Domingo Santana - round 2

[Dadbauer]

The one thing about Burnes that I am hesitant to give up on is that he's so close to the major leagues - and that is not an exaggeration. When you get to AA and have major success there, you're basically a call away from the big leagues when your AAA affiliate is Colorado Springs. I can deal with Monte Harrison being traded because even with his strides this year - he's still in his 3rd professional year and hadn't really shown anything but potential. The thing is, even with success he's still 2-3 years away. Burnes could make an impact at the ML level THIS YEAR and in a position of need.

 

 

Santana is expendable because we know what he is and it comes at a position we are stacked in - I would hate to see guy as close as Burnes be included when we still haven't seen his ceiling and he's very close to the bigs at a spot we need more of.

 

I agree that the need for rotation depth is great, but when you are talking about trading Burnes as part of a package for a pitcher who has been durable and has five years of control, it mitigates that need. Granted injuries to happen, but the cupboard isn't going to be bare of potential MLB starters should one go down, either. For once, I'm actually pretty excited about the potential starting pitching depth this team has. Its high-end pitching where they fall short. There are a bunch of #3 types and a bunch of #5 types. While I get the argument that Archer is just another #3 type, I believe with his stuff and durability, along with a move to the NL, he could very well rise above that.

 

I agree witha ll that and am very pro-Archer - I just think it would be foolish to just throw the Rays everything they want without a little hardball. Even though I'm fine giving up Santana, that doesn't make him a bad player - he's quite valuable! But is a known quantity with a lot of major league success AND your best young pitching prospect PLUS other pieces really a good deal? I'm ok with giving things up, but both Burnes and Santana could be centerpieces of separate deals, I would have a sour taste in my mouth to use two centerpieces in one deal when the return isn't TRULY elite.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

More recently, as Burnes is appearing in Top 100 lists, you read that he possesses stuff to be a top of the rotation starter, has excellent control, and still room to gain consistency on his curveball and change up to be weapons. He may be ALL That and a bag of peanuts.

 

I don't get how many people are describing Phillips as the perfect fit for the Brewers roster this year. Unless Santana is traded, it is highly unlikely that Phillips spends much time on the 25 man active roster unless one of the four other outfielders has a substantial stay on the DL.

 

Because you don't acquire defensive standouts like Yelich and Cain, and play them out of position so keeping Braun in LF while playing Yelich in RF is not ideal. Also, putting them next to a poor defender like Santana mitigates their value. And I would put Phillips ahead of Broxton in the pecking order as well.

 

I know we're getting close to Spring Training, but I still think Santana is going to be dealt. The roster makeup just doesn't make a lot of sense if he isn't.

[KeithStone53151]

I don't get how many people are describing Phillips as the perfect fit for the Brewers roster this year. Unless Santana is traded, it is highly unlikely that Phillips spends much time on the 25 man active roster unless one of the four other outfielders has a substantial stay on the DL.

 

I think that's the assumption, if Santana is traded Phillips is the perfect 4th OF. But either way, Phillips is the only LH of all the OF remaining and can play all 3 positions at a high level defensively- that's what makes him a perfect fit.

 

Well Yelich is LH as well, but otherwise this is spot on. Also it's been noted that Yelich and Cain are GG caliber defenders in LF and CF respectively, and many including myself think Phillips could be an elite defender in RF with his speed/arm/instincts...plus as noted he can play all 3 spots at a high level and has a decent amount of upside with his bat if he can get that k rate down a bit.

[Brew Crew Buster]

If nothing changes:

 

25 man roster generally will include 12 pitchers. Sometimes 13.

 

8 positional starters

 

So you are at 20.

 

Then you add Santana as outfielder number 4 if he isn't traded which brings you to 21.

 

Add to it which ever person isn't playing second base is 22

 

Plus a Perez that can play all over is 23

 

A back up catcher is 24.

 

So then it is either Aguilar, Phillips or another multidimensional player on the bench. If the Brewers sign a true second baseman than there is no room for Phillips. Even if they don't; having another player that can play both infield and outfield may hold more value than keeping Phillips on the active roster. Plus you may not want this young of a player rusting at the end of the bench.

 

This is all assuming that that Brewers value Phillips above Broxton as a fifth outfielder.

 

Unless something changes Phillips is a Triple A all star this year!

[KeithStone53151]

If nothing changes:

 

25 man roster generally will include 12 pitchers. Sometimes 13.

 

8 positional starters

 

So you are at 20.

 

Then you add Santana as outfielder number 4 if he isn't traded which brings you to 21.

 

Add to it which ever person isn't playing second base is 22

 

Plus a Perez that can play all over is 23

 

A back up catcher is 24.

 

So then it is either Aguilar, Phillips or another multidimensional player on the bench. If the Brewers sign a true second baseman than there is no room for Phillips. Even if they don't; having another player that can play both infield and outfield may hold more value than keeping Phillips on the active roster. Plus you may not want this young of a player rusting at the end of the bench.

