FA Pitchers

[wallus]

Stearns built this roster to compete based on having average or above average players in as many positions as possible. Yes, some playoff teams got away with having poor 4th and 5th starters but they also have studs at the top of the rotation. The Brewers need to have 5 starting pitchers that are average or above average. I do not see any reason to believe that Miley and Gallardo fit in that. I would much rather give those two spots to Suter, Woodruff or Guerra.

 

And they might go to those guys either to start the season or after one or both of Gallardo/Miley flame out like a lot are predicting. He's building depth and creating opportunities for cheap production from guys who have done it before. If either of those guys come through, it is a win for the Milwaukee Brewers. They have shown to have a short leash with some of these guys and those two will most likely be on that short leash if they earn the opportunity on this team. I don't think this has to be a one or the other situation.

 

The problem with that is you throw away games in the early part of the year trying to hope that a "proven" vet made some adjustment or got unlucky. We likely make the playoffs last season without throwing Malone and Feliz out there to keep "depth".

[And That]

The problem with that is you throw away games in the early part of the year trying to hope that a "proven" vet made some adjustment or got unlucky. We likely make the playoffs last season without throwing Malone and Feliz out there to keep "depth".

Feliz was a joke of a signing (still waiting for that "haul") but the counterpoint to that is the Brewers absolutely make the playoffs last year if they'd have signed Charlie Morton, a vet coming off a nothing year. Not quite the same situation, but I remember being thrown under the bus last offseason for even bringing Morton up.

 

Edit: The Morton bus, for reference. Garza and Peralta were just too much depth.

[wallus]

The problem with that is you throw away games in the early part of the year trying to hope that a "proven" vet made some adjustment or got unlucky. We likely make the playoffs last season without throwing Malone and Feliz out there to keep "depth".

Feliz was a joke of a signing (still waiting for that "haul") but the counterpoint to that is the Brewers absolutely make the playoffs last year if they'd have signed Charlie Morton, a vet coming off a nothing year. Not quite the same situation, but I remember being thrown under the bus last offseason for even bringing Morton up.

 

Yes but wouldn't you rather bet on youth and pitchers you have years of control on?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The problem with that is you throw away games in the early part of the year trying to hope that a "proven" vet made some adjustment or got unlucky. We likely make the playoffs last season without throwing Malone and Feliz out there to keep "depth".

Feliz was a joke of a signing (still waiting for that "haul") but the counterpoint to that is the Brewers absolutely make the playoffs last year if they'd have signed Charlie Morton, a vet coming off a nothing year. Not quite the same situation, but I remember being thrown under the bus last offseason for even bringing Morton up.

 

But I thought that veteran pitchers coming off injury or poor performance can't rebound?

 

In all seriousness, it does make a lot of sense to give "proven track record" guys like Gallardo and Miley, and to a lesser extent Guerra a shot to see if they can rebound. Honestly, Trevor Cahill is another guy that I wouldn't mind signing to a minor league deal. I guess I'd prefer that shot come in AAA as insurance, though.

[And That]

Yes but wouldn't you rather bet on youth and pitchers you have years of control on?

Sure but signing a Morton or Miley doesn't preclude you from relying on young controllable players. When Jeremy Jeffress was starting a game in a playoff race last September, it's because the Brewers ran out of youth and control.

[pacopete4]

Yes but wouldn't you rather bet on youth and pitchers you have years of control on?

Sure but signing a Morton or Miley doesn't preclude you from relying on young controllable players. When Jeremy Jeffress was starting a game in a playoff race last September, it's because the Brewers ran out of youth and control.

To add on, youth and control are very nice things but it doesn't always get you where you need to go either. Say we don't sign any vets and we rely on all the youth we have with control and they burn out right away. Now, where do you go? With guys pitching fewer and fewer innings every year, it is good that we are looking at other outside options to come in and get us through the 900 or so inning we are going to need from our starting pitching.

[wallus]

Another point I should have made is money savings. Not having Gallardo and Miley on the mlb roster will save millions that can be used elsewhere.

[FVBrewerFan]

Another point I should have made is money savings. Not having Gallardo and Miley on the mlb roster will save millions that can be used elsewhere.

 

Their salaries would not prevent the Brewers from doing anything else they wanted to do.

[wallus]

Another point I should have made is money savings. Not having Gallardo and Miley on the mlb roster will save millions that can be used elsewhere.

 

Their salaries would not prevent the Brewers from doing anything else they wanted to do.

