Spring Training thread

[pacopete4]

On a more serious note, I saw a tweet by one of the brewcrewball guys and it said we offered Cobb 1yr/$12m. Anyone know if that’s true.

[brewmann04]

I think they find a way to keep Miley around but Suter can be a spot starter but worried about him in the rotation.

[TJseven7]

Davies with 5 scoreless.......looks good

 

Could really use a quality April from him this year. He's been an awful slow starter.

[TJseven7]

Eh, you can say it's not a problem but we have 14 big league starts that say it's a big problem. I don't particularly care what he did against minor league hitters where "crafty" plays far better than in the bigs. Agree to disagree on this one because I just don't see any evidence to support your claim.

 

Suter was used in so many ways last year, he wasn't asked to go deep into games for most of the season. But you know what, here's what he did in July when he was starting consistently:

 

6.0

6.1

4.2

6.0

7.0

 

So not only CAN he do it, he has done it. And if 6 innings is what qualifies as a "#3" then Chase Anderson must be a 4/5 since he only averaged a tad higher than 5.5 innings pitched per start.

 

Followed by 3 bad starts in August 14.1 ip 13 era and a 3 week dl stint. Pay no mind.

[markedman5]

On a more serious note, I saw a tweet by one of the brewcrewball guys and it said we offered Cobb 1yr/$12m. Anyone know if that’s true.

 

Heyman had those numbers in his latest column.......never know if I should believe those kind of leaks or not

[82brewcrew82]

Eh, you can say it's not a problem but we have 14 big league starts that say it's a big problem. I don't particularly care what he did against minor league hitters where "crafty" plays far better than in the bigs. Agree to disagree on this one because I just don't see any evidence to support your claim.

 

Suter was used in so many ways last year, he wasn't asked to go deep into games for most of the season. But you know what, here's what he did in July when he was starting consistently:

 

6.0

6.1

4.2

6.0

7.0

 

So not only CAN he do it, he has done it. And if 6 innings is what qualifies as a "#3" then Chase Anderson must be a 4/5 since he only averaged a tad higher than 5.5 innings pitched per start.

So you cherry picked a five start stretch where he BARELY averaged six innings a start and that is what you are going to trumpet? What about the one start before that stretch or the eight after where he could barely go 5 innigns? He had a hand full of starts when he first became a starting pitcher and then the book got out. Plenty of pitchers are just fine in a swing role so I'm not buying that excuse either. He should have been used to starting in August and September but that was when he was at his worst. A for effort though.

[TJseven7]

On a more serious note, I saw a tweet by one of the brewcrewball guys and it said we offered Cobb 1yr/$12m. Anyone know if that’s true.

 

Heyman had those numbers in his latest column.......never know if I should believe those kind of leaks or not

 

You'd think they have feel real good about Nelson Anderson Davies Woodruff Chacin moving to Burnes going foward. Stop gap offer only covers nelson injury and Burnes youth.

[brewcrewdue80]

Eh, you can say it's not a problem but we have 14 big league starts that say it's a big problem. I don't particularly care what he did against minor league hitters where "crafty" plays far better than in the bigs. Agree to disagree on this one because I just don't see any evidence to support your claim.

 

Suter was used in so many ways last year, he wasn't asked to go deep into games for most of the season. But you know what, here's what he did in July when he was starting consistently:

 

6.0

6.1

4.2

6.0

7.0

 

So not only CAN he do it, he has done it. And if 6 innings is what qualifies as a "#3" then Chase Anderson must be a 4/5 since he only averaged a tad higher than 5.5 innings pitched per start.

 

Followed by 3 bad starts in August 14.1 ip 13 era and a 3 week dl stint. Pay no mind.

 

Jimmy Nelson at end of April 3 starts: 15.2IP 15ER Or how about also mid August since you want to pick at Suter's small sample of starts. 2 starts 10IP 12ER with the next start of 5IP 3ER makes two 3 game stints where he allowed 15Run in 15IP.

 

Your partner in debate 82Brewcrew82 as we know after probably 500 posts combined between you two hating the rotation as it sits, really give no upside consideration.

