Alex Cobb (Part 2)

[Warning Track Power]

yall are nuts for trying to pick apart someones posts like this. just let it go.

Amen

[bill hAll Star]

For Cobb - Just Offer 3/45 - with opt out after yr 1 and TO after yr 2

 

He probably would have a higher bidder.

[3and2Fastball]

Back to Baseball: it has been a fascinating offseason. Maybe it'll turn out that acquiring Yelich & Cain were just a continuing part of the longterm rebuild. It sure makes sense, to me, to spend $$$ on Cobb + and go for it, and I certainly don't see how spending $$$ on pitching would jeopardize our future.

 

I do trust in Stearns, and it is likely he really values our MiLB Pitching.

[82brewcrew82]

Agreed. My expectations have lowered because I'm not expecting any more significant additions. However, I do trust Stearns and if he says the deals aren't there then they weren't there.

[3and2Fastball]

There are a ton of analytics in place projecting Burnes' production, for instance, over the next 6-7 years within the Brewers front office I'm sure. And they are cross referencing that with cost analysis of free agent pitchers. There also might be preliminary deals in place for Stroman and or Archer for the trade deadline...

[DR28]

I really hope HH was legit on us adding Cobb...

 

Adding him we would have...

 

Nelson #18 overall 3.3 WAR

Anderson #24 overall 4.1 WAR

Davies #30 overall 2.9 WAR

Cobb #32 overall 2.4 WAR

Chacin #56 overall 2.4 WAR

 

That is a very, very solid rotation.

[Dadbauer]

I really hope HH was legit on us adding Cobb...

 

Adding him we would have...

 

Nelson #18 overall 3.3 WAR

Anderson #24 overall 4.1 WAR

Davies #30 overall 2.9 WAR

Cobb #32 overall 2.4 WAR

Chacin #56 overall 2.4 WAR

 

That is a very, very solid rotation.

 

I have a hard time expecting much of anything out of Nelson upon return - he was GREAT last year, but I have serious doubts after this injury that he will get back to that level. Anything he does provide is gravy, but we cannot bank on him being the ace he was last year.

[KeithStone53151]

I really hope HH was legit on us adding Cobb...

 

Adding him we would have...

 

Nelson #18 overall 3.3 WAR

Anderson #24 overall 4.1 WAR

Davies #30 overall 2.9 WAR

Cobb #32 overall 2.4 WAR

Chacin #56 overall 2.4 WAR

 

That is a very, very solid rotation.

 

I have a hard time expecting much of anything out of Nelson upon return - he was GREAT last year, but I have serious doubts after this injury that he will get back to that level. Anything he does provide is gravy, but we cannot bank on him being the ace he was last year.

 

Nobody in baseball works harder than Jimmy. If anyone is coming back from that injury, it's him. I'm sure the Brewers are in a better position than we are to determine whether Jimmy can return to his same form or not. Maybe part of the reason we haven't made a significant move is that Jimmy looks fantastic to this point and has a chance to get back sometime in May.

[TJH123]

In addition to Nelson being out probably about 1/3 of the season and then probably not being as good as he was last year, Anderson and Davies had career years and could easily regress as well. Neither of them had full seasons as good as last year before.

[KeithStone53151]

In addition to Nelson being out probably about 1/3 of the season and then probably not being as good as he was last year, Anderson and Davies had career years and could easily regress as well. Neither of them had full seasons as good as last year before.

