Domingo Santana - round 2

[DR28]

In High Heat 19s post he talks about trades being held up by 1 player. What if that player is JD Martinez? All of his suitors would also be interested in Santana, and he would be an excellent consolation prize. I know we have discussed Boston, Arizona, Cleveland, and Atlanta as possibilities. Maybe we are just waiting for that chip to fall before the bargaining for Santana begins.

 

Let me clear that up a little bit. The holdup is a player amongst the teams. Not Martinez.

 

I would put very good odds that something will get done between the Brewers and the Indians before opening day. And it will more than likely include Santana. Do not be surprised if Santana is also dealt for a high end pitching prospect who may only be a year away from major league ready. See Puk/Groome.

 

So probably Salazar/Kipnis for Santana????

[DR28]

What happen to HH post last night?

 

It got erased before I told them too. Strike 3 and now I’m done with brewerfan.net.

 

Man, I thought you decided to come back..................

[82brewcrew82]

Not to derail but it really shows how big of a whiff Ray could turn out to be. Puk has incredible K #'s so far in his short pro career. Coming from the left side, what a miss that really could turn out to be.

 

Here's the requisite February "this is the year I turn it around" story on Corey Ray http://www.the3rdmanin.com/corey-ray-brewers-bounce-back/

 

The the Brewers' defense, Ray was considered one of the safest picks of that draft, as he had shown considerable upside. If the Brewers hadn't picked him at #5, there was no way he would have fallen more than 2-3 more spots.

 

The health of the Brewers' system needs Ray to start fulfilling his potential, and quick. If this team is going to be a contender for the next several seasons, he needs to be valuable currency for potential moves.

Well sure, so does Grisham, so does Kirby, and so on. We obviously want everyone of these guys to excel. Unfortunately that sometimes happens on a timeline we don't like and sometimes it happens not at all.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Well sure, so does Grisham, so does Kirby, and so on. We obviously want everyone of these guys to excel. Unfortunately that sometimes happens on a timeline we don't like and sometimes it happens not at all.

 

True, but they can't really afford to miss on a guy that was the #5 pick in the draft. He still has time, but being a college draftee, time is starting to not be on his side.

[Warning Track Power]

I hope the Brewers are able to sign one of the FAs in order to move Domingo for SP prospects. I think this is the winning formula for this offseason and am glad it has been discussed.

[82brewcrew82]

Well sure, so does Grisham, so does Kirby, and so on. We obviously want everyone of these guys to excel. Unfortunately that sometimes happens on a timeline we don't like and sometimes it happens not at all.

 

True, but they can't really afford to miss on a guy that was the #5 pick in the draft. He still has time, but being a college draftee, time is starting to not be on his side.

I think you can. It looks like Lutz was a real steal from this past draft. Having him step up and kind of erase that potential mistake the year before. Sure, we would like to make the perfect pick every time around but this kind of thing is not unique to the crew in any way.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think you can. It looks like Lutz was a real steal from this past draft. Having him step up and kind of erase that potential mistake the year before. Sure, we would like to make the perfect pick every time around but this kind of thing is not unique to the crew in any way.

 

True dat *sigh*

[pacopete4]

I think you can. It looks like Lutz was a real steal from this past draft. Having him step up and kind of erase that potential mistake the year before. Sure, we would like to make the perfect pick every time around but this kind of thing is not unique to the crew in any way.

 

True dat *sigh*

 

But we keep missing on arms. That is the real bummer behind this. We have the 5th pick and instead of investing it in an arm that could be franchise changing, we went for a light-hitting outfielder. Outfielders are a dime a dozen but here we are, searching for the game changers in our rotation, again.

[82brewcrew82]

I think you can. It looks like Lutz was a real steal from this past draft. Having him step up and kind of erase that potential mistake the year before. Sure, we would like to make the perfect pick every time around but this kind of thing is not unique to the crew in any way.

 

True dat *sigh*

 

But we keep missing on arms. That is the real bummer behind this. We have the 5th pick and instead of investing it in an arm that could be franchise changing, we went for a light-hitting outfielder. Outfielders are a dime a dozen but here we are, searching for the game changers in our rotation, again.

That was probably true more so in the past than it is now. We weren't the only team to pass on those arms. I truly believe they made the pick they thought was best. Every GM is going to miss on a pick or trade here and there. By-and-large, Stearns has proven to be a really good GM in my opinion.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think you can. It looks like Lutz was a real steal from this past draft. Having him step up and kind of erase that potential mistake the year before. Sure, we would like to make the perfect pick every time around but this kind of thing is not unique to the crew in any way.

 

True dat *sigh*

 

But we keep missing on arms. That is the real bummer behind this. We have the 5th pick and instead of investing it in an arm that could be franchise changing, we went for a light-hitting outfielder. Outfielders are a dime a dozen but here we are, searching for the game changers in our rotation, again.

 

Kodi Medeiros

Taylor Jungmann

Jed Bradley

Dylan Covey

Eric Arnett

Kyle Heckathorn

Jake Odorizzi

Evan Frederickson

Jeremy Jeffress

Mark Rogers

Mike Jones

 

All are 1st round or supplemental 1st round pitchers drafted by the Brewers since Ben Sheets in 1999. So not only do we pass up the right pitchers, the pitchers we draft are the wrong ones. This list is depressing.

