Spring Training thread

[liveforoctober]

Concerning Suter, et al ... if we are Anderson, Davies, Chacin, Woodruff in the rotation and don't have a clear #5, doesn't it make a lot of sense to have that 5th spot simply be "Suter/Gallardo/Guerra" and whoever hasn't been used in a long relief role in the last 4 days gets the start and gets through the order once or twice before giving way to the next in line? If Guerra starts, you are likely to get a lineup full of lefties and then Suter can take over in the 4th if Guerra doesn't look electric... he would have a lot of good matchups OR force the opposing manager to start making position changes in the 5th inning.

 

Seems like a great way to put your #5 starter in a great position via matchups, etc

 

I do understand the mentality of a starter knowing you are going to be starting vs not sure until gameday, etc

[Warning Track Power]

Still think Suter would be the exact reason you start piggy back starts. His 1st time through numbers are so impressive. I hate to compare anything mlb with my youth pitching days but all star tourney coach starts me. I literally asked him if he was ok because I had the worse stuff of all the guys on the team. Team we played was incredible but i was control soft junk and those dudes swung at the ball like they wanted to hit it to the moon. A couple innings of slamming bats on the plate after trying to crush a circle change that bottomed out and then comes the 4th inning they settled in and it was time to get me out of there. Our stud goes in and it was a bugs bunny cartoon, we got clobbered. Soft control junk slowed them down because it was strange.

 

Soft tossing strange tempo control is only different for awhile. They see it a few times they barrel up. Suters numbers scream that, I find it funny I experienced the same thing a few times. I love the dude. I think his different approach will always rattle people for a few innings but he needs to change things up after that or they'll adjust ingame. 3-4 innings in a piggyback especially after a righty could be brilliant though. To me he's a guy with 2 tricks up his sleeve and he pulls them both out immediately. There's nothing beyond that to go to when the first look stops being novel.

You need to change your name on this site to The Raptor or Brent Suter. Awesome story about youth pitching!

[clancyphile]

Yea, I'm done with the doubting Suter game. Every step of the way he has surpassed what I thought he could do. As brew pointed out, he did go 6+ in almost 1/3 of his starts. And he could have gone deeper in most of those others. I really don't think he's much different than the vast majority of MLB starters these days in that regard.

 

This misses one point:

Batters adjust to pitchers, but pitchers also adjust to batters. Who's to say that Suter, as he learns hitters, doesn't become more able to pitch deep into games, and becomes not a 4/5 starter, but a 2/3?

 

I think he has earned the opportunity to try to push deeper into games. We still have the relief options to back him up if it doesn't work out.

[TJseven7]

Still think Suter would be the exact reason you start piggy back starts. His 1st time through numbers are so impressive. I hate to compare anything mlb with my youth pitching days but all star tourney coach starts me. I literally asked him if he was ok because I had the worse stuff of all the guys on the team. Team we played was incredible but i was control soft junk and those dudes swung at the ball like they wanted to hit it to the moon. A couple innings of slamming bats on the plate after trying to crush a circle change that bottomed out and then comes the 4th inning they settled in and it was time to get me out of there. Our stud goes in and it was a bugs bunny cartoon, we got clobbered. Soft control junk slowed them down because it was strange.

 

Soft tossing strange tempo control is only different for awhile. They see it a few times they barrel up. Suters numbers scream that, I find it funny I experienced the same thing a few times. I love the dude. I think his different approach will always rattle people for a few innings but he needs to change things up after that or they'll adjust ingame. 3-4 innings in a piggyback especially after a righty could be brilliant though. To me he's a guy with 2 tricks up his sleeve and he pulls them both out immediately. There's nothing beyond that to go to when the first look stops being novel.

You need to change your name on this site to The Raptor or Brent Suter. Awesome story about youth pitching!

 

No need to be a jerk.

[TJseven7]

Yea, I'm done with the doubting Suter game. Every step of the way he has surpassed what I thought he could do. As brew pointed out, he did go 6+ in almost 1/3 of his starts. And he could have gone deeper in most of those others. I really don't think he's much different than the vast majority of MLB starters these days in that regard.

 

This misses one point:

Batters adjust to pitchers, but pitchers also adjust to batters. Who's to say that Suter, as he learns hitters, doesn't become more able to pitch deep into games, and becomes not a 4/5 starter, but a 2/3?

 

I think he has earned the opportunity to try to push deeper into games. We still have the relief options to back him up if it doesn't work out.

 

What alteration does he have that he can go to?

 

Anyway Guerra doing Guerra things in a short stint again. This 4 starter guerra suter combo continuing to look plausible.

[Warning Track Power]

Still think Suter would be the exact reason you start piggy back starts. His 1st time through numbers are so impressive. I hate to compare anything mlb with my youth pitching days but all star tourney coach starts me. I literally asked him if he was ok because I had the worse stuff of all the guys on the team. Team we played was incredible but i was control soft junk and those dudes swung at the ball like they wanted to hit it to the moon. A couple innings of slamming bats on the plate after trying to crush a circle change that bottomed out and then comes the 4th inning they settled in and it was time to get me out of there. Our stud goes in and it was a bugs bunny cartoon, we got clobbered. Soft control junk slowed them down because it was strange.

