Domingo Santana - round 2

[bill hAll Star]

Are the Domingo/Ortiz to the Rays for Archer rumors for reel?

 

As far as I can tell, this was from random guy on twitter trolling/joking.

[bill hAll Star]

Santana to Arizona for Corbin is a rumor circulating. Other players are involved but no details. Arizona hesitating until Martinez signs.

 

Gross. If that’s all that Santana is used for. Gross.

 

The update/article seems to suggest more would have to come back to the Brewers.

[Brewers21]

Who would be the additional players from Arizona to make the trade work?

[PeaveyFury]

Are the Domingo/Ortiz to the Rays for Archer rumors for reel?

 

As far as I can tell, this was from random guy on twitter trolling/joking.

 

You mean a UWM film student may not have inside sources???

[Fear The Chorizo]

Santana's best fit as a trade piece has to be the Indians or the red sox (if they don't sign martinez).

 

I don't want the brewers to move him unless they get equal value in return...which is far more than 1-2 years of a middling starting pitcher, imo

[TJseven7]

Who would be the additional players from Arizona to make the trade work?

 

Their top 2 prospects. 2 top 100s... Smith a mid 60s contact plus 1b, Duplanteir a barely top 100 pitcher.

 

Smith, duplanteir and corbin for Santana would be a smart, a little boost now but value in prospects later deal. Like anderson diaz for segura.

[brewmann04]

need at least one more pitcher i believe

[Cire52]

Who would be the additional players from Arizona to make the trade work?

 

Their top 2 prospects. 2 top 100s... Smith a mid 60s contact plus 1b, Duplanteir a barely top 100 pitcher.

 

Smit, duplanteir and corbin for Santana would be a smart, a little boost now but value in prospects later deal. Like anderson diaz for segura.

 

If you think we can acquire Pavin Smith, Jon Duplantier, and Patrick Corbin for just Domingo Santana, I'm sorry to say, but you're sorely mistaken. Using the Anderson/Diaz for Segura trade doesn't serve much use because they were not comparable prospects to what Smith and Duplantier are currently. The trade panned out for Milwaukee, but it's not as if we knew this would be an impactful trade in the future at the time it happened. Smith and Duplantier are the DBacks' #1 and #2 prospects. Diaz and Anderson were definitely not on that level at any point.

[TJseven7]

Azs farm is very thin. Top 2 prospect there isn't as valuable as it sounds. Top 70 top 100 isn't a huge haul.

[TURBO]

Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reports that the Diamondbacks were "very interested" in Domingo Santana this offseason.

 

Cafardo says that the Brewers were likely targeting Patrick Corbin in trade talks with the D'Backs, but they were "rebuffed." It's hard to imagine Arizona rejecting a one-for-one Santana-for-Corbin trade proposal considering that Corbin is a free agent after this season and Santana isn't even arbitration-eligible yet, so there were surely other players involved here if in fact talks did center around Santana and Corbin. The Brewers are saying at the moment that they're happy to keep Santana and play Ryan Braun more at first base, but it still seems to make the most sense for them to deal Santana for pitching.

 

Source: Boston GlobeFeb 11 - 9:34 AM

[coolhandluke121]

Not high on Corbin. Would rather give Suter a chance. Results count. Sometimes you have to realize that effectiveness can't always be reduced to a series of grades on a scouting report. I don't think he's going to be a regular in the rotation for his whole career, but he could easily be as good as Corbin next year. His bat and glove make a difference, too. Not sure analytics is up to speed with quantifying that, but it matters.

 

I don't want to give Arizona Santana that easy, either. They're going to be pretty good for a few more years at least, and are the primary wild-card contender ahead of the Brewers and Cardinals IMO. Last year was no fluke. Make them pay Martinez. I'm fine with a $20-for-$10-$5-$5 Santana trade, but not with Arizona; it helps them much, MUCH more than it helps the Brewers for the next few years.

 

Smith is nice and would fit an organizational need in a big way, but there will be other chances to fill that position in anticipation of Braun and Thames being gone.

[82brewcrew82]

Probably gonna get your wish. Looks like they are going to head into the season on hopes and prayers.

[coolhandluke121]

Probably gonna get your wish. Looks like they are going to head into the season on hopes and prayers.

 

It's the opposite of hopes and prayers IMO. It's actually based on a whole lot of sound analytics and rational moves instead of impulsive ones. They're maximizing value and the wins will continue to come without compromising the future.

 

You have to be very confident you're getting a significant upgrade before paying premiums in free agency and trade. When you've got a bunch of ~1.5-2 WAR guys, you can't count on second and third tier free agents to be a significant upgrade.

 

They'll be fine. Yelich and Cain are terrific. Braun is a big upgrade over Aguilar at 1b. Opportunities to get more pitching will arise. They aren't going to spend the first 3 months with a roster built for tanking that won by accident.

