Vogt out 2-3 weeks with shoulder strain [Latest: Season Over, Career possibly over as well]

[pacopete4]

Well, that makes more sense.

[TURBO]

That may be true, however, if teams we play know that he has a noodle arm, they will probably steal more than normal. If I was managing against him, I know I would.

 

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2013/7/18/4522508/who-deserves-credit-for-throwing-out-base-runners

 

Given our findings, it is reasonable to say, at the least, that the pitcher is more responsible than we conventionally think when it comes to catching base-runners stealing -- largely due to the fact that we know that a pitcher's CS%, isolated or overall, correlates highly with CS% for the battery as a whole and twice as much as a catcher's CS%.

 

Ok, so then, you are saying that Vogt's arm isn't that bad? I get it, pitchers have a certain amount of responsibility when it comes to guys taking bases, but seriously, there is no defense when it comes to Vogt's arm.

 

It is not good.

[pacopete4]

You don't need any statistical proof that Vogt has a bad arm. Watch him throw. It was a 2 hopper to second base most of the time. He was brutal to say the least.

 

I was a catcher, trust me I blame every pitcher I have ever caught but Vogt just has a terrible arm for a major league catcher. Maybe some of it is old age or injury, but it wasn't good a season ago.

[Baldkin]

That may be true, however, if teams we play know that he has a noodle arm, they will probably steal more than normal. If I was managing against him, I know I would.

 

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2013/7/18/4522508/who-deserves-credit-for-throwing-out-base-runners

 

Given our findings, it is reasonable to say, at the least, that the pitcher is more responsible than we conventionally think when it comes to catching base-runners stealing -- largely due to the fact that we know that a pitcher's CS%, isolated or overall, correlates highly with CS% for the battery as a whole and twice as much as a catcher's CS%.

 

Ok, so then, you are saying that Vogt's arm isn't that bad? I get it, pitchers have a certain amount of responsibility when it comes to guys taking bases, but seriously, there is no defense when it comes to Vogt's arm.

 

It is not good.

 

I'm saying you're greatly overrating

1) How bad his arm was

2) How it was all his fault and

3) This grandiose idea that everyone ran all over him -- he caught 270 innings last year in Milwaukee and gave up 27 SBs with 4CS. So, less than one a game.

4) His bat easily makes up the difference between his arm and Jett Bandy's.

[Jopal78]

Jon Lester doesn't pay attention to base runners, and cannot throw to the bases without intentionally bouncing it, yet there were only 19 steals against him last year in 34 starts and three steals in 6 starts so far this year. It Vogt hits anywhere close to his career averages he will see plenty of time behind the plate regardless if he's throwing out 18% of runners.

[TURBO]

So you guys are fine with a noodle armed catcher, and you will defend him no matter what I say so..........there is no need to carry on this conversation any longer.

[danzig6767]

Jon Lester doesn't pay attention to base runners, and cannot throw to the bases without intentionally bouncing it, yet there were only 19 steals against him last year in 34 starts and three steals in 6 starts so far this year. It Vogt hits anywhere close to his career averages he will see plenty of time behind the plate regardless if he's throwing out 18% of runners.

That's the rub, Vogt has to hit to offset his awful arm. Given though Bandy hits like a guy in a permanent slump and isn't exactly great at throwing out runners either, Vogt likely will be a better option overall.

 

Vogt is also helped by the way baseball is played today compared to the past where for many teams, stealing bases was a higher priority than now. There aren't as many players in the league based mainly on their speed and a lot of teams simply don't want to risk running into an out, even vs a catcher with a bad arm.

[danzig6767]

So you guys are fine with a noodle armed catcher, and you will defend him no matter what I say

I didn't see anyone saying they want a catcher with a terrible arm like Vogt has, more just that they feel overall, he is simply a better than Bandy.

[Never Outhustled]

So you guys are fine with a noodle armed catcher, and you will defend him no matter what I say so..........there is no need to carry on this conversation any longer.

 

Wow, this is uninformed hate. Entering the 2017 season, Vogt had caught 32% of base stealers. He spent the offseason working to fix some mechanical flaws he had developed. Sure, he has a weak arm, but that's only 1 factor in pop times. Footwork and transfer are also huge factors.