 

Soft tossing strange tempo control is only different for awhile. They see it a few times they barrel up. Suters numbers scream that, I find it funny I experienced the same thing a few times. I love the dude. I think his different approach will always rattle people for a few innings but he needs to change things up after that or they'll adjust ingame. 3-4 innings in a piggyback especially after a righty could be brilliant though. To me he's a guy with 2 tricks up his sleeve and he pulls them both out immediately. There's nothing beyond that to go to when the first look stops being novel.

You need to change your name on this site to The Raptor or Brent Suter. Awesome story about youth pitching!

 

No need to be a jerk.

I was being serious man. I truly appreciated the story. Sorry if it didn't come off that way.

[TJseven7]

Ha! Sorry, used to pervasive snark around here.

 

It was a strange day. Saw the lineup card, double took, looked at coach with my arms hanging with an exasperated "are you nuts" look on my face. I pitched, if you can call it that but I made the team as OF/SS. We had pitchers. Good ones. I wasn't one of those. Asked him why... He smiled and said, "humor me, I got an idea." He knew who we were playing and tried to pull a rabbit out of a hat. I was said rabbit. Walked out there and thought... ok... good bye ball. Then a bunch of over swings and balls spiked into the ground. 4th inning they smoked me but right at the defense. Time to go. Left with a lead like 2-0 and in came our big strong whistling fastball pitcher who iced him arm after starts. I never iced my arm. Why would I? I don't throw hard enough to strain anything. I could throw 18 innings without wearing out if allowed. It was that slow and then slower. I think we are going to win for sure now cuz this guys better. I've faced him. He's beamed me and it sucked. 1st pitch got hit on a line to the fence. 2 pitchers went the rest of the way and we lost by roughly 10. I thought they'd kill me. They thought they'd kill me. They tried too hard and the defense stole us 4 innings. As soon as they got a normal look it was a rout.

 

And I see fragments of that in suter. Id expect him to get better as the competition gets better aka majors out perform minors. He's releasing a ball as fast as a batting cage but its up down in out moving and seems to hit cold regions on their batting chart. They don't get to process the ab. They get made uncomfortable. I mean, was it judge, never stepped out of the batters box. It's crazy. It's 1 more thing to mess a batter up. They are used to mid 90s and then this stuff just gets in their head. Makes them slow down. Messes up timing. And he's adaptable and not fragile. Just go out there and do your thing. The woodruff start showed that. But his stuff doesn't lead me to believe he has an alteration and as soon as the comfort level settles, its game on. He's too crafty to be used as a throw away long man but that piggyback idea seems made for him. 2 times through max. Especially after a rhp. The more lefties in the lineup the better. Guerra through 4 was sub 4 era. Suter through 3 was brilliant. Screams magic trick potential and the 8 man pen makes it possible.

[TJseven7]

I want Williams in this pen.

 

Happy for nottingham too. Could really use an offensive plus year.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

It’s ST but that Mikolas guy the Cardinals signed back from Japan or Korea (forget which one) has been an absolute bum in his 2 starts. Usually wouldn’t read much in to it but as a guy who hasn’t pitched in MLB in a few years and was bad when he was last here and now his first time back he’s sucked in both outings, they have to be worried a bit.

[adambr2]

I really want Brett Phillips to force his way onto the 25 man roster and not give them a reason to start him out in Colorado Springs, but man, not making a very compelling case so far.

[TJseven7]

I really want Brett Phillips to force his way onto the 25 man roster and not give them a reason to start him out in Colorado Springs, but man, not making a very compelling case so far.

 

Its just not in the cards for him with this roster as is. The 1 guy who I wanted to see leave no doubt was Woodruff and that's not going well so far. Guerra and freaking Miley have gotten off to a better start and it's got to be giving CC and stearns more interest in starting off with the vets to keep system depth in place.

[pacopete4]

Keeping the depth in the system is another big reason I’m rooting for Miley and Gallardo because we are going to need a lot of pitching and this could help us later in the year.

[jerichoholicninja]

I really want Brett Phillips to force his way onto the 25 man roster and not give them a reason to start him out in Colorado Springs, but man, not making a very compelling case so far.

 

Even if he were to homer every at bat this spring I don't see how he would make the team. He'd be the 5th OF and rarely play.

[brewmann04]

i guess his best chance to get full time work is in triple A

[Lathund]

I really want Brett Phillips to force his way onto the 25 man roster and not give them a reason to start him out in Colorado Springs, but man, not making a very compelling case so far.

 

Even if he were to homer every at bat this spring I don't see how he would make the team. He'd be the 5th OF and rarely play.

