Spring Training thread

[TJseven7]

Anderson nelson davies suter

578.1 ip 3.44 era... 101 starts 5.73ip per

The rest

294.2 ip 5.40 era...61 starts 4.83 ip per start

 

The rest set a brutally low bar..

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

I know that’s what happened last year but to expect Suter to be in the Anderson/Davies tier again this year is a bit optimistic/delusional

[TJseven7]

He had 14 starts and he was a 3.75 era in them. I'm not saying he's anderson davies nelson. Merely saying he was the only one besides those 3 who didn't suck.

 

I truly want him to piggy back woody in a 4-5 3-4 ip tandem. Making the 4 starter a 7-9 inning eating venture could help the pen. Woodruff 128-160 ip, suter 96-128 ip. I'd expect close to 250 ip from the 2. I think suter is real good 1 time through the order. I'd prefer to use that instead of making him a typical long man who eats garbage innings.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

That’s fair. I just don’t expect him to be anywhere near a sub 4 ERA pitcher this year if he’s just thrown in the rotation. If he’s protected a bit as a piggy back guy, not allowed to face orders 3rd time through, long relief, spot starts vs a team with optimal splits, etc... sure. But if he’s just given 20-25+ starts I expect a mid-high 4s ERA as his floor and probably worse.

[TJseven7]

All depends on his added length to starts. He was brilliant the first 3 innings last year. As starts wore on he wore out or was figured out.

 

We've said 8 man pen. I look at it like

Anderson 5.5 ip, davies 6 ip, chacin 5.5 ip, woody/suter 8 ip and fluff #5 around 5 ip

Leaves a 7 man pen who gets off days (hopefully) when woody suter R/L combo.

 

Woody leaves the game tied or losing, suter pitches til its a save opp or done.

Woody leaves the game leading big, let suter try to close it out.

Woody leaves and its a small lead... suter gets 2+ with a quick hook in the 8th.

 

Suter's unlikely to last 6 at high quality. But he's also too good to use after some guy flamed out as an innings eater. Jeffress Barnes and whomevers the last arm in the pen can pick those up.

 

Fun part is if you really wanted to keep him stretched you could have him go 3 then have him go simulate 2 more before calling it a day.

[TJseven7]

Knebel is regressing... he allowed a run. Uh-oh! #blue

 

Truth: Hate seeing him walk anyone.

 

Ps: perez really wants to stick around. Really nice start for him.

[markedman5]

Hiura with a line drive RBI single to right center followed by a rocket off the wall by Nottingham in the 9th

 

6-1 crew

[JohnBriggs12]

Knebel is regressing... he allowed a run. Uh-oh! #blue

 

Truth: Hate seeing him walk anyone.

 

Ps: perez really wants to stick around. Really nice start for him.

 

Perez is a lock. Might be Counsell's favorite player. He's a much better hitter than he showed last year.

[TJseven7]

Knebel is regressing... he allowed a run. Uh-oh! #blue

 

Truth: Hate seeing him walk anyone.

 

Ps: perez really wants to stick around. Really nice start for him.

 

Perez is a lock. Might be Counsell's favorite player. He's a much better hitter than he showed last year.

 

Don't disagree but the CCs favorite player could also be said about sogard. 8 man pen leaves a 4 man bench C thames perez sogard? Wouldn't quite call him a lock yet.

[kfizz]

Can Sogard be sent to the minors to start the year?

[tigerbrew]

Suter having a great spring training so far, I suspect Counsell will pick him for the rotation if he keeps this up the rest of ST.

 

Read that Perez wants to be the starting 2B, at the rate he's been hitting in ST, why not let him start 2B and have Sogard and Villar on the bench.

[TJseven7]

Suter having a great spring training so far, I suspect Counsell will pick him for the rotation if he keeps this up the rest of ST.

 

Read that Perez wants to be the starting 2B, at the rate he's been hitting in ST, why not let him start 2B and have Sogard and Villar on the bench.

