Broxton getting more interest than Santana?

[Boomer5]

I also feel that Broxton is worth more than some are thinking. I think at least Top 30 prospect and another high upside guy would be coming back. Broxton is cheap, provides good power and defense, and has an option. That's worth more than a couple of 17 year old DSL kids.

 

Are we talking about the same Broxton?

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9253&position=OF

[adambr2]

I also feel that Broxton is worth more than some are thinking. I think at least Top 30 prospect and another high upside guy would be coming back. Broxton is cheap, provides good power and defense, and has an option. That's worth more than a couple of 17 year old DSL kids.

 

Are we talking about the same Broxton?

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9253&position=OF

 

You'll notice he was an excellent player in 2016, over 2 WAR in only 244 PAs. Without exaggerating he was our best overall player in 2016 from late July until the end of the season.

 

I wonder why some seem to assume Villar will bounce back, but also assume Broxton just is who he was last year.

 

Broxton probably isn't long for the Brewers any more simply because we're out of room for him now, but he is someone I could easily becoming a 25/25 player with a rebuilding club if he gets a full time gig in CF. If he could cut his K rate even to 30% he could be very good.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I also feel that Broxton is worth more than some are thinking. I think at least Top 30 prospect and another high upside guy would be coming back. Broxton is cheap, provides good power and defense, and has an option. That's worth more than a couple of 17 year old DSL kids.

 

Are we talking about the same Broxton?

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9253&position=OF

 

Yes we are.

[badger3034]

I also feel that Broxton is worth more than some are thinking. I think at least Top 30 prospect and another high upside guy would be coming back. Broxton is cheap, provides good power and defense, and has an option. That's worth more than a couple of 17 year old DSL kids.

 

Are we talking about the same Broxton?

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9253&position=OF

 

You'll notice he was an excellent player in 2016, over 2 WAR in only 244 PAs. Without exaggerating he was our best overall player in 2016 from late July until the end of the season.

 

I wonder why some seem to assume Villar will bounce back, but also assume Broxton just is who he was last year.

 

Broxton probably isn't long for the Brewers any more simply because we're out of room for him now, but he is someone I could easily becoming a 25/25 player with a rebuilding club if he gets a full time gig in CF. If he could cut his K rate even to 30% he could be very good.

 

I find it hard to believe that Broxton will ever cut down his K's. The guy can't hit the ball. I'm sure there have to be at least 25-30 CF's better in the majors right now than Broxton. I don't want to see the guy on our big league squad ever again honestly. I really don't think he was very good defensively, stats aside. To put in perspective, I think I'd rather see Hernan Perez as an everyday CF than Keon Broxton.

[CheezWizHed]

I find it hard to believe that Broxton will ever cut down his K's. The guy can't hit the ball. I'm sure there have to be at least 25-30 CF's better in the majors right now than Broxton. I don't want to see the guy on our big league squad ever again honestly. I really don't think he was very good defensively, stats aside. To put in perspective, I think I'd rather see Hernan Perez as an everyday CF than Keon Broxton.

 

But those numbers (25-30 CFs) mean that he is a MLB starting caliber player as he can start with 5 teams. Most of the trades are for lower end players, so its not like people are treating him like an all-star. He is what he is... he has some decent qualities as a players and some deficiencies. He can fill a gap (as he did for us), but is a guy you want to replace.

[badger3034]

I find it hard to believe that Broxton will ever cut down his K's. The guy can't hit the ball. I'm sure there have to be at least 25-30 CF's better in the majors right now than Broxton. I don't want to see the guy on our big league squad ever again honestly. I really don't think he was very good defensively, stats aside. To put in perspective, I think I'd rather see Hernan Perez as an everyday CF than Keon Broxton.

 

But those numbers (25-30 CFs) mean that he is a MLB starting caliber player as he can start with 5 teams. Most of the trades are for lower end players, so its not like people are treating him like an all-star. He is what he is... he has some decent qualities as a players and some deficiencies. He can fill a gap (as he did for us), but is a guy you want to replace.