 

It all depends on the other moves. If Santana and Aguilar are gone, then Phillips makes perfect sense as a part-time RF and the 4th OF. The OF market doesn't look very hot though, so Santana might be here for a while yet.

[JohnBriggs12]

That’s fair. I just don’t expect him to be anywhere near a sub 4 ERA pitcher this year if he’s just thrown in the rotation. If he’s protected a bit as a piggy back guy, not allowed to face orders 3rd time through, long relief, spot starts vs a team with optimal splits, etc... sure. But if he’s just given 20-25+ starts I expect a mid-high 4s ERA as his floor and probably worse.

 

I really don't see any reason why anyone would think he would be a high 4's ERA for a season as a starter. He's never performed at that level at any point in his entire career. He's a 3.5 ERA in the majors through 16 starts, granted limited innings in some. If he's the 4/5 starter they aren't expecting him to go past 5 more than maybe 1/3 of the time, which he does. There's no evidence at all to back up projecting a high 4's ERA. I honestly think he's going to be a bright spot this year.

 

I tend to agree with you. The game has changed. Teams are fairly routinely carrying 13 pitchers. Other than the Cubs or the Nats, there aren't many teams with more than a couple of starters that go deep in games. Dodgers are a prime example. Kershaw's the stud, and the rest of the starters had nice ERA's but often were pulled after 5. It appears the Brewer approach is to have one or two "starters" sitting in their pen to handle middle inning duties for their 4th and 5th starters.

[adambr2]

E3 from Braun at 1st leads to a run. Didn't see the play.

[MadThinker88]

E3 from Braun at 1st leads to a run. Didn't see the play.

 

Neither did I. Tribe is not showing any ST Tribe games this weekend.

 

Kipnis has a monster chip on his shoulder. Size of a bowling ball. Launched his 5th homer 2 batters later..

[NYChez]

Gallardo, with 3 walks in 2 innings, is not helping his cause. With the other options available, I don’t see him making the team.

[pacopete4]

per McCalvy

Gallardo's ERA is 7.20 after 2.1ip, 4h, 3er, 3bb. Counsell said look beyond the box score. “I almost foresaw some walks happening because we’re asking him to pitch differently. But I’m happy to see him continue on this path. ... I don’t think they’re getting good swings off him."

[TJseven7]

per McCalvy

Gallardo's ERA is 7.20 after 2.1ip, 4h, 3er, 3bb. Counsell said look beyond the box score. “I almost foresaw some walks happening because we’re asking him to pitch differently. But I’m happy to see him continue on this path. ... I don’t think they’re getting good swings off him."

 

Gross. You can sell me on short starts from guerra and maybe redeption #5 miley but Gallardo actually looks bad.

 

Why are we hell bent on having a milone on the roster.

[wildcat83]

per McCalvy

Gallardo's ERA is 7.20 after 2.1ip, 4h, 3er, 3bb. Counsell said look beyond the box score. “I almost foresaw some walks happening because we’re asking him to pitch differently. But I’m happy to see him continue on this path. ... I don’t think they’re getting good swings off him."

 

Gross. You can sell me on short starts from guerra and maybe redeption #5 miley but Gallardo actually looks bad.

 

Why are we hell bent on having a milone on the roster.

 

Careers of Gallardo and Millone are vastly different. Far too early in Spring to care about this when you have no idea what he's been working on or how he's "looked" doing what the pitching coaches are asking him to change. The results right now for veterans mean nothing.

[jerichoholicninja]

per McCalvy

Gallardo's ERA is 7.20 after 2.1ip, 4h, 3er, 3bb. Counsell said look beyond the box score. “I almost foresaw some walks happening because we’re asking him to pitch differently. But I’m happy to see him continue on this path. ... I don’t think they’re getting good swings off him."

 

Gross. You can sell me on short starts from guerra and maybe redeption #5 miley but Gallardo actually looks bad.

 

Why are we hell bent on having a milone on the roster.

 

Careers of Gallardo and Millone are vastly different. Far too early in Spring to care about this when you have no idea what he's been working on or how he's "looked" doing what the pitching coaches are asking him to change. The results right now for veterans mean nothing.

 

Well, yes, it was talked about that they're trying some new things with Gallardo but the old things were pretty sucky too. I was actually kind of glad to see that he got pounded today and then saw Counsell's comments. Sorry folks, he's making this team just about no matter what happens.

[Never Outhustled]

CC has said good things about almost every pitcher in the mix, including Williams, Woodruff, Barnes, Jeffress, Miley, Hoover, Guerra, and Suter. I'm not seeing favoritism towards Gallardo. He is unlikely to make the team, management have him a non-guaranteed deal, and then signed others for a reason.

[TJseven7]

Doesn't matter if gallardo had a better career. That guys been gone for awhile and just because you change stuff doesn't mean it works. All these guys are throwing crap against the wall to see if it sticks and that's fine until you let the garbage linger into the season to see if they can eventually figure it out. We did that last year. We have enough promising options this year. He should be sent to figure it out in AAA and if someone else wants him... good luck to them.