 

Anderson yes, DAvies ERA the last 3 years was 3.71, 3.97, 3.90. Not sure you'd call any of those a "career year". His FIP was actually the worst of his career last year at 4.22. He seems better than his end results indicate because of his dreadful April.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

We shouldn’t expect anything out of Jimmy. Shoulder/labrum injuries are the kiss of death for most pitchers, even if they come back they usually aren’t the same. I think Davies is a FIP beater and he’s a solid anchor for a 3.7-4.1 era, which every rotation needs, his ceiling is probably last year but his floor isn’t all that far off assuming health. Idk what to make of Anderson and I also agree he’s a prime regression candidate, already 30, history of injuries, never even close to 170 innings let alone 200, he added 2 MPH across the board on all his pitches last year which who knows if that stays (especially if he finally does stay healthy and hits an all time innings high). We need more pitching badly. If we go in the season with the current options I could see it hard for us to hit much more than 80 wins, no matter how much we’ll hit.

[pacopete4]

We shouldn’t expect anything out of Jimmy. Shoulder/labrum injuries are the kiss of death for most pitchers, even if they come back they usually aren’t the same.

Someone around here mentioned in a post awhile back that a labrum injury the way he hurt it or that it was a different type of labrum injury that is different than if he hurt it while throwing. Hope that made sense and I wish I remember who posted it. I mean the fact that Jimmy is already throwing is an indicator that it might be healing and maybe not as bad as originally thought to be.

[brewmann04]

the FO has to be smart enough not t put all their eggs in one basket and hope Jimmy returns 100 Healthy

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

We shouldn’t expect anything out of Jimmy. Shoulder/labrum injuries are the kiss of death for most pitchers, even if they come back they usually aren’t the same.

Someone around here mentioned in a post awhile back that a labrum injury the way he hurt it or that it was a different type of labrum injury that is different than if he hurt it while throwing. Hope that made sense and I wish I remember who posted it. I mean the fact that Jimmy is already throwing is an indicator that it might be healing and maybe not as bad as originally thought to be.

Fair enough, but I mean Mark Prior use to always “be throwing” and “looking good” “feeling good” coming back from shoulder stuff and then he never did.

 

And his initial shoulder injury was of the non-throwing type. It was a collision with Marcus Giles and 2B that flipped him and he landed on his shoulder.

[benji]

That was me. I am sports medicine trained orthopedic surgeon.

[pacopete4]

That was me. I am sports medicine trained orthopedic surgeon.

Could you elaborate on what you said about it? I probably butchered it a bit.

[jonescm128]

We shouldn’t expect anything out of Jimmy. Shoulder/labrum injuries are the kiss of death for most pitchers, even if they come back they usually aren’t the same.

Someone around here mentioned in a post awhile back that a labrum injury the way he hurt it or that it was a different type of labrum injury that is different than if he hurt it while throwing. Hope that made sense and I wish I remember who posted it. I mean the fact that Jimmy is already throwing is an indicator that it might be healing and maybe not as bad as originally thought to be.

 

 

I posted something like that in brewcrewball.com. I was a closer and played OF in college and I did the same thing Jimmy did. I dove for a ball and jammed by elbow into the ground and tore the front labrum. I had surgery mid-season and it revealed a torn RC as well. Rehab is long and slow but I was back to pitching the next year. Same velocity as before. Now, I was 20 years old, only throwing upper 80s consistently, and was not facing major league competition by any means, but it does speak to the ability to get back to where you were before. He has much better trainers and is probably working way harder to get back than I did so I have faith.

 

It should be important to note that this is a bankart tear caused by an acute, trauma related incident. It is not a tear due to overuse where the labrum simply wears down. His velocity should be fine. It's a matter of building stamina, finding control, and trusting your mechanics

[benji]

When pitchers typically have labral issues it usually refers to the SLAP (Superior Labrum Anterior Posterior). One of the biceps attachments is to this part of the labrum. During throwing mechanics the biceps is very important in the deceleration phase of a pitch. (https://www.physio-pedia.com/Throwing_Biomechanics) Link is a very good explanation. When the biceps is injured, SLAP tear occurs or Rotator Cuff torn it is very difficult to fully recover and be an elite thrower again. There are a lot reasons why and it is very complex. We probably are not good yet perfecting the repair for throwers.