 

If you can get anything for Broxton, do it. You probably won't see that player(s) in the majors in their career, but that's okay, because you're clear of Broxton. I wouldn't dilly dally around with a trade revolving around the guy, just get what you can get. I didn't think people are treating him as an all-star, but people are over valuing Haudricourts tweet that he has more trade value than Santana I think. Broxton isn't worth much, which is why he is garnering more attention. The Brewers are valuing Santana higher than what other clubs are, which is why he isn't garnering as much attention, I think that should be pretty obvious

[MadThinker88]

I think we can agree that when Adam Lind was dealt to Seattle in Dec 2015, he brought back 3 lotto tickets. The Seattle system was ranked 24th going into that year by BA. Lets examine those 3 players to get a better idea of what they were at that time..

 

Of those 3 guys acquired, only 1 - Freddy Peralta (age 19) was ranked in the Seattle system top 30 (#24 in the 2015 book). Up to that point he had not appeared in full season minor league ball. The 2nd guy - Daniel Missaki (also age 19) had appeared in the the Midwest league but only for 6 appearances and 34 IP. It seems he has not played since then. Daniel was not in the BA top 30 but he had been listed on the depth chart in the book. The 3rd guy - Carlos Herrera had just turned 18 after the 2015 season ended & had not gotten stateside yet. He was not in the BA book at all.

 

 

Now I can recognize fans wanting to get something of value back for Keon. It makes sense. No one would give up something of value for "nothing". That said the exact value of Keon is not known by fans and just because the Brewers value Keon at 1 level/ cost does not mean other clubs see Keon the same way. Most might seem him a lower cost (compared to Domingo Santana) and are doing their due diligence & research. Maybe some other club views Keon at an even higher level compared to the Brewers. That will be the club DStearns makes a deal with (& we will applauded DS for the deal). It is also possible that (like Domingo IMHO) Keon has the most value to the Brewers and a trade will not materialize, despite fans wanting the Brewers to improve themselves.

 

As fans we need to trust DS doing his job and we will see how it all turns out..

[HighHeat19]

"Go west young man haven't you been told, California's full of women whiskey and gold." - Toby Keith

[brewerfan82]

If you can get anything for Broxton, do it. You probably won't see that player(s) in the majors in their career, but that's okay, because you're clear of Broxton. I wouldn't dilly dally around with a trade revolving around the guy, just get what you can get. I didn't think people are treating him as an all-star, but people are over valuing Haudricourts tweet that he has more trade value than Santana I think. Broxton isn't worth much, which is why he is garnering more attention. The Brewers are valuing Santana higher than what other clubs are, which is why he isn't garnering as much attention, I think that should be pretty obvious

Luckily not everyone views him as lowly as you do. Yes, he has a high strikeout rate and a low OBP, but despite your opinion on his defense, most think he is a very good centerfielder and in just over a season's worth of at bats in his career, he has 29 homers and 45 stolen bases. That's a pretty rare combo these days and someone has a chance of catching Carlos Gomez: Part 2 for a couple years if they give him a chance to start full time.

 

I actually like him quite a bit as a 4th/5th outfielder on this team (depending on what happens with the whole Santana/Braun situation), but he should be more valuable for a rebuilding team that can take a chance on him as a starter. He still doesn't hit arbitration for another two years and has five years of control left overall. There should be quite a bit of value in that and I definitely wouldn't want to just give him away, but if someone gives up something that has the potential to be valuable on the MLB team someday it should definitely be considered, in which case Phillips slides into that 4th/5th outfielder role perfectly as well.

 

As a sidenote, I haven't seen anyone interpret the Haudricourt tweet as if Broxton is *worth* more than Santana, just that more teams are interested, in part due to the fact that he would come cheaper.