[homer]

What happen to HH post last night?

 

It got erased before I told them too. Strike 3 and now I’m done with brewerfan.net.

 

 

That thread was deleted because it had little to do with the Brewers and/or baseball and more to do with you. Sorry, this isn't the place for that. Hope you can come back and talk baseball but it will be on the terms of the boards rules not yours.

 

To everyone else: Any further posts about this will be deleted. Leaving it here so everyone knows what the deal is.

[pacopete4]

 

Kodi Medeiros

Taylor Jungmann

Jed Bradley

Dylan Covey

Eric Arnett

Kyle Heckathorn

Jake Odorizzi

Evan Frederickson

Jeremy Jeffress

Mark Rogers

Mike Jones

 

All are 1st round or supplemental 1st round pitchers drafted by the Brewers since Ben Sheets in 1999. So not only do we pass up the right pitchers, the pitchers we draft are the wrong ones. This list is depressing.

 

Go Kodi GO!!!!

 

Yikes, this is a depressing list.

[brewmann04]

yes when your picking high in the draft cant afford to have swing and misses.

[KeithStone53151]

 

Kodi Medeiros

Taylor Jungmann

Jed Bradley

Dylan Covey

Eric Arnett

Kyle Heckathorn

Jake Odorizzi

Evan Frederickson

Jeremy Jeffress

Mark Rogers

Mike Jones

 

All are 1st round or supplemental 1st round pitchers drafted by the Brewers since Ben Sheets in 1999. So not only do we pass up the right pitchers, the pitchers we draft are the wrong ones. This list is depressing.

 

Go Kodi GO!!!!

 

Yikes, this is a depressing list.

 

FWIW, you are far more likely to draft the wrong one than the right one. The nature of pitching. Look no further than Brady Aiken or Mark Appel...who were both higher picks than anybody listed above. Stearns may feel going for hitters and trading for the pitchers we need is a more effective strategy. Right or wrong, that seems to be his operating strategy.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Kodi Medeiros

Taylor Jungmann

Jed Bradley

Dylan Covey

Eric Arnett

Kyle Heckathorn

Jake Odorizzi

Evan Frederickson

Jeremy Jeffress

Mark Rogers

Mike Jones

 

All are 1st round or supplemental 1st round pitchers drafted by the Brewers since Ben Sheets in 1999. So not only do we pass up the right pitchers, the pitchers we draft are the wrong ones. This list is depressing.

 

Go Kodi GO!!!!

 

Yikes, this is a depressing list.

 

Technically Nathan Kirby should be on this list too, but I didn't want him to catch any of the residual stink. He's been star-crossed enough.

[adambr2]

Corbin Burnes looks like a huge steal right now. Don't get me wrong, our long -term pitching drafting still looks atrocious but it certainly feels like it's trending in a better direction.

 

I've always wondered how much pitcher development has to do with the pitcher himself and how much it has to do with coaching in the farm system.

[82brewcrew82]

Corbin Burnes looks like a huge steal right now. Don't get me wrong, our long -term pitching drafting still looks atrocious but it certainly feels like it's trending in a better direction.

 

I've always wondered how much pitcher development has to do with the pitcher himself and how much it has to do with coaching in the farm system.

Based on that list it seems pretty much like a crap shoot to me. That list spans many scouting regimes and/or philosophies.

[homer]

 

Kodi Medeiros

Taylor Jungmann

Jed Bradley

Dylan Covey

Eric Arnett

Kyle Heckathorn

Jake Odorizzi

Evan Frederickson

Jeremy Jeffress

Mark Rogers

Mike Jones

 

All are 1st round or supplemental 1st round pitchers drafted by the Brewers since Ben Sheets in 1999. So not only do we pass up the right pitchers, the pitchers we draft are the wrong ones. This list is depressing.

 

 

it is but I'd be willing to bet 90% of the teams in the league have a similar list.

[FVBrewerFan]

 

Kodi Medeiros

Taylor Jungmann

Jed Bradley

Dylan Covey

Eric Arnett

Kyle Heckathorn

Jake Odorizzi

Evan Frederickson

Jeremy Jeffress

Mark Rogers

Mike Jones

 

All are 1st round or supplemental 1st round pitchers drafted by the Brewers since Ben Sheets in 1999. So not only do we pass up the right pitchers, the pitchers we draft are the wrong ones. This list is depressing.

 

 

it is but I'd be willing to bet 90% of the teams in the league have a similar list.

 

Also, injuries to Rogers and Jones can't really be labeled a bad draft pick? And it's not like Jeffress or Odorizzi are busts.

[3and2Fastball]

Yes lots of teams have similar lists. Odorizzi was a good pick and helped get us Greinke. He's not a bust. Neither is Jeffress. Sure, Jeffress isn't the ace we hoped he'd be but he's an MLB pitcher. Jones, Rogers and Covey had injuries and/or health issues. That happens with pitchers. Sheets was one of the best pitchers in Baseball for a few years. Gallardo was home grown and very very good for awhile.