 

The Brewers had the lowest payroll in baseball last year and now they don't care about millions of dollars?

[KeithStone53151]

Yes but wouldn't you rather bet on youth and pitchers you have years of control on?

Sure but signing a Morton or Miley doesn't preclude you from relying on young controllable players. When Jeremy Jeffress was starting a game in a playoff race last September, it's because the Brewers ran out of youth and control.

 

I see the point you are making and it was on full display last year. I can generally understand the argument for opening the year with the slightly worse guy that doesn't have options versus with the guy who is slightly better but has options. I feel like Woodruff and Williams are guys that could potentially fall into that "slightly better but has options" group. The extreme example...knebel has options, should he open in AAA to preserve depth and have gallardo open with the club? Obviously not. There comes a point where you simply have to put the best player on your roster and let him solidify himself. And that is definitely variable based on the rest of the system. We have so many other players that could fill in well if Williams opens with the team. We have a good number of SP options in AAA available, not quite as many as bullpen but better than most years past. For me, Williams is a no brainer. It will be a pretty awful decision if he doesn't open with the mlb club. I'm not entirely convinced that Woodruff would be that much better than Miley. Probably better than Suter, but not Miley. I think if we add a Cobb or Arrieta, it might be the right decision to open with Woodruff in AAA.

 

We'll see how it shakes out. Haudricourt had tweeted that MLB execs had told him the FA SP would need to sign by end of the week to be ready for opening day. I'm about ready for something to happen.

[FVBrewerFan]

Another point I should have made is money savings. Not having Gallardo and Miley on the mlb roster will save millions that can be used elsewhere.

 

Their salaries would not prevent the Brewers from doing anything else they wanted to do.

 

The Brewers had the lowest payroll in baseball last year and now they don't care about millions of dollars?

 

I don't remember saying they "don't care" about millions of dollars. Obviously this year is different than last year, and you know that. Yes, I do know that paying Yo $2MM on a one year deal will not prevent them from doing anything else they want to do.

[wallus]

 

Yes, I do know that paying Yo $2MM on a one year deal will not prevent them from doing anything else they want to do.

 

What is the budget limit then if you know?

 

Spending money on the Sogards, Gallardos, Mileys of the world is a really Milwaukee Bucks way to do things.

[pacopete4]

 

Yes, I do know that paying Yo $2MM on a one year deal will not prevent them from doing anything else they want to do.

 

What is the budget limit then if you know?

 

Spending money on the Sogards, Gallardos, Mileys of the world is a really Milwaukee Bucks way to do things.

 

Apples to oranges. Brewers spent money to build depth. Very minimal money to do it too. You just don’t like the players and want to see the youth play first. It just may not happen that way.

[coolhandluke121]

I think some people are reading too much into the Gallardo and Miley signings. Others are trying a little too hard to talk themselves into it. Every team invites a bunch of cast-offs to spring training without any expectation of them making the team. Just because Stearns thinks these cast-offs were a little better than the others doesn't mean he they're anything more than long shots. I continue to hope that Suter, Woodruff, and eventually Burnes are the top choices, and if anything they'll try to sign a starter to replace one of them. I also hope Williams and maybe Houser get thrown into the fire, but I can see the logic to keeping Gallardo and Guerra for long relief.

 

That said, scouting is everything. If a guy looks really good in a spring training, he'll get a chance. Woodruff, Williams, and Houser have options and it doesn't hurt to save them for later if you're not sure they're better than the alternatives. I think they will be though.

[superfly]

 

Yes, I do know that paying Yo $2MM on a one year deal will not prevent them from doing anything else they want to do.

 

What is the budget limit then if you know?

 

Spending money on the Sogards, Gallardos, Mileys of the world is a really Milwaukee Bucks way to do things.

 

No, the Milwaukee Bucks way of doing things is signing Bobby Simmons and Miles Plumlee to 50 million dollar ludicrous contracts, not taking small $ fliers on once decent players they think they can make better.

[tmwiese55]

Yea the Bucks would have given Gallardo 5 years 70 mil rather than trading him like the Brewers did.

[FVBrewerFan]

 

Yes, I do know that paying Yo $2MM on a one year deal will not prevent them from doing anything else they want to do.

 

What is the budget limit then if you know?

 

Spending money on the Sogards, Gallardos, Mileys of the world is a really Milwaukee Bucks way to do things.

 

Budget limit is higher that $2MM more. Every deal stands on it's own merit. They obviously want to another pitcher in the rotation, but not at any price. So their max salary is a static number, it is not etched in stone.

