus far he's having a pretty awful spring, and it may be okay to give him some more time in the minors. As far as Santana goes, I'm not gonna complain if I have that much talent in my outfield, at least offensively speaking. This will give Braun more time resting and keeping him on the field healthy more frequently. In the past, I was somewhat annoyed with how frequently Braun would have to take days off due to injury, no fault of his own obviously. Now when Braunny has to take a break, you're not sacrificing anything offensively, their Yelich/Cain/Santana/Perez will be able to handle the outfield duties pretty handily when he has to take a few days off.

[brewerfan82]

I have zero sources but I find it is inconceivable that they don't end up with on of the 3 pitchers. We can find something to occupy our time until then.

 

They absolutely would not have picked up those outfielders otherwise.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

Sorry, can't get past this. What do you think this word means? Seems like he's using the word in proper context.

 

[MrTPlush]

Totally, that is the mystery. I just wouldn't assume we have set our price on all these pitchers and won't make an "overpay" suddenly. We could still be in the cat and mouse stage where we are trying to get a deal or below what we think their impact is worth. Maybe we think Cobb is worth 4/$65mil, but of course we would love to pay less. End of spring training maybe that isn't possible and it goes up.

 

Yep, and right now it seems that the Brewers have the leverage advantage, as there just doesn't seem to be a ton of interest in these guys at the numbers they are looking for. While it's frustrating for us as fans to wait, it makes really solid business sense for Stearns and the Brewers to draw a line in the sand and not cross it. I suppose it is also giving them the chance to really take a look at the starting pitching depth (or lack thereof) that they really have.

 

Agreed. It should be interesting to see where things end up. There are many times where we think a player is going to take a big discount because the market is dead and suddenly they get the full market value we always thought they were going to get.

 

At this point Cobb probably doesn’t have a lot to lose. The deal he can get now is probably not going to change before the end of the month. However maybe someone gets injured and he can capitalize on it. Who knows...guess we will see.

[Boomer5]

Neither Cain nor Yelich were on sale. We paid full retail for them.

 

Now we the fan base would like to know why if there isn't a follow through.

 

Let me clarify. Yelich was "on sale" because if the Marlins weren't a joke of a baseball franchise he would have never been on the market to begin with period. end of story there.

 

I think we paid slightly under retail for Yelich in terms of what we value... gave up a few bats that are very high risk/reward and a meh pitching prospect. None of what Stearns gave up fits his "mold" we think he is using of OBP.

 

Cain on the other hand I agree fully, and really don't know why we did it, makes absolutely zero sense to me without a domino to fall after it. I have to believe there is still one coming here at some point before we kick off the season in the form of controllable SP (or a discount from the big 3), otherwise IMO it was just dumb. Doesn't mean I won't pull for Lo the next 5 years wholeheartedly though.

 

I like Yelich but his value is really in his contract and his ability to play a good LF. Which also happens to be the only position that Braun can semi effectively play. Yelich loses a lot of value if he has to play CF and especially RF. I like him a lot as a hitter of course as he has a high OBA and isnt one of Stearns brigade of swing at everything sort of player he kept trotting out.

 

Cain is a guy all of us like of course. I don't mind adding him, but his value is really tied heavily to his WAR calculations and it seems there is a real glitch when it comes to OF. We all love GoGo but do we really think he was a 7.4 WAR guy in 2013? Jason Heyward is the poster boy for the inflated OF WAR.

 

Cain comes accross as a really solid player who like Yelich will get on base and be a professional hitter which was badly needed. In the NL we finished first in HR and SB while being 10th in runs scored. I wonder if that has ever happened before?

 

Neither player is all that spectacular but they do add OBA and limited strikeouts. Both play solid D as long as they are slotted in their proper positions. I really like both players but both came at a very large cost and even adding both doesn't put us in the serious WS discussion. Yet.......

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I have zero sources but I find it is inconceivable that they don't end up with on of the 3 pitchers. We can find something to occupy our time until then.

 

They absolutely would not have picked up those outfielders otherwise.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

A+ reference, Senior Montoya. Bravo!