 

This is all assuming that that Brewers value Phillips above Broxton as a fifth outfielder.

 

Unless something changes Phillips is a Triple A all star this year!

 

I couldn't agree more that there will be a roster crunch. It's hard to handicap anything until Santana gets moved(if that happens). They'll have decisions to make on Aguilar/Broxton/Perez, we might only have room for 1 of those guys. You can add Phillips to that list if Santana doesn't get moved before opening day. You can also add Villar to that list if we bring in Kipnis or Walker.

[Brew Crew Buster]

The bigger question is:

 

Can Phillips play second base?

[KeithStone53151]

The bigger question is:

 

Can Phillips play second base?

 

I think he might fire a hole through Thames glove if he does that. 104 mph throw at that short distance...woof.

[rht]

The bigger question is:

 

Can Phillips play second base?

 

I was thinking catcher, no one would run on us

[FVBrewerFan]

I still think Perez could be moves as well. With all the OF, really don't need him to back-up there. With Sogard able to play SS, and Villar able to play 3B Perez becomes redundant. Plus they are really high on Dubon who may/ may not be ready at some point this season. (Not to mention there's always a couple vets stashed away in CS in case of emergency.)

 

You would think Perez would have value. He's the type of player that probably has more value at the trade deadline, but even now there must be teams who would value his versatility. That would allow them to keep Phillips or Aguilar.

[brewmann04]

I would like for then to hold onto Corbin and like that DS is hesitant to move him. I am sure the Brewers FO knows a lot more about Corbin Major League potential than any of us hopefully

[chris10809]

I would think keeping Santana is their preference unless they get great value. There should still be a seasons worth of at-bats for him. 9 games with DH, most OFers play like 130 games a year so he'd get 95 or so starts in OF plus any start in LF he may get against lefties if Braun is decent and platoons with Thames at 1st. Plus Braun misses 20-40 games with injury every year. That's 120+ starts, easy.

[chris10809]

Perez had better value a year ago. His versatility is, I would think, of value but with his established middling offensive production its limited value.

[KeithStone53151]

I would think keeping Santana is their preference unless they get great value. There should still be a seasons worth of at-bats for him. 9 games with DH, most OFers play like 130 games a year so he'd get 95 or so starts in OF plus any start in LF he may get against lefties if Braun is decent and platoons with Thames at 1st. Plus Braun misses 20-40 games with injury every year. That's 120+ starts, easy.

 

Welcome to the board

 

I don't agree with your 130 games rule. Both Yelich and Cain played in over 130 games 3 of the last 4 years, Cain played over 150 last year and Yelich over 150 the last 2 years. We didn't bring those guys in to sit out 30 games if they are healthy...injured is another story. If Santana stays, one of Thames/Santana is going to see a signficant reduction in PT barring injury. Phillips also offers a LH bat and more versatility than Santana. Having him up to start 70-80 games, pinch hit, pinch run, and sub in for defense late in games I would argue adds more value than keeping Santana.

[Dadbauer]

Right now I think best Case Scenario is keeping Santana and signing a TOP guy like Darvish (if possible.) Your platoon at first base of Braun and Thames as they both MASH lefties and righties respectively and is probably a better option than Thames and Aguilar while your outfield is certainly better. Then they could potentially move Aguilar and either Broxton or Phillips for some kind of help elsewhere (another arm, or a 2B upgrade.)

[Mr Southpaw]

Right now I think best Case Scenario is keeping Santana and signing a TOP guy like Darvish (if possible.) Your platoon at first base of Braun and Thames as they both MASH lefties and righties respectively and is probably a better option than Thames and Aguilar while your outfield is certainly better. Then they could potentially move Aguilar and either Broxton or Phillips for some kind of help elsewhere (another arm, or a 2B upgrade.)

 

I agree with most of this. I would sign one of Cobb or Lynn for three years. The look at mid-season to trade Santana for a rent-a pitcher or maybe Archer. With Nelson coming back and a potential big arm added, we could be really strong for the second half without having to overspend.

[MrTPlush]

Right now I think best Case Scenario is keeping Santana and signing a TOP guy like Darvish (if possible.) Your platoon at first base of Braun and Thames as they both MASH lefties and righties respectively and is probably a better option than Thames and Aguilar while your outfield is certainly better. Then they could potentially move Aguilar and either Broxton or Phillips for some kind of help elsewhere (another arm, or a 2B upgrade.)

 

I agree with most of this. I would sign one of Cobb or Lynn for three years. The look at mid-season to trade Santana for a rent-a pitcher or maybe Archer. With Nelson coming back and a potential big arm added, we could be really strong for the second half without having to overspend.

 

I am going to tell you right now the odds of that happening are <1%. In the offseason MLB players for MLB players are possible, but in season it is almost impossible to rationalize. You would be making a move that would hurt your roster while trying to help it in a postseason push. In the offseason there is time to find a free agent to replace the player you got rid of or find a trade. Good luck trading MLB assets for MLB assets in July as we already are having difficulty doing so.