 

His July numbers posted above forgot to point out he allowed a total of 3 runs in those 4 starts. So it's not just arguing he can go 6 or more IP, but he can while giving up few runs. Those starts were 82-97 pitches thrown. His final 3 starts he went 15.1IP so 5 while averaging 69 pitches thrown. It's Counsell's decision to remove him early when he clearly could continue in to a 6th inning possibly in to the 7th. Will Counsell keep him on a short leash this year? We'll find out. He had a 3.45 ERA as a Starter and 3.18 as a RP. Not 4.5 or 5 ERA, but listening to you two talk bad about him or Woodruff you'd think they both were 5ERA pitchers and never pitched in to the 6th innings.

[82brewcrew82]

Your partner in debate 82Brewcrew82 as we know after probably 500 posts combined between you two hating the rotation as it sits, really give no upside consideration.

Thanks for shout out buddy

[DR28]

Hoover continues to pitch well this spring.

 

Yea J.J. definitely made the pen, I really hope Taylor does too.

 

Knebel

Hader

Albers

Hoover

Jeffress

Barnes

Drake (Sad to say)

Gallardo

 

Would rather have Williams over Drake.

[Warning Track Power]

Assuming the leaks about the Brewers offers are accurate, you really have to believe they are very confident about Jimmy Nelson and his recovery. Cobb and Lynn were signed to affordable offers and the Brewers either passed or offered a very short term offer.

 

I am very encouraged if this is the reason they weren’t heavily involved in signing a FA pitcher as Nelson is equal or better to all the FA pitchers.

[82brewcrew82]

Assuming the leaks about the Brewers offers are accurate, you really have to believe they are very confident about Jimmy Nelson and his recovery. Cobb and Lynn were signed to affordable offers and the Brewers either passed or offered a very short term offer.

 

I am very encouraged if this is the reason they weren’t heavily involved in signing a FA pitcher as Nelson is equal or better to all the FA pitchers.

I absolutely applaud Stearns for standing strong and not overreacting and doing something stupid. I am optomistic with Nelson. The news we do have is encouraging. Nelson's rehab and the development of the fantastic four (Woodruff, Ortiz, Burnes and Peralta) are the two things I'm really watching early in the season. In my opinion, they will need Nelson to come back strong and one or two of those youngsters to take steps forward.

[DR28]

Assuming the leaks about the Brewers offers are accurate, you really have to believe they are very confident about Jimmy Nelson and his recovery. Cobb and Lynn were signed to affordable offers and the Brewers either passed or offered a very short term offer.

 

I am very encouraged if this is the reason they weren’t heavily involved in signing a FA pitcher as Nelson is equal or better to all the FA pitchers.

 

Agreed! Thats gotta be the case... Which is great to hear!

 

REALLY like Jimmy has our Ace, he made big strides last year.

 

Looking forward to our 19 rotation

 

Nelson

Anderson

Davies

Chacin

Woodruff/Burnes

 

Damn!

[TJseven7]

"since you want to pick at Suter's small sample of starts."

"His July numbers posted above forgot to point out he allowed a total of 3 runs in those 4 starts. So it's not just arguing he can go 6 or more IP, but he can while giving up few runs. Those starts were 82-97 pitches thrown. His final 3 starts he went 15.1IP so 5 while averaging 69 pitches thrown."

 

You missed my point completely. I'm not pointing to his August numbers as if it proves who he is... I'm saying boasting that he can go deep into games because of July is foolish, especially when the 82-97 5 pack of starts was followed by 3 short starts, bad results and a sore shoulder DL stint.

 

See, to me it looks like those 5 starts wore him out. I love suter... I just dont think he can work deep in games/pitch totals. He'd be a sensational 60 pitch piggyback or long man. At 27 that isn't a great sign for his starting future.

 

So you have

suter who burns out easy

Guerra who isnt fooling anyone, ks down walks up

Miley who is hurt yet probably our best hope to carry innings if his controls back under wraps

Woodruff who we want arby 4 on

 

And I have no rosy feeling about this. Anderson Davies Chacin have to carry this staff in a big way because we need 3.1 era horse nelson back ... yesterday.

