Lucroy

[TJseven7]

We won't be getting much of anything for Thames or Auguilar. They are worth more to us a two headed 1B once we clear the OF mess than they would on the open market.

 

 

Thames for McCarthy isn't a big asking price.

Why we'd get pazos for Aguilar... no idea. Why we'd immediately promote pazos to the 8th inning slot... no idea.

 

I wouldn't deal jacob barnes for aguilar. Although a bit worse than Pazos... Barnes isnt going to sniff that 8th inning role this year.

[pacopete4]

There's no fit, it appears, for free-agent catcher and former Brewers All-Star Jonathan Lucroy.

 

"We know Luc well and he had a really nice career here and left a lot of really valuable memories," Stearns said. "I think we also have confidence in our current catching group. In general, I think we got pretty meaningful production from our catching group last year. Obviously, we have a decision to make there at some point in Spring Training. I think that's likely the group we end up going with."

[superfly]

I really feel like there's a TON of "good old gang back together" vibe going on with Lucroy. If his name was somebody else like Russell Martin, Joe Mauer, Yasmani Grandal (similar production guys) I would venture a guess there would be much more lukewarm opinions on the subject.

 

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but IMO paying anything north of 2 mil/yr for Lucroy at this point is a dumb financial decision...PITCHING, PITCHING, PITCHING. I'd rather overpay pitching help with that extra 2-4 million per.

[pacopete4]

I really feel like there's a TON of "good old gang back together" vibe going on with Lucroy. If his name was somebody else like Russell Martin, Joe Mauer, Yasmani Grandal (similar production guys) I would venture a guess there would be much more lukewarm opinions on the subject.

 

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but IMO paying anything north of 2 mil/yr for Lucroy at this point is a dumb financial decision...PITCHING, PITCHING, PITCHING. I'd rather overpay pitching help with that extra 2-4 million per.

 

-Russell Martin caught 80 games a season ago, is terrible and will be 35.

-Joe Mauer? That’s your comp? He’s not a catcher. Lol next.

-Grandal? Sign me up!

 

If Luc could be had for cheap for two seasons it’s a no brained because Vogt is a turd defensively. Is Lucroy an ex-Brewer? Yeah I think we all know and have established that but for some that has no effect on why I’d like to see us add Luc. Generalizing people is not a great idea. Oh and of course we need more pitching but we can still upgrade other parts of our team. When the catchers spot becomes a second pitcher hitting by June or it’s a merry go round out there because Vogt bounces every throw, we can revisit this.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I feel like with a lot of ex-Brewers, there always springs up any number of "let's bring back Sheets/Lucroy/Hart/Weeks/Prince/Jenkins/Burnitz/etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, repeat ad nauseum" threads.

 

They are favorites, guys we know, they're familiar, comfortable, whatever..... but yeah. When there's usually cheaper, better younger options available, and there's almost always reasons the team moved on from those guys to begin with.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Lucroy isn't the same player guys, lets close the book on this one.

[TJseven7]

I'm not a nostalgia guy... I'm pretty happy to drop the hot potato before it goes cold. Even too soon at times. Luc isnt 2 years ago luc. But lets face it... vogt sucked and hopefully pina didn't just have a villar 1 off at the plate.

 

I've consistently said pina starts. But the market is so low on filler guys that I feel luc would be a value and quality insurance at this point.

 

You really wouldn't pay 3 mil more to have luc than vogt?

 

I want cobb but after that if they want to stick with villar sogard I'd like to improve catcher a bit and cutting vogt gallardo to open 5 of the 6 or 7 luc would command is a no brainer to me. If there are better younger cheaper options than luc Im all ears but that doesnt appear to be vogt or bandy.

[KCBrewerfan34]

So that would be 5.5 for Lucroy. NO way. Not this off-season. I think Stearns agrees.

[brewerfan82]

Just for a stats/non-nostalgia based reference:

 

[pre]2018 ZiPS Projections

Player Age PA AVG OBP SLG OPS wRC+ zWAR zWAR / PA

Lucroy 32 482 .298 .365 .449 .814 98 1.7 0.00353

Pina 31 339 .248 .299 .386 .685 76 1.2 0.00354

Vogt 33 405 .259 .314 .450 .764 94 1.1 0.00272

 

2018 Steamer Projections

Player Age PA AVG OBP SLG OPS wRC+ WAR WAR / PA

Lucroy 32 414 .270 .344 .424 .768 102 2.4 0.00580

Pina 31 214 .251 .307 .389 .696 79 0.7 0.00327

Vogt 33 220 .257 .318 .442 .760 94 0.8 0.00364[/pre]

[TJseven7]

The other point... look at lucroys last few.