 

I have zero issues starting him every game at 2b vs lhp. I actually said last year when Villar was struggling that perez should get 2b often and felt him not batting lead off was an added plus for the offense. Felt it was better without villar leading off.

[Austin Tatious]

Suter hasn’t pitched late into games yet, but I still think he’s been very underestimated. This guy could linger for years and have a solid MLB career. I think he finds a niche.

[Jenkins5]

Sir Nottingham hitting the ball with authority & power thus far. Something he didn’t do much of last year. He is my bounce back guy this year & love to see him finally break back out. Brewers could use him later on this season or next with Pina

[3and2Fastball]

I think Nottingham will be able to eventually hit MLB pitching. Jury is still way out on whether he'll be enough if a catcher defensively.

[JohnBriggs12]

Suter hasn’t pitched late into games yet, but I still think he’s been very underestimated. This guy could linger for years and have a solid MLB career. I think he finds a niche.

 

If he gives them 5 quality innings and occasionally a 6th, that would be fine as long as a couple other guys in the rotation can go 6 or 7 with regularity. It's tough on opposing lineups to go from seeing Suter's stuff to upper 90's heat. The Dodgers did pretty well using that formula with all their starters not named Kershaw. Hill didn't get past 5 innings in 15 of his 25 starts. Ryu and Maeda were pretty similar.

[brewcrewdue80]

Looking at stats of starts last season Suter went 6 or better 4 of 14 starts. Three games to end the season he pitched 5 sitting an avg of 69 pitches at that point. He did miss 3 weeks in Aug to start of Sept. He has a short leash, that maybe will get extended 10-15pitches. I don't think it's not on his ability to pitch 6 innings or more, just he's not allowed. He's had an offseason to work on his stuff. Allowed to pitch 90 vs 70 could be the difference in the IP concern. I'm interested learning recently he's 6'5". There's a bit of downward plane going on more so than most since he throws in the 80s. He induces soft contact more than the average. The reverse Archer.

[Surhoff5]

Knebel is regressing... he allowed a run. Uh-oh! #blue

 

Truth: Hate seeing him walk anyone.

 

Ps: perez really wants to stick around. Really nice start for him.

 

Perez is a lock. Might be Counsell's favorite player. He's a much better hitter than he showed last year.

 

For the record, I am not saying you are wrong on any of these, but it just shows how much bias a person can have when either liking a player or not.

 

Perez - Stunk last year -- "Is a much better hitter than he showed in 2017"

Guerra - Great in limited starts in 2016, but stunk in 2017 --- "Will bounce back as he was our opening day starter and gained mph on his fastball"

Villar - Amazing in 2016, awful in 2017 -- "Was never a prospect, was a one year wonder and should be DFA'd"

[SeaBass]

Looking at stats of starts last season Suter went 6 or better 4 of 14 starts. Three games to end the season he pitched 5 sitting an avg of 69 pitches at that point. He did miss 3 weeks in Aug to start of Sept. He has a short leash, that maybe will get extended 10-15pitches. I don't think it's not on his ability to pitch 6 innings or more, just he's not allowed. He's had an offseason to work on his stuff. Allowed to pitch 90 vs 70 could be the difference in the IP concern. I'm interested learning recently he's 6'5". There's a bit of downward plane going on more so than most since he throws in the 80s. He induces soft contact more than the average. The reverse Archer.

 

I'm not picking on you specifically for saying this because I see this type of comment from lots of folks all over the internet, but I really wonder how much players really "work on their stuff" in the off season. Most of what I hear players actually say about what they do in the off season is some type of work out routine to either add or subtract muscle to/from certain areas of their bodies to maximize what they already do pretty well.

 

I can't imagine a pitcher especially wants to do a ton of throwing during the off season. The idea is to rest the body, recover from the long grind of the season and come back as fresh as possible. Sure I'm certain they do some throwing but I doubt it's anything near what they do in spring training to ramp their arms back into playing form.