 

It's reasonable that Vogt could return to being an average throwing catcher, and that player should be a heck of an addition to this team.

[homer]

Like I said earlier, he was league average on his throws until last year. So either he fell off a cliff, was hurt, or had a mechanical issue. Remains to be seen what it was.

[xisxisxis]

A league average C at this point would be great for this offense as we need to turn some of the bottom of the order trips into run scoring opportunities... It would be great if we could get league average from our SP because as a group they are making the case for a perfect image of "automatic out"...

[AKCheesehead]

Like I said earlier, he was league average on his throws until last year. So either he fell off a cliff, was hurt, or had a mechanical issue. Remains to be seen what it was.

 

Stay tuned, he had to leave the game tonight in Biloxi after attempting to throw out a baserunner.

[Mass Haas]

VIDEO via WLOX: Biloxi highlights includes Stephen Vogt's injury exit

[Eye Black]

From Adam McCalvy and Tom Haudricourt...

 

 

@AdamMcCalvy: Spoke to Stephen Vogt, who is still in pain today — but in a different part of his right shoulder. Doctor appt. at noon tomorrow. We’ll update the story at Brewers dot com with his comments.

 

@Haudricourt: #Brewers C Stephen Vogt on his shoulder pain: "I'm trying to be me and stay as positive as I can right now. The main thing is I want to get back and try to help win games. Obviously, it's not a fun day for me right now."

[Fear The Chorizo]

Well, best of luck to you mr. Vogt, but unless the doc appt results come back shockingly pristine you probably won't see miller park in uniform anytime soon. Too bad, because him replacing bandy on the roster was one of the few no brainer moves that would have improved the mlb offense.

 

Would it be that big of a reach to expect Nottingham to join the team at the break as a 33% starter? Until then I think we are stuck with bandy is the 2nd catcher. I'd say call him up now, but I'd rather Nottingham keep getting regular at bats in AAA for a few more months.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

When they traded Maldy for Bandy wasn't the whole idea that Jett could hit? Baseball is weird sometimes, especially when dealing with guys who were basically backup catchers at the time.

 

Feel bad for Vogt. No doubt his bat would have helped. Hoping for good news today but not especially optimistic.

[JohnBriggs12]

I don't know why they don't give Bethancourt a shot. He was arguably their best catcher in Arizona, he's got an .803 road OPS at AAA, and although he's not produced to this point in the major leagues, he was a top 100 prospect in the past.

[Never Outhustled]

I don't know why they don't give Bethancourt a shot. He was arguably their best catcher in Arizona, he's got an .803 road OPS at AAA, and although he's not produced to this point in the major leagues, he was a top 100 prospect in the past.

 

Bethancourt is out of options, so it didn't make sense to expose Bandy to waivers with Vogt looking like he'd be back quickly, and then have to expose Bethancourt to waivers.

 

With it looking like Vogt will be out longterm, Bethancourt might now get his shot.

 

Also, Bethancourt had just 26 at-bats last year, it is probably good for him to be in AAA playing regularly.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think both Bethancourt and Nottingham need consistent AB's in the minors at this stage for their own benefit, so I'd be surprised if Vogt's setback means nothing more than Bandy staying in Milwaukee until midseason. After a few more months, I could see either Bethancourt or Nottingham replacing Bandy on the roster if Vogt has a shoulder issue that keeps him off the field longterm.

 

I don't think C is the MLB roster's most pressing issue. Until the 2B / MIF pile of crap gets sorted out for the organization's longterm benefit I'd prefer they not tinker with any other area of the 40-man unless an injury prompts it.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think both Bethancourt and Nottingham need consistent AB's in the minors at this stage for their own benefit, so I'd be surprised if Vogt's setback means nothing more than Bandy staying in Milwaukee until midseason. After a few more months, I could see either Bethancourt or Nottingham replacing Bandy on the roster if Vogt has a shoulder issue that keeps him off the field longterm.

 

I don't think C is the MLB roster's most pressing issue. Until the 2B / MIF pile of crap gets sorted out for the organization's longterm benefit I'd prefer they not tinker with any other area of the 40-man unless an injury prompts it.

 

The nice thing about having so many prospects starting the season so well is that it's going to make it easier to deal some of them to eventually fill these holes. Right now, this team could use an upgrade at catcher, 2B and, frankly, RF, as crazy as that sounds.