[badger3034]

If you can get anything for Broxton, do it. You probably won't see that player(s) in the majors in their career, but that's okay, because you're clear of Broxton. I wouldn't dilly dally around with a trade revolving around the guy, just get what you can get. I didn't think people are treating him as an all-star, but people are over valuing Haudricourts tweet that he has more trade value than Santana I think. Broxton isn't worth much, which is why he is garnering more attention. The Brewers are valuing Santana higher than what other clubs are, which is why he isn't garnering as much attention, I think that should be pretty obvious

Luckily not everyone views him as lowly as you do. Yes, he has a high strikeout rate and a low OBP, but despite your opinion on his defense, most think he is a very good centerfielder and in just over a season's worth of at bats in his career, he has 29 homers and 45 stolen bases. That's a pretty rare combo these days and someone has a chance of catching Carlos Gomez: Part 2 for a couple years if they give him a chance to start full time.

 

I actually like him quite a bit as a 4th/5th outfielder on this team (depending on what happens with the whole Santana/Braun situation), but he should be more valuable for a rebuilding team that can take a chance on him as a starter. He still doesn't hit arbitration for another two years and has five years of control left overall. There should be quite a bit of value in that and I definitely wouldn't want to just give him away, but if someone gives up something that has the potential to be valuable on the MLB team someday it should definitely be considered, in which case Phillips slides into that 4th/5th outfielder role perfectly as well.

 

As a sidenote, I haven't seen anyone interpret the Haudricourt tweet as if Broxton is *worth* more than Santana, just that more teams are interested, in part due to the fact that he would come cheaper.

 

People on this forum bash Villar, who has had a good season in his career, but then praise Broxton, who hasn't proven anything in his time in the bigs. I hope you temper your expectations for how much you'd get in a trade for Broxton, because if you don't, you're going to be a disappointed. If Broxton is traded, and not optioned back down, it's purely for roster space. I don't think anyone would consider him an "asset," and if you do, just expect a bad scenario for yourself

 

Also in that post, I didn't say that Broxton is *worth* more than Santana, I just mentioned that people believe his trade value is higher, which shouldn't be true

[areacodes]

People on this forum bash Villar, who has had a good season in his career, but then praise Broxton, who hasn't proven anything in his time in the bigs. I hope you temper your expectations for how much you'd get in a trade for Broxton, because if you don't, you're going to be a disappointed. If Broxton is traded, and not optioned back down, it's purely for roster space. I don't think anyone would consider him an "asset," and if you do, just expect a bad scenario for yourself

 

Also in that post, I didn't say that Broxton is *worth* more than Santana, I just mentioned that people believe his trade value is higher, which shouldn't be true

 

Value = Worth. Haudricourt said there was more interest in Broxton and people have been discussing his value. I don't believe anybody has said Broxton has more trade value than Santana, just more interest.

 

There are posters who bash Villar and there are posters who believe he could bounce back just like there are posters who treat Broxton (and plenty of others) the same way. I haven't seen too many going out of there way to hate on Villar while praising or expecting great things from Broxton.

 

I'd personally say that both of them have shown flashes but have yet to prove they can sustain it. Hence the reason you have the spectrum of opinions on both.

[badger3034]

People on this forum bash Villar, who has had a good season in his career, but then praise Broxton, who hasn't proven anything in his time in the bigs. I hope you temper your expectations for how much you'd get in a trade for Broxton, because if you don't, you're going to be a disappointed. If Broxton is traded, and not optioned back down, it's purely for roster space. I don't think anyone would consider him an "asset," and if you do, just expect a bad scenario for yourself

 

Also in that post, I didn't say that Broxton is *worth* more than Santana, I just mentioned that people believe his trade value is higher, which shouldn't be true

 

Value = Worth. Haudricourt said there was more interest in Broxton and people have been discussing his value. I don't believe anybody has said Broxton has more trade value than Santana, just more interest.

 

There are posters who bash Villar and there are posters who believe he could bounce back just like there are posters who treat Broxton (and plenty of others) the same way. I haven't seen too many going out of there way to hate on Villar while praising or expecting great things from Broxton.

 

I'd personally say that both of them have shown flashes but have yet to prove they can sustain it. Hence the reason you have the spectrum of opinions on both.