[82brewcrew82]

Looking forward to our 19 rotation

 

Nelson

Anderson

Davies

Chacin

Woodruff/Burnes

 

Damn!

2019? May well see that at the end of 2018.

[TJseven7]

Looking forward to our 19 rotation

 

Nelson

Anderson

Davies

Chacin

Woodruff/Burnes

 

Damn!

2019? May well see that at the end of 2018.

 

Expecting both Burnes and Woodruff in June. Woodruff possibly sooner. Nelson who knows... we need him 3 days ago.

[brewmann04]

I think Woodruff takes that 5th spot in the rotation but really be curious to see what Happens with Nelson.

[brewcrewdue80]

"since you want to pick at Suter's small sample of starts."

"His July numbers posted above forgot to point out he allowed a total of 3 runs in those 4 starts. So it's not just arguing he can go 6 or more IP, but he can while giving up few runs. Those starts were 82-97 pitches thrown. His final 3 starts he went 15.1IP so 5 while averaging 69 pitches thrown."

 

You missed my point completely. I'm not pointing to his August numbers as if it proves who he is... I'm saying boasting that he can go deep into games because of July is foolish, especially when the 82-97 5 pack of starts was followed by 3 short starts, bad results and a sore shoulder DL stint.

 

See, to me it looks like those 5 starts wore him out. I love suter... I just dont think he can work deep in games/pitch totals. He'd be a sensational 60 pitch piggyback or long man. At 27 that isn't a great sign for his starting future.

 

So you have

suter who burns out easy

Guerra who isnt fooling anyone, ks down walks up

Miley who is hurt yet probably our best hope to carry innings if his controls back under wraps

Woodruff who we want arby 4 on

 

And I have no rosy feeling about this. Anderson Davies Chacin have to carry this staff in a big way because we need 3.1 era horse nelson back ... yesterday.

 

2017 Minor League starts over 80 pitches-3 of 9 1 being a rehab start.

2016 Minor League starts over 80 pitches-5 of 15 including 3 of last 4 95, 94, 96.

2015 Minor League starts over 80 pitches-12 of 17. 1 over 100 pitches.

 

It is false that he burns out easy. It's strictly a gameplan by Counsell as well as circumstances that limited him being stretched out due to long relief/swingman role vs. an every day starter. His longest outing in July actually came 5 days after a 1IP Relief outing.

[TJseven7]

8 of 23 starts going over 80 pitches in the last 2 years proves your point?

50% in the last 3 years proves your point?

 

80 pitches.

[Eye Black]

I know spring training stats aren’t worth getting worked up over, but Domingo Santana has struck out in half of his plate appearances this spring (46 PA, 43 AB, 23 K, 2 BB). Hopefully it proves meaningless, but not exactly an encouraging sign that he is on the verge of cutting down on his strikeout rate this season.

[clancyphile]

8 of 23 starts going over 80 pitches in the last 2 years proves your point?

50% in the last 3 years proves your point?

 

80 pitches.

 

But if he is constantly jumping between the bullpen and the rotation, how is he supposed to go from 1-3 IP every other day to going 7 innings, and tossing 100+ pitches?

 

Sounds like the answer to, "Blowing out a pitcher's arm for $1,000, Alex."

[brewerfan82]

Looking forward to our 19 rotation

 

Nelson

Anderson

Davies

Chacin

Woodruff/Burnes

 

Damn!

2019? May well see that at the end of 2018.

 

Expecting both Burnes and Woodruff in June. Woodruff possibly sooner. Nelson who knows... we need him 3 days ago.

So by July, we expect Anderson, Davies, Chacin, Woodruff, and Burnes available for the rotation and Nelson due for his return at some point (not to mention the possible reemergence of Guerra or the continued success of Suter). Really I wouldn't be surprised if Cobb/Lynn ended up pitching better or worse than any of those guys by the end of the season. I can see why DS didn't see either of them as "moving the needle" moves that he needed to make. Now legitimately considering starting Miley over those guys... I don't understand that still, but the way things turned out with his injury, I don't mind him as a possible 9th starter depth move.

[LouisEly]

Looking forward to our 19 rotation

 

Nelson

Anderson

Davies

Chacin

Woodruff/Burnes

 

Damn!