[NOMAAM]

Probably gonna get your wish. Looks like they are going to head into the season on hopes and prayers.

In a normal off season you'd probably be right but it's been so slow to develop most teams have several roster moves to make yet. They'll be opportunity for the brewers to add at least one SP wouldn't shock me to see two actually

[brewerfan82]

The next week (or month??) is going to be fascinating. Going off of CBS' top 50 FA tracker, 21 are still unsigned (including 6 of the top 9!):

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-free-agent-tracker-2017-18-latest-hot-stove-signings-best-players-available/

 

Suitors for Santana are no doubt being held up to some extent by the free agents that have yet to be signed. And similarly, The Brewers could be holding off on making a trade for a pitcher until they know if they've landed any of the SP's available as well. So many pieces that still need to fall into place.

[82brewcrew82]

Probably gonna get your wish. Looks like they are going to head into the season on hopes and prayers.

 

It's the opposite of hopes and prayers IMO. It's actually based on a whole lot of sound analytics and rational moves instead of impulsive ones. They're maximizing value and the wins will continue to come without compromising the future.

 

You have to be very confident you're getting a significant upgrade before paying premiums in free agency and trade. When you've got a bunch of ~1.5-2 WAR guys, you can't count on second and third tier free agents to be a significant upgrade.

 

They'll be fine. Yelich and Cain are terrific. Braun is a big upgrade over Aguilar at 1b. Opportunities to get more pitching will arise. They aren't going to spend the first 3 months with a roster built for tanking that won by accident.

Yeah, we can shout "we weren't impulsive like you" form the sidewalk along the Cub parade route. Tis but a flesh wound.

[pacopete4]

Lol some are really overreacting to the Darvish to to Cubs signing. Straight depression mode for some. We really cannot become impatient. It will only lead us to a roster that won’t last long and won’t be sustainable. A home will be found for Santana.

[coolhandluke121]

Yeah, we can shout "we weren't impulsive like you" form the sidewalk along the Cub parade route. Tis but a flesh wound.

 

The Cubs waited a long time for this. The Brewers have to wait for their time, too. It's the impulsive mistakes the Cubs made over 10 years ago that buried them for years, and similar mistakes that buried the Brewers when they should have had a great 10-year run.

 

The Brewers' day will come. Trying to win all the time usually just guarantees perpetual mediocrity, especially in a small market. I'm proud of the work they've done to make themselves a clear wild-card contender without compromising their 5-year outlook much at all.

[TJseven7]

Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reports that the Diamondbacks were "very interested" in Domingo Santana this offseason.

 

Cafardo says that the Brewers were likely targeting Patrick Corbin in trade talks with the D'Backs, but they were "rebuffed." It's hard to imagine Arizona rejecting a one-for-one Santana-for-Corbin trade proposal considering that Corbin is a free agent after this season and Santana isn't even arbitration-eligible yet, so there were surely other players involved here if in fact talks did center around Santana and Corbin. The Brewers are saying at the moment that they're happy to keep Santana and play Ryan Braun more at first base, but it still seems to make the most sense for them to deal Santana for pitching.

 

Source: Boston GlobeFeb 11 - 9:34 AM

 

Corbin is basically Chacin. At the same price as Chacin. That means essentially market value. He's worth basically diplan or a nottingham type prospect. We could add a guy like that at the deadline much like we did in getting walker and swarzak.

 

Santana for Corbin is laughable. I would like corbin on the team. I think he's pretty decent. If the choice was santana for corbin or buy garcia... I'll buy garcia. No 2 top 100 prospects... no santana.

 

Santana should hold value around yelich - brinson. Smith duplanteir corbin... ok ill toss in diplan.

[82brewcrew82]

Lol some are really overreacting to the Darvish to to Cubs signing. Straight depression mode for some. We really cannot become impatient. It will only lead us to a roster that won’t last long and won’t be sustainable. A home will be found for Santana.

Seriously, why is it you have to stoop to this level every chance you get. Says a lot about your ability to defend your position when this is all you have. So if someone has a differing opinion they are depressed? Stellar logic there.

 

Fact is, the Cubs were better and just took another pretty big step forward. Saying "yeah, but we have Brent Suter" isn't going to cut it. Make that argument on a neutral board and see how quickly you get blown up.

[TJseven7]

Lol some are really overreacting to the Darvish to to Cubs signing. Straight depression mode for some. We really cannot become impatient. It will only lead us to a roster that won’t last long and won’t be sustainable. A home will be found for Santana.

Seriously, why is it you have to stoop to this level every chance you get. Says a lot about your ability to defend your position when this is all you have. So if someone has a differing opinion they are depressed? Stellar logic there.

 

Fact is, the Cubs were better and just took another pretty big step forward. Saying "yeah, but we have Brent Suter" isn't going to cut it. Make that argument on a neutral board and see how quickly you get blown up.

