Alex Cobb (Part 2)

[Boomer5]

The Brewers are not a young team. Right now they look like a solid WC contender but not a WS caliber team. If that was the intent then fine, but I highly doubt that was the case.

[superfly]

The Brewers are not a young team. Right now they look like a solid WC contender but not a WS caliber team. If that was the intent then fine, but I highly doubt that was the case.

 

Not young, but they are a "cheap" team. Shaw, Villar, Arcia, Thames, Pina, Santana etc are all making peanuts with several years of control with guys in the pitching and position ranks like Phillips/Burnes waiting in the wings to step forward.

[sveumrules]

I'm not saying Stearns is wrong for not signing a pitcher. I'm just saying it is what it is which isn't good enough.

 

It certainly is what it is, I'd never propose it is what it isn't.

 

The thing is though it's only March 7th & we won't really know what it is until September 30th. It might not be good enough, it might be plenty.

 

Coming into last season the prevailing sentiment would have been what we had wasn't good enough. It ended up being far better than most expected.

 

Last spring our rotation options lined up something like Guerra, Davies, Peralta, Anderson, Nelson, Garza, Millone, Woodruff, Suter.

 

This spring it is something like Anderson, Davies, Chacin, Woodruff, Miley, Guerra, Suter, Nelson, Burnes.

 

Looking at those names I believe our starting pitching depth is better now than it was a year ago.

[Fear The Chorizo]

not particularly young in terms of age, but the roster is highly controlled in terms of both arbitration status and veteran contract terms. And, the overall depth of this organization is light years ahead of where it was 2-3 seasons ago when stearns took over.

[pacopete4]

The Brewers are not a young team. Right now they look like a solid WC contender but not a WS caliber team. If that was the intent then fine, but I highly doubt that was the case.

 

Last year they were the 8th youngest team in all of baseball at 27.9 years of age. That will tick up a bit this season with the additions of Cain and Chacin, as well as everyone getting a year older but it still probably puts us right around the middle of the pack. Either way, it feels as though Stearns has done a good job of mixing veterans with younger players. You can't have too many of either or it doesn't work.

[82brewcrew82]

Coming into last season the prevailing sentiment would have been what we had wasn't good enough. It ended up being far better than most expected.

OK, they performed better than expected. It still wasn't good enough and the significant contributor to "better than expected" isn't on the team.

[Boomer5]

I'm not saying Stearns is wrong for not signing a pitcher. I'm just saying it is what it is which isn't good enough.

 

It certainly is what it is, I'd never propose it is what it isn't.

 

The thing is though it's only March 7th & we won't really know what it is until September 30th. It might not be good enough, it might be plenty.

 

Coming into last season the prevailing sentiment would have been what we had wasn't good enough. It ended up being far better than most expected.

 

Last spring our rotation options lined up something like Guerra, Davies, Peralta, Anderson, Nelson, Garza, Millone, Woodruff, Suter.

 

This spring it is something like Anderson, Davies, Chacin, Woodruff, Miley, Guerra, Suter, Nelson, Burnes.

 

Looking at those names I believe our starting pitching depth is better now than it was a year ago.

 

The start of 2017 looked pretty decent at the time. Most thought Junior was a solid starter. A year later not so much. Really we just swapped out Nelson for Chacin and Garza for Yo, and Milone for Miley.

 

We really don't what we have now and possible DJ can work some miracles, but there isn't much to suggest this is a WS rotation.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I think the Brewer staff is getting sold short big time and as fans we always want to win now. The Yelich Cain signings have gives us a 5 year window , how many spots do we really have open offensively for the foreseeable future? Maybe DS didn't get the big time pitching we all wanted this off-season but what if he's able to add during the season or next off season. Maybe Santana adds to his value. Maybe a prospect explodes and we can use him in a trade. and we have 3 prospects very close to the majors and expected to have an impact (Huira, Burnes and Peralta).

 

I don't think the 5 year plan for the Brewers has looked this bright since the late 70's. Enjoy the ride boardmates!!!

[A Swing and A Drive]

I also have faith in Stearns long term.

 

However, I questioned his lack of trade deadline moves last season when the Brewers were sitting in 1st place at the ALL-STAR break(a rarity BTW).

 

I'll wait until March 28th to further "question" Stearns plan for the 2018 season, but if the most recent quotes from him are at face value, I'm VERY concerned for Brewers status as likely playoff contenders for 2018.

 

My point is that it sure seems that Stearns have been given "deity" status already and I don't think he's earned that yet.

[Boomer5]

I also have faith in Stearns long term.

 

However, I questioned his lack of trade deadline moves last season when the Brewers were sitting in 1st place at the ALL-STAR break(a rarity BTW).

 

I'll wait until March 28th to further "question" Stearns plan for the 2018 season, but if the most recent quotes from him are at face value, I'm VERY concerned for Brewers status as likely playoff contenders for 2018.