2019? May well see that at the end of 2018.

I think the point of the "glad we didn't sign Cobb/etc." crowd is that they didn't want the Brewers to be hamstrung by a long-ish contract when they have so much depth in the upper parts of the minors now.

 

Nelson's injury seems like it isn't as serious as initially speculated, then you have Anderson (who has pitched great the last 1.5 years), Davies (who is only 25), and Chacin as your top four. Then you have Woodruff (top 100 prospect), Burnes (top 50 prospect), Ortiz (borderline top 100 prospect), and Peralta (potential to be top 100) knocking on the door, plus other potential starters (Wilkerson, Perrin, Derby) who are all likely to be in AAA this year, plus the pitchers moving up from A+ to AA (Ponce).

 

Why invest in a multi-year deal when those guys are knocking on the door and can spend the money elsewhere?

[clancyphile]

Looking forward to our 19 rotation

 

Nelson

Anderson

Davies

Chacin

Woodruff/Burnes

 

Damn!

2019? May well see that at the end of 2018.

I think the point of the "glad we didn't sign Cobb/etc." crowd is that they didn't want the Brewers to be hamstrung by a long-ish contract when they have so much depth in the upper parts of the minors now.

 

Nelson's injury seems like it isn't as serious as initially speculated, then you have Anderson (who has pitched great the last 1.5 years), Davies (who is only 25), and Chacin as your top four. Then you have Woodruff (top 100 prospect), Burnes (top 50 prospect), Ortiz (borderline top 100 prospect), and Peralta (potential to be top 100) knocking on the door, plus other potential starters (Wilkerson, Perrin, Derby) who are all likely to be in AAA this year, plus the pitchers moving up from A+ to AA (Ponce).

 

Why invest in a multi-year deal when those guys are knocking on the door and can spend the money elsewhere?

 

Don't forget Brent Suter, who's shown flashes in 2017 as a starter; Angel Ventura, who's only 24 and did pretty well at AAA as a starter; and Junior Guerra, who is likely to bounce back somewhat from 2017 - maybe not 2016 level, but a 4.00-ish ERA at league minimum is quite a bargain.

 

Darvish was really the only pitcher I wanted as a free agent, and I would have made some kind of deal for a Greinke-type pitcher as well. But really, I felt that with the depth, the Crew didn't even need to sign Chacin.

[Never Outhustled]

"since you want to pick at Suter's small sample of starts."

"His July numbers posted above forgot to point out he allowed a total of 3 runs in those 4 starts. So it's not just arguing he can go 6 or more IP, but he can while giving up few runs. Those starts were 82-97 pitches thrown. His final 3 starts he went 15.1IP so 5 while averaging 69 pitches thrown."

 

You missed my point completely. I'm not pointing to his August numbers as if it proves who he is... I'm saying boasting that he can go deep into games because of July is foolish, especially when the 82-97 5 pack of starts was followed by 3 short starts, bad results and a sore shoulder DL stint.

 

See, to me it looks like those 5 starts wore him out. I love suter... I just dont think he can work deep in games/pitch totals. He'd be a sensational 60 pitch piggyback or long man. At 27 that isn't a great sign for his starting future.

 

So you have

suter who burns out easy

Guerra who isnt fooling anyone, ks down walks up

Miley who is hurt yet probably our best hope to carry innings if his controls back under wraps

Woodruff who we want arby 4 on

 

And I have no rosy feeling about this. Anderson Davies Chacin have to carry this staff in a big way because we need 3.1 era horse nelson back ... yesterday.

 

Last thing first, who is Nelson the 3.1 ERA horse? Nelson has never had a 3.1 ERA, and it's hard to call a guy a horse who has just 4 career WAR.

 

Now Suter. I'm amazed at this group that is clinging to this idea that he can't work late into games just because of some numbers last year that were obviously skewed by a shoulder injury that he suffered trying to stretch out mid year after bullpen duty.

 

Keep Suter in the rotation this year, and enjoy the re- incarnation of Mark Buerle. How many realize that Buerle had 15 season where his average fastball was under 86 mph?