 

Difference is two-fold. The Bucks have a salary cap, so a bad move DOES tie up money that could be spent elsewhere. Secondly, the Bucks bad signings are generally longer term contracts.

 

I'm not even arguing they should have those guys in the rotation. I'm just saying financially it won't make a difference. If it's up to me, I'm rolling with Woodruff and Wilkerson until Nelson gets back. I would even consider Perrin or Derby for the 5th spot.

[KeithStone53151]

I think some people are reading too much into the Gallardo and Miley signings. Others are trying a little too hard to talk themselves into it. Every team invites a bunch of cast-offs to spring training without any expectation of them making the team. Just because Stearns thinks these cast-offs were a little better than the others doesn't mean he they're anything more than long shots. I continue to hope that Suter, Woodruff, and eventually Burnes are the top choices, and if anything they'll try to sign a starter to replace one of them. I also hope Williams and maybe Houser get thrown into the fire, but I can see the logic to keeping Gallardo and Guerra for long relief.

 

That said, scouting is everything. If a guy looks really good in a spring training, he'll get a chance. Woodruff, Williams, and Houser have options and it doesn't hurt to save them for later if you're not sure they're better than the alternatives. I think they will be though.

 

I find this fairly spot on. Every team brings in castoffs, but sometimes you will find a guy that impresses in spring and has a big year. Look at what we got from Aguilar last year, I bet nobody expected him to make the 25 man to open the year...not before spring training anyway.

 

I've said it before, but for me...I think it will be a huge mistake to open Williams in AAA. That handful of weeks of him in AAA over some Gallardo or Guerra could decide a couple games and make a huge difference down the line. I think Williams is THAT much better than those guys...that you have to throw the options/depth/service time argument out the window. The argument is better with Houser/Woodruff...with Williams though, he's too good to put back in AAA.

[pacopete4]

Why is Williams too good again? Had a good k-rate in AA but other numbers are just alright. And he was equal to the age of the league so it’s not like he was playing up. He was a great story a year ago and I’m hoping he’s a stud but it might be kind of early to anoint him too good to use his options.

[wallus]

Why is Williams too good again? Had a good k-rate in AA but other numbers are just alright. And he was equal to the age of the league so it’s not like he was playing up. He was a great story a year ago and I’m hoping he’s a stud but it might be kind of early to anoint him too good to use his options.

 

He was dominant in the games I have seen so far this spring and to end out the year last year. (yes small sample alert) I would like him to be in the pen and try him out in low leverage situations.

[coolhandluke121]

I agree that Williams looked very good. Just seemed like people would have a lot of trouble hitting him, especially in a relief role after seeing a slow cheese starter like Suter or Davies.

[Boomer5]

Williams has a violent delivery. I'd like him in relief. Seems like he wouldn't last 100 pitches.

[82brewcrew82]

The problem with that is you throw away games in the early part of the year trying to hope that a "proven" vet made some adjustment or got unlucky. We likely make the playoffs last season without throwing Malone and Feliz out there to keep "depth".

Feliz was a joke of a signing (still waiting for that "haul") but the counterpoint to that is the Brewers absolutely make the playoffs last year if they'd have signed Charlie Morton, a vet coming off a nothing year. Not quite the same situation, but I remember being thrown under the bus last offseason for even bringing Morton up.

 

But I thought that veteran pitchers coming off injury or poor performance can't rebound?

 

In all seriousness, it does make a lot of sense to give "proven track record" guys like Gallardo and Miley, and to a lesser extent Guerra a shot to see if they can rebound. Honestly, Trevor Cahill is another guy that I wouldn't mind signing to a minor league deal. I guess I'd prefer that shot come in AAA as insurance, though.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I agree that Williams looked very good. Just seemed like people would have a lot of trouble hitting him, especially in a relief role after seeing a slow cheese starter like Suter or Davies.

 

I agree, he's got nasty stuff. With the injury history I'd feel safer with him in a relief role, though. I'd love to see him make the pen out of spring training.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

My biggest problem or fear with having all of Williams, Woodruff, Suter, etc make the team out of camp is it likely means 1-2 of Miley, Gallardo and Guerra are cut. That provides a potential depth problem down the road in event of injuries, young guys hitting innings limits, guys sucking, regression, Jimmy not coming back, etc. having Woodruff or Sutter start in the minors and 2-3 of Gallardo, Gerra, Miley make the OD roster help hedge against that a bit. This especially makes sense if none of them show you there is a discernible talent gap.