 

I guess I can't really say that Broxton is going to "bounce back," if he doesn't have anything to bounce back to. He's been good for about a stretch of 2 weeks per season hes been in the big leagues, maybe referring to that? Also, value does not = worth. If I go to the grocery store and buy something on sale for 99 cents, that doesn't mean its worth another item that is $5 normally, I just happened to buy the relatable item when it was at its cheapest value. That's how I equate value to a player, just like you would buy low on a player after a bad season, and you sell high on a player when they have a good season. The Brewers are trying to sell high on Santana, and other teams are trying to buy low on Broxton, which in some peoples minds here, make them think he has good value. I just think that the teams that are offering on Broxton are attempting to buy low, which is very low, considering the season he had last year. If there was a good offer, he would've been traded already, Broxton is not in the Brewers short term, or long term plans unless Santana is traded. In that scenario, there is a small chance he could stick around for a bit, albeit on a small amount of playing time.

[TJseven7]

Broxton and Villar need plate discipline. If either got it they'd be solid players. Until they have it they are toolsy trash. He's a scarecrow... if he only had a brain. If we are keeping Santana, and it appears he's not getting the value we want, there's zero need to keep broxton and there's zero chance to develop him further. Phillips is also waiting.

 

He could have a very nice year for someone if he keeps walking. Exit velocity and speed plays if you can swing at good pitches and get on base a bit. 20/20 guys are rare... but at this point he's a scratch and dent upside add that doesn't fit here.

 

You get anything reasonable you sell him. You have to while the option exists or he's in scooter territory next year. We got him for nothing. Still got supak and anything else is still far far ahead of Rogers.

 

Just give me Alexander Canario OF and Camilo Doval rhp from SF and be done with it.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

"Go west young man haven't you been told, California's full of women whiskey and gold." - Toby Keith

 

Well, Oakland makes a lot of sense. San Fran does as well. Dodgers don't need him. San Diego would make some sense. Not the Angels.

 

I wonder if someone like Cotton would be in play for Broxton and maybe Aguilar?

[ThisIsMyCrew]

It’s not even just Broxtons plate discipline....he’s one of the worst at swings and misses at balls in the zone, specifically straight fastballs.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I wonder if the Padres losing Alex Dickerson likely for the year moves the needle on them going after Broxton?

[Lathund]

It’s not even just Broxtons plate discipline....he’s one of the worst at swings and misses at balls in the zone, specifically straight fastballs.

 

Yeah that's what worries me. If it was a matter of plate discipline I would be more confident in the strikeout rate dropping, but not when it's a ton of swing and miss inside the strike zone. In 2017 Broxton made contact on 67.3% of his swings on pitches inside the zone. That's the lowest % in the majors among players with 250 PAs. 2nd is Joey Gallo, 71.6%. Only 36 out of 300+ players were even below 80%. (FWIW Villar, Aguilar and Santana were 16th, 22nd and 30th). On the other side of the scale we have Eric Sogard with the 2nd highest at 95.3%, .2% behind Ben Revere.

 

Now of course this is just one stat among many; a selective slap singles hitter like Sogard will obviously be top of this stat, and yet be a worse hitter than many people at the bottom of the list. It's just pointing out one reason why he might not improve on the K%. It's also one part of why I don't think Santana is someone who is going to improve a lot; I believe he's already the player he'll be, and if there was a chance to "sell high" he should've been the one traded. Seemingly though, there isn't that chance.

[pacopete4]

There are large stretches in the season where I swear that Broxton has a hole in his bat. He has value, to someone, maybe even us as a backup. But I am sure happy to see us move in a different direction. Philips may be the next guy I don't mind seeing moved if he can't figure out how to make more contact.

[FVBrewerFan]

Philips may be the next guy I don't mind seeing moved if he can't figure out how to make more contact.

 

Yea, except the time to do that would have been now. If he goes another year and proves he can't make contact, what is he worth? Not much of a market for OFs that can't hit. They would be better off holding on to him hoping he figures it out eventually.

 

Too bad, because with that cannon and overall defensive skills he would be so perfect in RF or any field. And I think he would be a good clubhouse guy too, for whatever that's worth.