[Mr Southpaw]

Right now I think best Case Scenario is keeping Santana and signing a TOP guy like Darvish (if possible.) Your platoon at first base of Braun and Thames as they both MASH lefties and righties respectively and is probably a better option than Thames and Aguilar while your outfield is certainly better. Then they could potentially move Aguilar and either Broxton or Phillips for some kind of help elsewhere (another arm, or a 2B upgrade.)

 

I agree with most of this. I would sign one of Cobb or Lynn for three years. The look at mid-season to trade Santana for a rent-a pitcher or maybe Archer. With Nelson coming back and a potential big arm added, we could be really strong for the second half without having to overspend.

 

I am going to tell you right now the odds of that happening are <1%. In the offseason MLB players for MLB players are possible, but in season it is almost impossible to rationalize. You would be making a move that would hurt your roster while trying to help it in a postseason push. In the offseason there is time to find a free agent to replace the player you got rid of or find a trade. Good luck trading MLB assets for MLB assets in July as we already are having difficulty doing so.

 

The trade Santana for some prospects (like you are a seller) and then trade other prospects for a rental pitcher (like you are a buyer). Sorry I was not clear enough for you.

[KeithStone53151]

Right now I think best Case Scenario is keeping Santana and signing a TOP guy like Darvish (if possible.) Your platoon at first base of Braun and Thames as they both MASH lefties and righties respectively and is probably a better option than Thames and Aguilar while your outfield is certainly better. Then they could potentially move Aguilar and either Broxton or Phillips for some kind of help elsewhere (another arm, or a 2B upgrade.)

 

I agree with most of this. I would sign one of Cobb or Lynn for three years. The look at mid-season to trade Santana for a rent-a pitcher or maybe Archer. With Nelson coming back and a potential big arm added, we could be really strong for the second half without having to overspend.

 

I am going to tell you right now the odds of that happening are <1%. In the offseason MLB players for MLB players are possible, but in season it is almost impossible to rationalize. You would be making a move that would hurt your roster while trying to help it in a postseason push. In the offseason there is time to find a free agent to replace the player you got rid of or find a trade. Good luck trading MLB assets for MLB assets in July as we already are having difficulty doing so.

 

That's a fair point, very rarely do you see contenders swapping mlb players mid season. Usually it's underperformers dumping good players with little team control for value. Also if Braun is healthy, he's playing almost every day. There will be no platoon situation with him.

[coolhandluke121]

 

Also if Braun is healthy, he's playing almost every day. There will be no platoon situation with him.

 

In other words, there will be a platoon situation with him, and they might even have to waste a roster spot on a third 1b as well.

[KeithStone53151]

 

Also if Braun is healthy, he's playing almost every day. There will be no platoon situation with him.

 

In other words, there will be a platoon situation with him, and they might even have to waste a roster spot on a third 1b as well.

 

Eye roll...the braun missing 2 months every year with injury argument has been thoroughly destroyed multiple times this offseason. No sense in rehashing that argument...

[coolhandluke121]

 

Eye roll...the braun missing 2 months every year with injury argument has been thoroughly destroyed multiple times this offseason. No sense in rehashing that argument...

 

Suggesting that the reason Braun misses so many games in not injury-related is semantics at best. He is fragile.

[KeithStone53151]

 

Eye roll...the braun missing 2 months every year with injury argument has been thoroughly destroyed multiple times this offseason. No sense in rehashing that argument...

 

Suggesting that the reason Braun misses so many games in not injury-related is semantics at best. He is fragile.

 

Braun has played 135, 140, and 135 in 3 of the last 4 years. Playing 1b makes him a bit less susceptible to injury, more likely to stay healthy. Expecting 130-140 is more than reasonable. Implying it will be closer to 100 as many have is just nonsense.

[Boomer5]

Braun will miss plenty of games. Get used to hearing the word "intercostal".

[SandyTolan]

What if Stearns has a secret weapon SP we aren't considering... named Josh Hader? What if they land another RP and despite what they've said publicly, take a close look at him in spring training, see if he can keep his walks down and develop that third pitch... and then put him in the rotation?

[coolhandluke121]

 

Eye roll...the braun missing 2 months every year with injury argument has been thoroughly destroyed multiple times this offseason. No sense in rehashing that argument...

 

Suggesting that the reason Braun misses so many games in not injury-related is semantics at best. He is fragile.

 

Braun has played 135, 140, and 135 in 3 of the last 4 years. Playing 1b makes him a bit less susceptible to injury, more likely to stay healthy. Expecting 130-140 is more than reasonable. Implying it will be closer to 100 as many have is just nonsense.

 

Averaging 121 starts on defense in that span and trending in the wrong direction. Almost missed over 1/3 of his games in 2013 before being suspended and OPS'ing under .850 with about -1 dWAR every year since going off the PEDs. Looked on the decline last season, and there's really no reason to think that's going to go the other way anytime soon. Father Time is undefeated. He's just a guy who's constantly susceptible to various aches and pains that limit his performance, and it's only going to get worse.