 

I wish the Brewers had drafted more great pitchers, too, but it hasn't been an all out disaster.

 

Hopefully Santana + can be flipped for MLB Pitching

[brewcrewdue80]

Man, thinking of Oakland snagging Santana to pair with Davis. What a thought. Puk oddly has a higher ERA for a big K guy and for 1 who doesnt give up HRs. You wonder how unlucky hes been with inherited runners scored?

 

A side note to my idea. Yeah suspending the signings for 30days. Its a blink first game of chicken. The suspension hurts a team who has the highest offer that the player refuses to sign for. How bad do you want this guy? Up to offer 10mil before the agreed upon suspension deadline or go 30days w/o the guy you are set on.

Pretty much look at it as 4-6million lost over 30 days for these top guys. Isholding out for 1more year worth it or an extra 10-20 total worth it?

 

If we're worried on Luxury tax that 4-6mil does that make a team who wasnt a player now one? Or a 1st month out for the season injury?

Think of it on Milw's side. Mark A. Tells Stearns to meet Darvish's demand or up the offer to this. Something where he just doesnt want to miss on one of the top 4 because Darvish isnt signing and come 30days in to the season, multiple teams now are in on the big 4 that weren't. It's a threat to both sides.

And you know fans are going to give these 30days late signings flak when details of what the signing went down for and what the signing would have cost at this time.

[Warning Track Power]

Man, thinking of Oakland snagging Santana to pair with Davis. What a thought. Puk oddly has a higher ERA for a big K guy and for 1 who doesnt give up HRs. You wonder how unlucky hes been with inherited runners scored?

Oakland is already an easy team to root for and having Santana and Davis in the middle of the lineup would make it even easier.

 

Back on topic, I believe the Brewers are holding out hope for the price coming down on Archer. He is Option A for the Brewers at this point. They will wait until they can't wait any longer. If things did fall apart, I believe Option B is the Indians for Salazar. Option C would be to move Santana for a Puk-like prospect. I am excited for one of these to break as I believe all of these would be good moves to solidify the rotation long term.

[badger3034]

Man, thinking of Oakland snagging Santana to pair with Davis. What a thought. Puk oddly has a higher ERA for a big K guy and for 1 who doesnt give up HRs. You wonder how unlucky hes been with inherited runners scored?

Oakland is already an easy team to root for and having Santana and Davis in the middle of the lineup would make it even easier.

 

Back on topic, I believe the Brewers are holding out hope for the price coming down on Archer. He is Option A for the Brewers at this point. They will wait until they can't wait any longer. If things did fall apart, I believe Option B is the Indians for Salazar. Option C would be to move Santana for a Puk-like prospect. I am excited for one of these to break as I believe all of these would be good moves to solidify the rotation long term.

 

Maybe HH19 can provide some details, but I think Stearns has walked away from the idea of an Archer trade. Tampa believes his value is way too high in my opinion, and I don't think he wants to give too much more than he has already offered. My guess would be that a Santana + for Archer trade would be 95% towards no.

 

Also I want to add, any addition of Phillips/Burnes/Hiura to that trade makes me absolutely cringe. I think anyone else could/should be on the table

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Maybe HH19 can provide some details, but I think Stearns has walked away from the idea of an Archer trade. Tampa believes his value is way too high in my opinion, and I don't think he wants to give too much more than he has already offered. My guess would be that a Santana + for Archer trade would be 95% towards no.

 

Also I want to add, any addition of Phillips/Burnes/Hiura to that trade makes me absolutely cringe. I think anyone else could/should be on the table

 

Is this speculation on your part, or have you seen/heard something somewhere? I haven't seen anything saying the Brewers are out on Archer.

 

Also, if they make a trade for a top of the rotation starter, I am 99% sure one of Burnes or Hiura, if not both, would be the return. Teams aren't giving up top pitchers easily, but if they are, they are going to want your top prospects in return.

 

Also, regarding HH19, he gone.

[badger3034]

Maybe HH19 can provide some details, but I think Stearns has walked away from the idea of an Archer trade. Tampa believes his value is way too high in my opinion, and I don't think he wants to give too much more than he has already offered. My guess would be that a Santana + for Archer trade would be 95% towards no.

 

Also I want to add, any addition of Phillips/Burnes/Hiura to that trade makes me absolutely cringe. I think anyone else could/should be on the table

 

Is this speculation on your part, or have you seen/heard something somewhere? I haven't seen anything saying the Brewers are out on Archer.

 

Also, if they make a trade for a top of the rotation starter, I am 99% sure one of Burnes or Hiura, if not both, would be the return. Teams aren't giving up top pitchers easily, but if they are, they are going to want your top prospects in return.

 

Also, regarding HH19, he gone.

 

My comments are purely speculation, I have no idea whats going to happen. My hope is that the Brewers would rather pony up some cash to improve their SP situation as opposed to getting rid of Phillips/Burnes/Hiura for it. That is mortgaging your future. Those are guys that definitely have potential to be good major league players, imo more than Brinson.