 

I actually agree with 82 on this. Was ticked about a cheap deal on darvish for the cubs. Even with a healthy nelson. Nelson anderson davies woodruff v darvish Q lester hendricks... they just ensured their rotation is better for 2 more years. Our window is 3 before its decision time.

[82brewcrew82]

Yeah, we can shout "we weren't impulsive like you" form the sidewalk along the Cub parade route. Tis but a flesh wound.

 

The Cubs waited a long time for this. The Brewers have to wait for their time, too. It's the impulsive mistakes the Cubs made over 10 years ago that buried them for years, and similar mistakes that buried the Brewers when they should have had a great 10-year run.

 

The Brewers' day will come. Trying to win all the time usually just guarantees perpetual mediocrity, especially in a small market. I'm proud of the work they've done to make themselves a clear wild-card contender without compromising their 5-year outlook much at all.

The Brewers have to wait for their time? That is all they ever do. The times they have actually accomplished something are the times they stepped up and made aggressive moves to win, they didn't wait. They are never going to win if they never play the game. Acquiring an upgrade in pitching doesn't mean the have to be impetuous or overzealous or that they are giving away the future. I believe Stearns can be smart AND upgrade the roster.

[JosephC]

Who would be the additional players from Arizona to make the trade work?

 

Their top 2 prospects. 2 top 100s... Smith a mid 60s contact plus 1b, Duplanteir a barely top 100 pitcher.

 

Smith, duplanteir and corbin for Santana would be a smart, a little boost now but value in prospects later deal. Like anderson diaz for segura.

 

IMO a Santana for 1B-Pavin Smith, RHP-Jon Duplantier and OF-Eduardo Diaz is not a crazy ask and is a trade I would make if the Diamondbacks came calling for Santana. May look bad from the Diamondbacks point of view because it includes the Diamondback's top two prospects, but that package would only represent somewhere in the area of 50-55 million in prospect surplus value which would make it a fair swap. If Santana is only good for 2 WAR per season over the next four seasons then his surplus value is probably in the 55 million dollar range. If he maintains the 3 WAR pace he established last year then this would be a great trade for Arizona.

 

Doesn't include a pitcher that can help the Brewers right now but would bring back about half the value they parted with in the Yelich deal and sets them up with plenty of trade chips to make future moves.

[pacopete4]

Lol some are really overreacting to the Darvish to to Cubs signing. Straight depression mode for some. We really cannot become impatient. It will only lead us to a roster that won’t last long and won’t be sustainable. A home will be found for Santana.

Seriously, why is it you have to stoop to this level every chance you get. Says a lot about your ability to defend your position when this is all you have. So if someone has a differing opinion they are depressed? Stellar logic there.

 

Fact is, the Cubs were better and just took another pretty big step forward. Saying "yeah, but we have Brent Suter" isn't going to cut it. Make that argument on a neutral board and see how quickly you get blown up.

 

Lol this is all I have? Come on man. Step away from the keyboard every once in awhile. You go one minute from saying that Darvish isn’t realistic for the Brewers and that he will never go there, to jumping off the deep end that he signed with the Cubs. The Brewers will continue on with their plan and not get themselves into financial messes. We all know what we sign up for being a Brewers fan. It includes realizing the downfalls of being in a small market. Just fuels the fire to try to knock off the Cubbies just that much more. Lovable losers, no more. Like I said in a different post, the Brewers are a better team today than they were a year ago and definitely two years ago.

[82brewcrew82]

Lol some are really overreacting to the Darvish to to Cubs signing. Straight depression mode for some. We really cannot become impatient. It will only lead us to a roster that won’t last long and won’t be sustainable. A home will be found for Santana.

Seriously, why is it you have to stoop to this level every chance you get. Says a lot about your ability to defend your position when this is all you have. So if someone has a differing opinion they are depressed? Stellar logic there.

 

Fact is, the Cubs were better and just took another pretty big step forward. Saying "yeah, but we have Brent Suter" isn't going to cut it. Make that argument on a neutral board and see how quickly you get blown up.

 

Lol this is all I have? Come on man. Step away from the keyboard every once in awhile. You go one minute from saying that Darvish isn’t realistic for the Brewers and that he will never go there, to jumping off the deep end that he signed with the Cubs. The Brewers will continue on with their plan and not get themselves into financial messes. We all know what we sign up for being a Brewers fan. It includes realizing the downfalls of being in a small market. Just fuels the fire to try to knock off the Cubbies just that much more. Lovable losers, no more. Like I said in a different post, the Brewers are a better team today than they were a year ago and definitely two years ago.

No one went off the deep end and you are still defending your position with passive aggression. Just because I knew he wasn't coming here doesn't mean he isn't a very good pitcher. Them signing him is a blow to the Brewers, no question. The Brewers may be better but they aren't good enough. That might be enough for you but it's not acceptable for me.