 

My point is that it sure seems that Stearns have been given "deity" status already and I don't think he's earned that yet.

 

Like the Cardinals under Tony and Duncan, the stars of the Brewers are CC and DJ.

[pacopete4]

I also have faith in Stearns long term.

 

However, I questioned his lack of trade deadline moves last season when the Brewers were sitting in 1st place at the ALL-STAR break(a rarity BTW).

 

I'll wait until March 28th to further "question" Stearns plan for the 2018 season, but if the most recent quotes from him are at face value, I'm VERY concerned for Brewers status as likely playoff contenders for 2018.

 

My point is that it sure seems that Stearns have been given "deity" status already and I don't think he's earned that yet.

 

How did the Brewers get to that first place standing through the all start break again? Oh yeah, by the crafty moves Stearns made in a two-year rebuild that most said would take five. "Deity" status? No, it's about the realization that his job is tough and that so far, he has put us in a good position to compete for a playoff spot. Can/will he make a move to push us over the top at some point, we will have to wait to find out but the rest of this complaining is just that.

[MrTPlush]

This rotation is not being sold short at all. It is made up of guys coming off career years(with little track record of success) and guys either coming off terrible years, injury, or have no track record.

 

You can make an argument for any of those 5 guys to be good this year, but for all 5 or even 3 of them is not very good odds. We are really depending on Anderson/Chacin/Davies to have similar or better years. If one flops or declines significantly we are likely in big trouble.

 

Not saying they all won’t have good years, they could, but it would take a lot of things going our/their way.

[brewmann04]

This rotation is not being sold short at all. It is made up of guys coming off career years(with little track record of success) and guys either coming off terrible years, injury, or have no track record.

 

You can make an argument for any of those 5 guys to be good this year, but for all 5 or even 3 of them is not very good odds. We are really depending on Anderson/Chacin/Davies to have similar or better years. If one flops or declines significantly we are likely in big trouble.

 

Not saying they all won’t have good years, they could, but it would take a lot of things going our/their way.

 

 

very much agree and add they have not replaced Nelson spot as of yet and that is a big issue

[pacopete4]

 

very much agree and add they have not replaced Nelson spot as of yet and that is a big issue

 

Jhoulys Chacin was added.

[82brewcrew82]

 

very much agree and add they have not replaced Nelson spot as of yet and that is a big issue

 

Jhoulys Chacin was added.

Chacin will help improve on some of the dreck that was in the rotation to start last year but he will not replace what Nelson did last year.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

very much agree and add they have not replaced Nelson spot as of yet and that is a big issue

 

Jhoulys Chacin was added.

 

I think Chacin is more of a Garza replacement than a Nelson replacement. I know, a rotation spot is a rotation spot, but a healthy Nelson is a #1-#2 guy, while I'd consider a good Chacin more of a #3-#4 in a good rotation.

 

Of course, Chacin could be holding down the #2 spot, depending on how this works out:

 

Yes, they say only a couple days, but oblique issues are scary for pitchers, especially when you look at how much time Anderson missed with one last year. If this lingers, I wonder if it may be the impetus to getting Cobb's agent on the phone? I have a feeling he's still the team's top choice of the big 3, when value and projected contracts are taken into account.

[82brewcrew82]

 

very much agree and add they have not replaced Nelson spot as of yet and that is a big issue

 

Jhoulys Chacin was added.

 

I think Chacin is more of a Garza replacement than a Nelson replacement. I know, a rotation spot is a rotation spot, but a healthy Nelson is a #1-#2 guy, while I'd consider a good Chacin more of a #3-#4 in a good rotation.

 

Of course, Chacin could be holding down the #2 spot, depending on how this works out:

 

Yes, they say only a couple days, but oblique issues are scary for pitchers, especially when you look at how much time Anderson missed with one last year. If this lingers, I wonder if it may be the impetus to getting Cobb's agent on the phone? I have a feeling he's still the team's top choice of the big 3, when value and projected contracts are taken into account.

And so it begins. The house of cards begins to crumble......potentially.

[pacopete4]

I think Chacin is more of a Garza replacement than a Nelson replacement. I know, a rotation spot is a rotation spot, but a healthy Nelson is a #1-#2 guy, while I'd consider a good Chacin more of a #3-#4 in a good rotation.

 

You wouldn't have said that about Nelson a year ago most likely. Nelson's career numbers are very close to what Chacin's numbers are for his career as well. We most likely won't have an "ace" pitcher on our team (and we wouldn't with signing Cobb or Arrieta either) but we can have a bunch of guys pitch pretty well and we can be successful. I expect guys like Anderson, Davies, Chacin to have an ERA below 4 and I think the Brewers do as well. If they can do that, we will have similar output from our starters that we did a year ago. With adding Jimmy back in the mix as well towards June-July and possibly getting more out of Guerra, Woodruff, Miley, etc... it is not all doom and gloom to me.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think Chacin is more of a Garza replacement than a Nelson replacement. I know, a rotation spot is a rotation spot, but a healthy Nelson is a #1-#2 guy, while I'd consider a good Chacin more of a #3-#4 in a good rotation.