 

Actually I just searched this and found this article. Basically says pitchers should do no throwing whatsoever for at least 2 months and preferably for 3 to 4 months. Which pretty much puts them at resuming bullpen sessions in February which this year is when spring training pretty much began.

 

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sportsdoc/Offseason-throwing-suggestions-for-pitchers.html

[Oldcity]

 

Perez is a lock. Might be Counsell's favorite player. He's a much better hitter than he showed last year.

 

What evidence exists to indicate Perez is a much better hitter? His terrible walk rate of 4.4% in 2017 is actually better than his career rate of 3.7%. For his MLB career, he Ks five times as often as he walks. Even his career OBP in the minors is .305.

 

He's a free-swinging hacker and a terrible offensive player. His only value is in his defensive versatility, but even with that he was hardly above replacement level last year.

[MrTPlush]

Suter hasn’t pitched late into games yet, but I still think he’s been very underestimated. This guy could linger for years and have a solid MLB career. I think he finds a niche.

 

If you build the team to allow it. He doesn’t go deep into games intentionally and I doubt that really changes. If you have a deep bullpen to carry the extra innings it could be pretty effective. We do plan on going with the 8 man pen so that would work in his favor. If the pen ends up not being deep though it is not going to work out very well for us.

[FVBrewerFan]

Suter hasn’t pitched late into games yet, but I still think he’s been very underestimated. This guy could linger for years and have a solid MLB career. I think he finds a niche.

 

If you build the team to allow it. He doesn’t go deep into games intentionally and I doubt that really changes. If you have a deep bullpen to carry the extra innings it could be pretty effective. We do plan on going with the 8 man pen so that would work in his favor. If the pen ends up not being deep though it is not going to work out very well for us.

 

Yea, I'm done with the doubting Suter game. Every step of the way he has surpassed what I thought he could do. As brew pointed out, he did go 6+ in almost 1/3 of his starts. And he could have gone deeper in most of those others. I really don't think he's much different than the vast majority of MLB starters these days in that regard.

[markedman5]

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@Haudricourt

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Keston Hiura not exactly intimidated by Ohtani, ripping a double to left-center. In case you haven't heard, that kid can hit.

[wildcat83]

That’s fair. I just don’t expect him to be anywhere near a sub 4 ERA pitcher this year if he’s just thrown in the rotation. If he’s protected a bit as a piggy back guy, not allowed to face orders 3rd time through, long relief, spot starts vs a team with optimal splits, etc... sure. But if he’s just given 20-25+ starts I expect a mid-high 4s ERA as his floor and probably worse.

 

I really don't see any reason why anyone would think he would be a high 4's ERA for a season as a starter. He's never performed at that level at any point in his entire career. He's a 3.5 ERA in the majors through 16 starts, granted limited innings in some. If he's the 4/5 starter they aren't expecting him to go past 5 more than maybe 1/3 of the time, which he does. There's no evidence at all to back up projecting a high 4's ERA. I honestly think he's going to be a bright spot this year.

[TJseven7]

Still think Suter would be the exact reason you start piggy back starts. His 1st time through numbers are so impressive. I hate to compare anything mlb with my youth pitching days but all star tourney coach starts me. I literally asked him if he was ok because I had the worse stuff of all the guys on the team. Team we played was incredible but i was control soft junk and those dudes swung at the ball like they wanted to hit it to the moon. A couple innings of slamming bats on the plate after trying to crush a circle change that bottomed out and then comes the 4th inning they settled in and it was time to get me out of there. Our stud goes in and it was a bugs bunny cartoon, we got clobbered. Soft control junk slowed them down because it was strange.

 

Soft tossing strange tempo control is only different for awhile. They see it a few times they barrel up. Suters numbers scream that, I find it funny I experienced the same thing a few times. I love the dude. I think his different approach will always rattle people for a few innings but he needs to change things up after that or they'll adjust ingame. 3-4 innings in a piggyback especially after a righty could be brilliant though. To me he's a guy with 2 tricks up his sleeve and he pulls them both out immediately. There's nothing beyond that to go to when the first look stops being novel.