Random news and notes for MLB 2018

[Fear The Chorizo]

I guarantee if Aguilar did that to a Cub's catcher then 100% of this board would be saying it was a clean play and would be complaining about the Cub's complaining about the play.

 

Well maybe not 100%, but at least 90%.

 

well I'd be in the 10% - a dirty play is a dirty play, regardless of uniforms. I for one feel that Rizzo is a fantastic guy - the things he does off the field, particularly for kids with cancer, are wonderful. What he did on the field yesterday is a bad play that doesn't have a part in the game - those that feel it's "clean" and "part of baseball" must enjoy watching car crash videos.

[Baldkin]

Simple fix. MLB makes a rule that there are no takeout slides at home plate anymore. Or if you are out on force, you must slide directly into the plate. I'm not upset at Rizzo for what he did because it is something I've seen many times as you are expected to take away the double play if you can.

 

(4) slides within reach of the base without changing his path-

way for the purpose of initiating contact with a fielder.

 

That's the rule. He broke it. There's no need for another ruling.

 

[pacopete4]

Slides within reach of the base really opens that up though. I get that you may want to be mad but it is not as clear cut as you want to make it. Nor is this the first take out slide at home plate.

[xisxisxis]

(4) slides within reach of the base without changing his path-

way for the purpose of initiating contact with a fielder.

 

He was running down the line, but slid inside of the line. It's clear that he CHANGED his pathway to initiate contact. Sliding within reach of the base is fine, sliding within reach of the base by changing your pathway is NOT.

[tmwiese55]

I think a key part that hasn't been really pointed out (yet shown in the pics there) is that he was out by a mile. There was literally no reason to still even be sliding. He basically started his slide after he was already out.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think any slide rule developed for eliminating collisions needs to include some sort of statement that if a slide is attempted, the players legs or arms (depending whether it's a foot- or head-first slide) need to be directed towards the base/plate they are trying to reach. Sure, Rizzo's chest eventually winds up over the plate, after he basically throws himself sideways to get his feet into the catcher's legs, where he's getting ready to make a throw about 5' off the plate and completely out of a normal path for a guy running from 3rd to home.

 

I always look at these plays and think a good hard slide is when the runner actually slides into the base hard, not when they slide with 100% intent of contacting a player first and eventually reaching 4-6' in the opposite direction of where a slide is directed to get a hand or leg on the base. If a hard slide directly into a bag has no effect on the fielder taking a throw and making the relay to another base, then that fielder did his job to avoid the runner - that shouldn't be a reason for the runner to contort himself and his path in a way he never would if he was actually trying to reach a base safely.

[areacodes]

(4) slides within reach of the base without changing his path-

way for the purpose of initiating contact with a fielder.

 

He was running down the line, but slid inside of the line. It's clear that he CHANGED his pathway to initiate contact. Sliding within reach of the base is fine, sliding within reach of the base by changing your pathway is NOT.

 

This.

 

Rizzo took at least two steps out of his original path (from one side of the foul line to his last step on the infield grass in front of the plate) in order to slide into the catcher's legs.

[young guns]

I think any slide rule developed for eliminating collisions needs to include some sort of statement that if a slide is attempted, the players legs or arms (depending whether it's a foot- or head-first slide) need to be directed towards the base/plate they are trying to reach.

I would add or away from the fielder. I have no problem with a player swinging wide to try and avoid a tag as much as possible.

[trwi7]

A runner attempting to score may not deviate from his direct pathway to the plate in order to initiate contact with the catcher (or other player covering home plate), or otherwise initiate an avoidable collision.

 

Bolded part is key too. He has basically the entire outside of the baseline to work with and still went after the catcher.

[MadScientist]

So the umpires on the field gave him a pass, and so did the replay official, but MLB apparently informed the teams that it was interference. If the field umpires and the replay umpire can't get a rule right, something is wrong with the system.

 

Reference: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/ct-spt-cubs-anthony-rizzo-slide-rosenbloom-20180529-story.html

 

Pretty fair analysis from the Chicago paper.

[MrTPlush]

Everyone is so stuck on arguing on the rule (it wasn’t legal anyway).

 

You can have a dirty play that is technically legal. Legal or not that play is pretty disgusting. He takes out the catchers legs who doesn’t even see him sliding in...that extremely dangerous. He had no way to avoid that. As mentioned he is also out by a mile. No excuse to be sliding that hard into home when you were out before ever starting your slide.