[adambr2]

People on this forum bash Villar, who has had a good season in his career, but then praise Broxton, who hasn't proven anything in his time in the bigs. I hope you temper your expectations for how much you'd get in a trade for Broxton, because if you don't, you're going to be a disappointed. If Broxton is traded, and not optioned back down, it's purely for roster space. I don't think anyone would consider him an "asset," and if you do, just expect a bad scenario for yourself

 

Also in that post, I didn't say that Broxton is *worth* more than Santana, I just mentioned that people believe his trade value is higher, which shouldn't be true

 

Value = Worth. Haudricourt said there was more interest in Broxton and people have been discussing his value. I don't believe anybody has said Broxton has more trade value than Santana, just more interest.

 

There are posters who bash Villar and there are posters who believe he could bounce back just like there are posters who treat Broxton (and plenty of others) the same way. I haven't seen too many going out of there way to hate on Villar while praising or expecting great things from Broxton.

 

I'd personally say that both of them have shown flashes but have yet to prove they can sustain it. Hence the reason you have the spectrum of opinions on both.

 

I guess I can't really say that Broxton is going to "bounce back," if he doesn't have anything to bounce back to. He's been good for about a stretch of 2 weeks per season hes been in the big leagues, maybe referring to that? .

 

Not true at all. As I said before in 2016 he was basically our best player after the AS break through the end of the season. He put up a .937 OPS with elite defense as a CFer in the second half. You don't go from a negative WAR to over 2 WAR in less than 250 PAs with 2 good weeks.

 

It's true he unfortunately didn't find that again last year returning from the broken wrist and it's also true he hasn't had much long sustained success at this level but to say he's had a stretch of '2 weeks per season' where he was good is just totally untrue.

 

He was elite in the 2nd half of the 2016 season. Not 'good', elite.

[Boomer5]

Broxton is not an elite defender.

[adambr2]

Broxton is not an elite defender.

 

Yes, he was absolutely an elite defender in 2016 which is what I was talking about.

 

He was barely average in 2017 but much of that was from just bad errors, not a lack of range, skill and instincts.

 

I know reviews on his 2017 were pretty mixed but I don't see how it's even debatable that he has the tools to play defense at a high level considering he's done it before.

[pacopete4]

Broxton was 20th in catch probability and 19th in defensive runs saved in 2016.

[Boomer5]

Broxton is not an elite defender.

 

Yes, he was absolutely an elite defender in 2016 which is what I was talking about.

 

He was barely average in 2017 but much of that was from just bad errors, not a lack of range, skill and instincts.

 

I know reviews on his 2017 were pretty mixed but I don't see how it's even debatable that he has the tools to play defense at a high level considering he's done it before.

 

2017 -4.0 UZR/150 -7 DRS

 

Not elite. Not even good. Does he have the tools? Yes but the results are the results. He also played more than double the innings in 2017 as he did in 2016. Take that however you want but I'd guess most would see in small does he is good but in larger samples the holes become more magnified.

[brewcrewdue80]

I also feel that Broxton is worth more than some are thinking. I think at least Top 30 prospect and another high upside guy would be coming back. Broxton is cheap, provides good power and defense, and has an option. That's worth more than a couple of 17 year old DSL kids.

 

Are we talking about the same Broxton?

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9253&position=OF

 

I mean his in the zone contact decreased but he increased his Out of zone contact rate(though with more chasing that) You could conclude he makes better in the zone contact this season and improves his numbers overall by just doing that. He did have that ST hit to the head to deal with, and I'm sure that had an effect on him for some time(maybe still)

 

He was for all the Ks, fairly consistent. He was .744OPS by game 53 and his range from that point was .695-.814 finishing at .719OPS. That FG also rates him as being 20+mil value to date. It's odd that his defense was knocked when his percentages were the same or better on likely outcomes.

 

He's above replacement level at CF. It may be small but there are likely times he will have it be quite a bit higher. He's gotta have value to secondary teams w/o a solid core of 4OFs with 2 being CF. Philly makes sense as a team with Lefty OFs who he could platoon with. Also Oakland. I already mentioned Colorado previously just to have an OF after this season.