 

Nelson's injury did not involve that area according to reports. His was a bankart tear which is the anterior inferior labrum. This is injured during a shoulder dislocation. This can be repaired and since no major muscle attaches here it should (in theory) not effect his throwing mechanics in the same way. I predicted June as a good timeline for his return and it sounds like that is the Brewer's goal as well. The biggest concern with this surgery is that his shoulder was not tightened up too much with the repair. As long as he regains his full range of motion and full rotator cuff strength, he should be able to return. Hopefully it will be to his elite level he had last year. It would be a huge boost to team in June/July.

[pacopete4]

Thank you for that, much appreciated.

[jonescm128]

We shouldn’t expect anything out of Jimmy. Shoulder/labrum injuries are the kiss of death for most pitchers, even if they come back they usually aren’t the same.

Someone around here mentioned in a post awhile back that a labrum injury the way he hurt it or that it was a different type of labrum injury that is different than if he hurt it while throwing. Hope that made sense and I wish I remember who posted it. I mean the fact that Jimmy is already throwing is an indicator that it might be healing and maybe not as bad as originally thought to be.

 

 

I posted something like that in brewcrewball.com. I was a closer and played OF in college and I did the same thing Jimmy did. I dove for a ball and jammed by elbow into the ground and tore the front labrum. I had surgery mid-season and it revealed a torn RC as well. Rehab is long and slow but I was back to pitching the next year. Same velocity as before. Now, I was 20 years old, only throwing upper 80s consistently, and was not facing major league competition by any means, but it does speak to the ability to get back to where you were before. He has much better trainers and is probably working way harder to get back than I did so I have faith.

 

It should be important to note that this is a bankart tear caused by an acute, trauma related incident. It is not a tear due to overuse where the labrum simply wears down. His velocity should be fine. It's a matter of building stamina, finding control, and trusting your mechanics

 

or we can just listen to the orthopedic surgeon above

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

Thank you for the info and that certainly is promising. I just have my doubts (even though it's not the same as usual for pitchers) that he ever comes back as good as he was last year given shoulder injury history with pitchers.

[3and2Fastball]

Thanks Benji for that post....fingers crossed. Jimmy is an easy player to root for

[benji]

As soon as the injury happened I did a literature search on professional pitchers and bankart injuries. I did not find much if at all published. I personally have not had to fix one in a high level thrower. Bottom line is there isnt much data to predict how he will do.

[82brewcrew82]

When pitchers typically have labral issues it usually refers to the SLAP (Superior Labrum Anterior Posterior). One of the biceps attachments is to this part of the labrum. During throwing mechanics the biceps is very important in the deceleration phase of a pitch. (https://www.physio-pedia.com/Throwing_Biomechanics) Link is a very good explanation. When the biceps is injured, SLAP tear occurs or Rotator Cuff torn it is very difficult to fully recover and be an elite thrower again. There are a lot reasons why and it is very complex. We probably are not good yet perfecting the repair for throwers.

 

Nelson's injury did not involve that area according to reports. His was a bankart tear which is the anterior inferior labrum. This is injured during a shoulder dislocation. This can be repaired and since no major muscle attaches here it should (in theory) not effect his throwing mechanics in the same way. I predicted June as a good timeline for his return and it sounds like that is the Brewer's goal as well. The biggest concern with this surgery is that his shoulder was not tightened up too much with the repair. As long as he regains his full range of motion and full rotator cuff strength, he should be able to return. Hopefully it will be to his elite level he had last year. It would be a huge boost to team in June/July.

Thank you Benji. Great write up and probably has me more optimistic than at any point since the injury. Still not holding my breath though.

[TooLiveBrew]

Thank you for that, much appreciated.

Seconded/Fourthed/Whatevered

 

benji, please post as much as you're able to about injuries & rehab. I think it's fascinating, and since basically all reporting on injuries in sports is from sportwriters -- who mean well -- as a fan you typically just don't get very complete or useful information.