[adambr2]

I think both Bethancourt and Nottingham need consistent AB's in the minors at this stage for their own benefit, so I'd be surprised if Vogt's setback means nothing more than Bandy staying in Milwaukee until midseason. After a few more months, I could see either Bethancourt or Nottingham replacing Bandy on the roster if Vogt has a shoulder issue that keeps him off the field longterm.

 

I don't think C is the MLB roster's most pressing issue. Until the 2B / MIF pile of crap gets sorted out for the organization's longterm benefit I'd prefer they not tinker with any other area of the 40-man unless an injury prompts it.

 

The nice thing about having so many prospects starting the season so well is that it's going to make it easier to deal some of them to eventually fill these holes. Right now, this team could use an upgrade at catcher, 2B and, frankly, RF, as crazy as that sounds.

 

Santana has really been coming around, OBP already up around. 350, and quite honestly, hasn't been all that bad in the field.

 

Power will come around, I can't imagine he just went from a big power bat to a slap hitter overnight at age 25.

 

Still K's too much but other than that I really do think he'll be okay.

[FVBrewerFan]

I think both Bethancourt and Nottingham need consistent AB's in the minors at this stage for their own benefit, so I'd be surprised if Vogt's setback means nothing more than Bandy staying in Milwaukee until midseason. After a few more months, I could see either Bethancourt or Nottingham replacing Bandy on the roster if Vogt has a shoulder issue that keeps him off the field longterm.

 

I don't think C is the MLB roster's most pressing issue. Until the 2B / MIF pile of crap gets sorted out for the organization's longterm benefit I'd prefer they not tinker with any other area of the 40-man unless an injury prompts it.

 

I agree with Nottingham. It was only a year ago he was fading, now that he's hitting and defense is improving he needs to play every day. Bethancourt is not the future, so I have no problem bringing him up. Can't imagine he would be worse than Bandy, but worth taking the risk to find out at this point. That move should be done today, who knows when or if Voght will ever be back.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Yes. I think Santana has put together much better ABs, and I'll live with the Ks (frustrating as they are with runner and 3rd and less than 2 outs). I almost think our best lineup at this point doesn't feature Braun, but that's contingent upon Aguilar being a beast. Of course, that is a discussion for another thread...

 

Bandy was so hot in April last year and then just fell off a cliff. I agree that MI is a bigger concern, but I wish the team had more inspiring options in the event Pina's regression sticks. Bethancourt is the guy I'd give ABs to, but it is probably best to wait another few weeks at least.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Any word from Brewers' brass on Vogt's doc appointment? Or are they taking a day-to-day approach with issuing the statement saying he's essentially done for the season similar to how they employ that strategy to almost always play games with a 24 man roster that still includes 3-4 players not even worth still being on this team?

[JohnBriggs12]

I think both Bethancourt and Nottingham need consistent AB's in the minors at this stage for their own benefit, so I'd be surprised if Vogt's setback means nothing more than Bandy staying in Milwaukee until midseason. After a few more months, I could see either Bethancourt or Nottingham replacing Bandy on the roster if Vogt has a shoulder issue that keeps him off the field longterm.

 

I don't think C is the MLB roster's most pressing issue. Until the 2B / MIF pile of crap gets sorted out for the organization's longterm benefit I'd prefer they not tinker with any other area of the 40-man unless an injury prompts it.

 

I agree with Nottingham. It was only a year ago he was fading, now that he's hitting and defense is improving he needs to play every day. Bethancourt is not the future, so I have no problem bringing him up. Can't imagine he would be worse than Bandy, but worth taking the risk to find out at this point. That move should be done today, who knows when or if Voght will ever be back.

 

Bethancourt is just 26 and was much higher rated as a prospect than Nottingham. He's simply better than Nottingham and he's not old. It's great that Nottingham has started to hit in a small sample but he hit just .209/.326/.369 at AA last year. When Bethancourt was in AA at age 21, he hit .277/.305/.436. Both have all the tools defensively and meet the eye test. They both look the part of starting catchers in the big leagues. Nottingham has fanned 20 times in 72 PA this season, while Bethancourt has fanned 15 times in 100 PA. That's an indication of which would fare better vs. major league pitching.