 

You wouldn't have said that about Nelson a year ago most likely. Nelson's career numbers are very close to what Chacin's numbers are for his career as well. We most likely won't have an "ace" pitcher on our team (and we wouldn't with signing Cobb or Arrieta either) but we can have a bunch of guys pitch pretty well and we can be successful. I expect guys like Anderson, Davies, Chacin to have an ERA below 4 and I think the Brewers do as well. If they can do that, we will have similar output from our starters that we did a year ago. With adding Jimmy back in the mix as well towards June-July and possibly getting more out of Guerra, Woodruff, Miley, etc... it is not all doom and gloom to me.

 

Me too. I really like the pitching staff they've manage to assemble. Getting Anderson from the D-Backs and Davies from the Orioles was genius. I think Chacin is likely to have an ERA below 4 as well. I mean, if he could do it in Colorado, he should be able to do it in Miller Park. He may end up being the shrewdest move Stearns made this offseason. I also really like Woodruff as a potential "lite" version of Nelson.

 

What worries me is that the rotation's success is just based on too many "ifs" right now to feel super comfortable. I'm not advocating to blow the budget out of the water to fortify it, but I truly believe at this point that Cobb can be signed to a deal that wouldn't do that.

[pacopete4]

I think Chacin is more of a Garza replacement than a Nelson replacement. I know, a rotation spot is a rotation spot, but a healthy Nelson is a #1-#2 guy, while I'd consider a good Chacin more of a #3-#4 in a good rotation.

 

You wouldn't have said that about Nelson a year ago most likely. Nelson's career numbers are very close to what Chacin's numbers are for his career as well. We most likely won't have an "ace" pitcher on our team (and we wouldn't with signing Cobb or Arrieta either) but we can have a bunch of guys pitch pretty well and we can be successful. I expect guys like Anderson, Davies, Chacin to have an ERA below 4 and I think the Brewers do as well. If they can do that, we will have similar output from our starters that we did a year ago. With adding Jimmy back in the mix as well towards June-July and possibly getting more out of Guerra, Woodruff, Miley, etc... it is not all doom and gloom to me.

 

Me too. I really like the pitching staff they've manage to assemble. Getting Anderson from the D-Backs and Davies from the Orioles was genius. I think Chacin is likely to have an ERA below 4 as well. I mean, if he could do it in Colorado, he should be able to do it in Miller Park. He may end up being the shrewdest move Stearns made this offseason. I also really like Woodruff as a potential "lite" version of Nelson.

 

What worries me is that the rotation's success is just based on too many "ifs" right now to feel super comfortable. I'm not advocating to blow the budget out of the water to fortify it, but I truly believe at this point that Cobb can be signed to a deal that wouldn't do that.

 

Yes, our success this year is depending on a lot of variables in that rotation as well as bullpen (maybe to a lesser degree) but that is not very uncommon for most franchises. I also think we make this conclusion too early as there still are FA's out there as well as roster cutdown time may leave us another Stearns move that has us all applauding midseason. (The Davies oblique scares me too but maybe it triggers a move to be made?)

[DR28]

Of course, Chacin could be holding down the #2 spot, depending on how this works out:

 

Yes, they say only a couple days, but oblique issues are scary for pitchers, especially when you look at how much time Anderson missed with one last year. If this lingers, I wonder if it may be the impetus to getting Cobb's agent on the phone? I have a feeling he's still the team's top choice of the big 3, when value and projected contracts are taken into account.

And so it begins. The house of cards begins to crumble......potentially.

 

And here we go, injuries starting now... If this is gonna be a lingering issue, this better push the needle towards getting Cobb added!

[Warning Track Power]

Put this in the Spring Training Thread too but wanted to post here as well:

 

If the possibility of having 2 of Woodruff, Suter, Guerra, Miley, Gallardo in the rotation didn't push the needle to sign Cobb or Arrieta, then I don't think the idea of having 3 of them will push it either.

[82brewcrew82]

Is it possible that they want to see this group of retreads and youngsters pitch and be absolutely sure they can't handle it before they make a move. It just seems odd to me that they haven't added a better arm.

[DR28]

Put this in the Spring Training Thread as well but wanted to post here as well:

 

If the possibility of having 2 of Woodruff, Suter, Guerra, Miley, Gallardo in the rotation didn't push the needle to sign Cobb or Arrieta, then I don't think the idea of having 3 of them will push it either.

 

 

We'll be out of the WC race way before September then.

 

Such a shame with the Offense we're gonna have.

[pacopete4]

We'll be out of the WC race way before September then.

 

Such a shame with the Offense we're gonna have.

What did you say a year ago when they entered the 2017 season with:

 

1. Guerra

2. Peralta

3. Nelson

4. Davies

5. Anderson

DL- Garza