 

Middle infielders see a player coming at least. Most players also don’t slide that hard into the player either. Bad mistake on Rizzo...he is a good guy and player. Be better in the future.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I love that Maddon is arguing that it's a "good old-school baseball slide". Guy, that time is gone. You're a dinosaur. Get out of here with that crap.

 

I'm sure there's still people, even a lot of people that like that stuff, and like seeing retaliatory HBP, and hate seeing 1-0 no hitters broken up by bunt singles in the 5th inning, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, but old-school baseball is going away, just like deciding a guy is a "good hitter" because he has a .303 batting average.

 

These players make a lot of money. They also don't want to spend their post-retirement years in crap-tons of pain. The catcher did EVERYTHING right on that play. He took the throw and stepped forward twice to get out of the line of fire from an approaching runner. If Maddon still thinks it's ok to slide four feet in front of the plate and spike a guy's knee.... then it's time for him to retire and get out of baseball. Take Don Mattingly and Kirk Gibson with ya.

[young guns]

I had almost forgot about it, but I can't believe what rock was saying about the play. Basically, he doesn't like the new rule, just need to teach catchers "the right way" and they won't get hurt. And the worst part is he said the catcher didn't do enough to get out of the way. Was he supposed to run to the mound before trying the throw?

[KeithStone53151]

Everyone is so stuck on arguing on the rule (it wasn’t legal anyway).

 

You can have a dirty play that is technically legal. Legal or not that play is pretty disgusting. He takes out the catchers legs who doesn’t even see him sliding in...that extremely dangerous. He had no way to avoid that. As mentioned he is also out by a mile. No excuse to be sliding that hard into home when you were out before ever starting your slide.

 

Middle infielders see a player coming at least. Most players also don’t slide that hard into the player either. Bad mistake on Rizzo...he is a good guy and player. Be better in the future.

 

Good point here, Rizzo has been in the league a while and doesn't have a history of doing anything like this. He plays hard and is generally a model player. It's honestly a shame that Cubs fans are the absolute worst, because the players they have are generally likeable and good dudes...and I'd rather be able to root for some of them, especially Kris Bryant.

 

I know after the game he made comments about how the play was technically legal, I hope someone in baseball reached out and discussed the rule with him directly. You don't want to send the wrong message to a player like the knobs in New York did with the initial call on review...other players see that and it opens the flood gates for takeout slides.

[KeithStone53151]

I love that Maddon is arguing that it's a "good old-school baseball slide". Guy, that time is gone. You're a dinosaur. Get out of here with that crap.

 

I'm sure there's still people, even a lot of people that like that stuff, and like seeing retaliatory HBP, and hate seeing 1-0 no hitters broken up by bunt singles in the 5th inning, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, but old-school baseball is going away, just like deciding a guy is a "good hitter" because he has a .303 batting average.

 

These players make a lot of money. They also don't want to spend their post-retirement years in crap-tons of pain. The catcher did EVERYTHING right on that play. He took the throw and stepped forward twice to get out of the line of fire from an approaching runner. If Maddon still thinks it's ok to slide four feet in front of the plate and spike a guy's knee.... then it's time for him to retire and get out of baseball. Take Don Mattingly and Kirk Gibson with ya.

 

Ehh, I'm not ready for Maddon to go. I definitely understand your point, but I firmly believe the Cubs would be a much better team if their manager was remotely competent at making in-game baseball decisions.

[xisxisxis]

I'd love to see the stats on players who get into collisions and what position they play. It would be interesting if 1B and OF are the most likely to be in collisions as they are never at risk themselves.

[KeithStone53151]

I'd love to see the stats on players who get into collisions and what position they play. It would be interesting if 1B and OF are the most likely to be in collisions as they are never at risk themselves.

 

1B are generally less athletic and may have a tougher time avoiding a collision. Can you imagine Aguilar trying to manuever to avoid a collision on a close play?

[reillymcshane]

To me the thing about the Rizzo slide is that he's going at a guy who can't defend himself. It's a jerk thing to do - taking a guy out when he's not looking. I don't care what the rules are (although I think the rules clearly show that what Rizzo did was wrong).

 

You got someone coming at you that you can see - like at 2B - you're going to be able to react to the body barreling at you. You move sideways, jump, whatever. But Diaz was essentially undefended. Sure, I guess he should have considered that the guy coming at him from the side was going to wipe him out. But he was a full step in front of the plate, and had gotten out of the path of the runner.

 

Hitting a guy undefended is a classless thing to do - even if you think it's fair. A guy is so vulnerable in that situation - it's just wrong.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I'd love to see the stats on players who get into collisions and what position they play. It would be interesting if 1B and OF are the most likely to be in collisions as they are never at risk themselves.

