Domingo Santana - round 2

[monty57]

If we keep Santana, then Braun moves needs to be moved permanently to 1B.

 

Agreed, and I think to be fair to Braun (who isn't the world's best defender) he needs to be given one position and not moved around from game to game.

 

I'm really warming to the idea of holding onto Santana and our prospects and simply signing a free agent SP, ideally one who will sign a 2-3 year deal so probably Lynn or Cobb and not Darvish or Arrieta. If we can get a solid young SP for Santana then do it, but otherwise there is no harm in holding onto him and making lesser deals for Aguilar and/or Thames to free up first base for Braun.

[KeithStone53151]

I guess I (and pretty much everyone else I think) don't understand the value that Domingo has on a trade market. If he can't fetch a decent starting pitcher, whose to say that he'd be able to get anything worth much value in prospects? If I were to guess, unless you're trading for someone like Kershaw or whatever (just an example), I would be under the assumption that a prospect has a higher value than an above average starting pitcher. We obviously aren't able to trade for a TOR pitcher straight up for Domingo without giving prospects back also. He probably has less value than maybe two prospects, one top 75, and one outside of the top 100. Just my thoughts on that. Obviously if Braun is able to play at 1B daily, you're going to have to get rid of Aguilar or Thames. At this point, you might as well let Aguilar just go (unless he has options which I'm not sure of), and have a platoon of Braun and Thames, that way Braun stays rested. Only issue is that Thames needs a lot of playing time to get into a groove. Phillips should be your Hernan Perez of the outfield this year, and can get slotted in at any outfield spot without feeling like you're losing anything defensively any given day. I'd rather just roll with keeping Santana if you can't get an above average starting pitcher without giving up players like Burnes to achieve that.

 

Well that's my general stance as well. We don't HAVE to move Santana, only do so if you can get reasonable value in return. I suspect we can probably get some pretty good prospect packages for him, though we likely can't get any elite prospects like Mejia or McKenzie for Santana alone. As for SP, we likely can't get a TOR starter but we can probably get a solid #2/3 type. Most people tend to agree that Santana has relatively similar value to Salazar. Some people think slightly more value, some slightly less...but it's not all that far off in most bf.net people's eyes. I'm curious how this plays out, I'm sure one way or another the Brewers will add one more SP before opening day. If it's via trade, Santana will likely be involved. If it's via FA, maybe we keep him until the deadline.

[badger3034]

I guess I (and pretty much everyone else I think) don't understand the value that Domingo has on a trade market. If he can't fetch a decent starting pitcher, whose to say that he'd be able to get anything worth much value in prospects? If I were to guess, unless you're trading for someone like Kershaw or whatever (just an example), I would be under the assumption that a prospect has a higher value than an above average starting pitcher. We obviously aren't able to trade for a TOR pitcher straight up for Domingo without giving prospects back also. He probably has less value than maybe two prospects, one top 75, and one outside of the top 100. Just my thoughts on that. Obviously if Braun is able to play at 1B daily, you're going to have to get rid of Aguilar or Thames. At this point, you might as well let Aguilar just go (unless he has options which I'm not sure of), and have a platoon of Braun and Thames, that way Braun stays rested. Only issue is that Thames needs a lot of playing time to get into a groove. Phillips should be your Hernan Perez of the outfield this year, and can get slotted in at any outfield spot without feeling like you're losing anything defensively any given day. I'd rather just roll with keeping Santana if you can't get an above average starting pitcher without giving up players like Burnes to achieve that.

 

Well that's my general stance as well. We don't HAVE to move Santana, only do so if you can get reasonable value in return. I suspect we can probably get some pretty good prospect packages for him, though we likely can't get any elite prospects like Mejia or McKenzie for Santana alone. As for SP, we likely can't get a TOR starter but we can probably get a solid #2/3 type. Most people tend to agree that Santana has relatively similar value to Salazar. Some people think slightly more value, some slightly less...but it's not all that far off in most bf.net people's eyes. I'm curious how this plays out, I'm sure one way or another the Brewers will add one more SP before opening day. If it's via trade, Santana will likely be involved. If it's via FA, maybe we keep him until the deadline.

 

If we were able to get Salazar for Santana straight up, I think this trade would have been done already. This would completely clear your logjam in the outfield, and open up more playing time for Phillips as a guaranteed 4th outfielder. Either Stearns has injury concerns about Salazar, or the Indians don't believe Santana is worth as much as him. In my eyes, that's the only two things preventing this deal from being done. There is also an outside possibility that they're just working out a few kinks to get Kipnis involved (which I would love by the way), but I don't think it would take weeks and weeks to figure out a way to get an aging 2B with a large contract into a deal. The Brewers obviously shouldn't have to add much to get him if Santana has a larger value than Salazar. I don't think the amount of money that they're taking on is much of an issue in the Brewers minds, because they're really still not close to their threshold of being unable to sign one of the top 4 pitchers, unless that guys name begins with a Y. As far as I understand, correct me if I'm wrong, the Indians haven't been attached in rumblings to one of the top 4 guys in free agency, so I don't think they would have a problem taking a good portion of Kipnis' money from the Brewers, if they valued Santana that highly. I honestly don't believe most teams value Santana as highly as I would, he's a great bat, bad defensively, but I don't think that's as big of an issue because of how well he would do with the bats in front of him with this offense. I think it's better to keep him at this point.