 

28 was great

29 fell off a cliff

30 was AS level

31 off a cliff

 

Not sure how you lose it twice in 3 years with a monster year inbetween. I'd assume he tops last years marks. 1 year deal only but I'd buy low here.

[pacopete4]

For me, it’s about avoiding black holes in the lineup. Our 1-6 should be scary this year. Our 7-9 (obviously pitcher spot) could flat out suck. I’m not sold that Pina is 110-115 gamer that can repeat the offensively display and Vogt doesn’t belong on the 25 if he plays defense the way he did at the end of the year.

[TJseven7]

Curiosity... who is your 6th?

 

Not sure I include arcia 2b or C in the scary good category.

[superfly]

I really feel like there's a TON of "good old gang back together" vibe going on with Lucroy. If his name was somebody else like Russell Martin, Joe Mauer, Yasmani Grandal (similar production guys) I would venture a guess there would be much more lukewarm opinions on the subject.

 

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but IMO paying anything north of 2 mil/yr for Lucroy at this point is a dumb financial decision...PITCHING, PITCHING, PITCHING. I'd rather overpay pitching help with that extra 2-4 million per.

 

-Russell Martin caught 80 games a season ago, is terrible and will be 35.

-Joe Mauer? That’s your comp? He’s not a catcher. Lol next.

-Grandal? Sign me up!

 

If Luc could be had for cheap for two seasons it’s a no brained because Vogt is a turd defensively. Is Lucroy an ex-Brewer? Yeah I think we all know and have established that but for some that has no effect on why I’d like to see us add Luc. Generalizing people is not a great idea. Oh and of course we need more pitching but we can still upgrade other parts of our team. When the catchers spot becomes a second pitcher hitting by June or it’s a merry go round out there because Vogt bounces every throw, we can revisit this.

 

You made my point. All three are turds, just like Lucroy is. And Mauer was signed as an overpaid Catcher that got shoved to 1B. Lucroy will end up at 1B too.

[DHonks]

Lucroy isn't the same player guys, lets close the book on this one.

 

Yes, because guys in their 30s never have good years or perform above expectations. Some teams have gotten lots of mileage out of guys in their 30s. Pudge was very good. David Ortiz was written off as “done” several times. Jamie Moyer was—at best— a halfway decent player until his 30s. Luck likely has several solid years left in him, and playing part-time may allow him to thrive. Didn’t we have a good run with washed up catchers in the 90s? Joe Oliver, Brian Harper. Anyone else?

[coolhandluke121]

The other point... look at lucroys last few.

 

28 was great

29 fell off a cliff

30 was AS level

31 off a cliff

 

Not sure how you lose it twice in 3 years with a monster year inbetween. I'd assume he tops last years marks. 1 year deal only but I'd buy low here.

 

Yeah, I tried to mention that earlier. Just the fact the Lucroy has had really bad years alternating with good ones before. You could arguably put 2011/2012 (.703/.881) in there too, although he was 25 and only in his 2nd year in 2011. But maybe he's just a rhythm/confidence hitter, like Weeks and Hart, and has another good year left. Unlike Weeks and Hart, he hasn't have any injuries that would suggest a long-term inability to produce.

 

I wouldn't doubt that his defense being down will continue though.

[mlloyd10]

No thanks to Lucroy - Move on

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Lucroy isn't the same player guys, lets close the book on this one.

 

Yes, because guys in their 30s never have good years or perform above expectations. Some teams have gotten lots of mileage out of guys in their 30s. Pudge was very good. David Ortiz was written off as “done” several times. Jamie Moyer was—at best— a halfway decent player until his 30s. Luck likely has several solid years left in him, and playing part-time may allow him to thrive. Didn’t we have a good run with washed up catchers in the 90s? Joe Oliver, Brian Harper. Anyone else?

 

Rick Dempsey in 1991. Dave Valle in 1994. They seemed to cycle through a lot of catchers during those Surhoff/Nilsson years.