 

I'd say that 1B are among the highest risk for collisions - seeing they take at least a dozen throws per game with a player flying down the line trying to get to the base. Errant throws that pull the 1B into the baseline can be extremely dangerous.

 

Plus, OF's routinely crash into walls and at times teammates going after flyballs - granted, not other players on the bases - but you can't say these two sets of positions are never at risk. DH would be the position who's "never at risk" in the field. If we're talking solely about on-field collisions with other baserunners in the infield, 3B and pitchers are probably the least likely to have a runner barreling down on them.

[trwi7]

I had almost forgot about it, but I can't believe what rock was saying about the play. Basically, he doesn't like the new rule, just need to teach catchers "the right way" and they won't get hurt. And the worst part is he said the catcher didn't do enough to get out of the way. Was he supposed to run to the mound before trying the throw?

 

Rock is an old school idiot. The catcher's only job there is to clear home plate so he has a lane to throw to 1st base so he doesn't hit the runner in the back and he's obviously not going to take a step backwards and throw himself off balance and take away a lot of the power on his throw so his only choice is to step forward.

 

And what does he expect him to do? Take 5 steps to clear and take away any chance at having a double play? You need to clear (he did) and get rid of the ball quickly to give yourself a chance of getting the out at 1st.

[jerichoholicninja]

Wasn't Rizzo involved in another couple incidents either this year or last where he was clearly being the idiot?

[KeithStone53151]

I had almost forgot about it, but I can't believe what rock was saying about the play. Basically, he doesn't like the new rule, just need to teach catchers "the right way" and they won't get hurt. And the worst part is he said the catcher didn't do enough to get out of the way. Was he supposed to run to the mound before trying the throw?

 

Rock is an old school idiot. The catcher's only job there is to clear home plate so he has a lane to throw to 1st base so he doesn't hit the runner in the back and he's obviously not going to take a step backwards and throw himself off balance and take away a lot of the power on his throw so his only choice is to step forward.

 

And what does he expect him to do? Take 5 steps to clear and take away any chance at having a double play? You need to clear (he did) and get rid of the ball quickly to give yourself a chance of getting the out at 1st.

 

I listened in as well, this is a misrepresentation of what Rock said. He said his preference is that the new rules aren't necessary and catchers need better coaching...which that part of what is noted above is accurate. But again, he said that's his preference. He also said based on the rules, it was a blatant violation and he couldn't believe the umps in New York didn't overturn the call. He also did not justify the slide, even if the rule didn't exist.

[tmwiese55]

Just saw this on CBS. I bet I was at least in my upper teens before I realized this too but I don't recall for sure. I really think it's the best logo in sports.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/brewers-logo-starts-a-twitter-frenzy-after-people-realize-theres-a-hidden-message/

[young guns]

I listened in as well, this is a misrepresentation of what Rock said. He said his preference is that the new rules aren't necessary and catchers need better coaching...which that part of what is noted above is accurate. But again, he said that's his preference. He also said based on the rules, it was a blatant violation and he couldn't believe the umps in New York didn't overturn the call. He also did not justify the slide, even if the rule didn't exist.

My post wasn't in reference to his opinion on the play, just on the rule in general and his thoughts about what the catcher should have done. That part that amazed me was when he said players used to know the guy from third was gonna try and clip them so they cleared the plate. They used to get 3 feet away from the plate and if they couldn't they were braced for impact. I don't get how he thought the catcher didn't get 3 feet away from the plate.

[KeithStone53151]

I listened in as well, this is a misrepresentation of what Rock said. He said his preference is that the new rules aren't necessary and catchers need better coaching...which that part of what is noted above is accurate. But again, he said that's his preference. He also said based on the rules, it was a blatant violation and he couldn't believe the umps in New York didn't overturn the call. He also did not justify the slide, even if the rule didn't exist.

My post wasn't in reference to his opinion on the play, just on the rule in general and his thoughts about what the catcher should have done. That part that amazed me was when he said players used to know the guy from third was gonna try and clip them so they cleared the plate. They used to get 3 feet away from the plate and if they couldn't they were braced for impact. I don't get how he thought the catcher didn't get 3 feet away from the plate.

 

That's fair, and it also doesn't exactly condemn that catcher for his awful throw. He cleared home by plenty and based on the rules, knew he absolutely shouldn't have to deal with contact. Based on the rules, the catcher did everything exactly right.