 

More recently, Jason Kendall, Damian Miller, Eddie Perez and Greg Zaun all fall into that category.

[brewcrewdue80]

Lucroy has no reason to sign with Milwaukee. Pina is the Starting Catcher. 1 year deal? What's Lucroy going to gain with under 80 games played?

 

This to me is another case of Player won't bat over 800OPS so he must be replaced by someone who has that ability. Who Cares on the defense difference. Pina>Lucroy on Defense Arcia>90% of ML SS on Defense.

 

Or the fear that Lucroy will put up AS numbers this year and we missed out by not signing him. Walker puts up solid numbers, our 2b don't. Well here we are under 40 days away from Opening Day and neither are signed by any other team. ST games start in 4 days. We'll get a live look how Pina/Villar did over the offseason. You can change your decision on playing these two still at this point.

[superfly]

Lucroy isn't the same player guys, lets close the book on this one.

 

Yes, because guys in their 30s never have good years or perform above expectations. Some teams have gotten lots of mileage out of guys in their 30s. Pudge was very good. David Ortiz was written off as “done” several times. Jamie Moyer was—at best— a halfway decent player until his 30s. Luck likely has several solid years left in him, and playing part-time may allow him to thrive. Didn’t we have a good run with washed up catchers in the 90s? Joe Oliver, Brian Harper. Anyone else?

 

Rick Dempsey in 1991. Dave Valle in 1994. They seemed to cycle through a lot of catchers during those Surhoff/Nilsson years.

 

More recently, Jason Kendall, Damian Miller, Eddie Perez and Greg Zaun all fall into that category.

 

Sigh...Gregg Zaun.

[TURBO]

Brewers' general manager David Stearns said Sunday that the club is content with their trio of catchers and they aren't interested in a possible reunion with Jonathan Lucroy.

 

Lucroy continues to sit on the open market as spring camps have opened throughout Florida and Arizona, but a reunion in Milwaukee doesn't seem to be in the cards. The Brewers will enter the season with Manny Pina, Stephen Vogt and Jett Bandy behind the dish.

 

Source: Tom Haudricourt on TwitterFeb 18 - 10:43 PM

[Devinep]

I don’t get why people are talking about Lucroy like he’s washed up and incompetent now. He is still on the top half of hitting catchers and hit better with COL even considering Park.

 

Still, he’s unlikely to want to sign with the Brewers when he could regenerate interest by becoming the clear #1 on Oakland or Washington (who’d also fit his preference of a competitor) and having a good year catching 100+ games.

[coolhandluke121]

Brewers' general manager David Stearns said Sunday that the club is content with their trio of catchers and they aren't interested in a possible reunion with Jonathan Lucroy.

 

Lucroy continues to sit on the open market as spring camps have opened throughout Florida and Arizona, but a reunion in Milwaukee doesn't seem to be in the cards. The Brewers will enter the season with Manny Pina, Stephen Vogt and Jett Bandy behind the dish.

 

Source: Tom Haudricourt on TwitterFeb 18 - 10:43 PM

 

Better hope Pina is a true late bloomer, which would be pretty rare. I think he's probably a little closer to his post-ASB numbers this year.

 

I don't support a lot of win-now moves, but Vogt/Bandy doesn't exactly make you less nervous about regression from Pina. I wonder what the Marlins are asking for Realmuto?

[bill hAll Star]

and hit better with COL even considering Park.

 

Away games with the Rockies (small sample):

 

76 PA, .238/.355/.317/.673 0 HR.

[Devinep]

and hit better with COL even considering Park.

 

Away games with the Rockies (small sample):

 

76 PA, .238/.355/.317/.673 0 HR.

 

Of course Rockies hit worse on the road (most players do) playing in a string division with pitchers parks mostly

[bill hAll Star]

and hit better with COL even considering Park.

 

Away games with the Rockies (small sample):

 

76 PA, .238/.355/.317/.673 0 HR.

 

Of course Rockies hit worse on the road (most players do) playing in a string division with pitchers parks mostly

 

Sure, but I guess the idea is that he was still 2017 Lucroy in that small sample on the road. His bump up in production was the Coors effect that any other player that contacts the baseball well has, probably. Small enough sample that we'll never know, but just saying his time on the Rockies does not sway me that he "figured it out" again.