[Austin Tatious]

Great thoughts, Badger. Hope to see more of you around here.

[Devinep]

First post here. I don't understand why people are wanting to trade Domingo for prospects right now. In my opinion, if you're not getting starting pitching back for the guy, there is no use trading him. This is obviously dependent on the fact that Braun can play 1B, which would be amazing if possible. I'm not sure how many outfielders in history have made the transition from the OF to 1B, but I'd imagine that from a professionals standpoint, it would probably be the easiest transition. Right now, with a fully healthy lineup, and Braunny staying healthy (playing 1B), Santana is probably the 4th or 5th best bat in their lineup. That's pretty incredible, I'm sure a lot of teams in baseball would look at him as their 2nd or 3rd best option (maybe 1st in some cases? idk). If we can't get any pitching for the guy, stick with what you've got at this point, and hope for the best with signing some sort of pitching. If you can sign one of the top 4 pitchers with a 3 year deal, 3rd being a team option of some sort, and guaranteed money in the first two, I don't think that the price tag is that big of an issue. You're not mortgaging your future payroll on a 3 year deal ever, and we are basically opening our window over the next 5 years (I think its closer to 3 really). Our time is short, we need to make an attempt at making it to a world series and ending the 36 year drought of getting there. People shouldn't be scared of paying up for winning. Sure, it's definitely possible you don't make it, but if you don't make the attempt, you'll never find out. Any of the top 4 pitchers are above our 4/5 pitchers right now.

 

Also, sorry if I veered my comment in the wrong direction of this thread

 

My personal reason for wanting to trade Santana for prospects is for three reasons. A, I only want us to get one more SP so as not to push Woodruff back to AAA and FA is the best rout. Second, while keeping Santana with Yelich, Cain, Braun, and Thames makes an awesome combo, someone is going to get relegated to be a part timer (probably Thames). Moving one of them would be of better value and of that set, only Thames & Santana can be moved and Santana should get us a better haul. And D, I want Phillips starting ~3/4 of the games in RF. His D along with Yelich and Cain would be awesome. Keeping Braun/Thames in the lineup with Yelich, Cain and Shaw makes for a strong top 4.

 

If we can squeeze out a top 50 prospect who is in AA at a position of need for Santana (Meija?), that would be the best use of resources, in my opinion.

 

Is the listing a home alone reference?

[mrn1ceguy]

 

My personal reason for wanting to trade Santana for prospects is for three reasons. A, I only want us to get one more SP so as not to push Woodruff back to AAA and FA is the best rout. Second, while keeping Santana with Yelich, Cain, Braun, and Thames makes an awesome combo, someone is going to get relegated to be a part timer (probably Thames). Moving one of them would be of better value and of that set, only Thames & Santana can be moved and Santana should get us a better haul. And D, I want Phillips starting ~3/4 of the games in RF. His D along with Yelich and Cain would be awesome. Keeping Braun/Thames in the lineup with Yelich, Cain and Shaw makes for a strong top 4.

 

If we can squeeze out a top 50 prospect who is in AA at a position of need for Santana (Meija?), that would be the best use of resources, in my opinion.

 

Is the listing a home alone reference?

[LouisEly]

Or, wouldn't the Red Sox have some interest in Santana?

 

I realize that they may not have the MLB ready arms that we might be looking for in a package for Santana, but maybe we could look to trade him there for a prospect package? However, just looking at Boston's top prospect list - boy, has that system dropped off in recent years (after trades and guys graduating to the pros). Is there much in that system that you'd like to see come back for Santana? I guess I'm thinking that this could help us replenish our farm system a bit, and we could then use some of those pieces to trade for a TOR starting pitcher (either before the season or at the trade deadline).

 

I absolutely think the Red Sox have some interest in him, especially considering the outlandish contract demands of JD Martinez(who they are publicly targeting). I'd be open to dealing for prospects now, signing a FA, and dealing for another pitcher at the deadline depending on our situation.

I would not be at all surprised if JD Martinez is holding up a trade of Santana. Was going to post this last night, but the Red Sox have supposedly expressed interest in Santana and they need a DH. If Hanley Ramirez accumulates 497 PAs this year the Red Sox are on the hook for his $22M option for 2019, and I'm sure they don't want that.

 

It is possible that the Red Sox have made the best offer for Santana, but it is contingent on Martinez going elsewhere. With owing Ramirez $22M this year the Red Sox offer to Martinez might be low in 2018 with a big increase in 2019 when Ramirez is off the books. Martinez might not be real big on that.

 

The Red Sox don't have many top 100 prospects, but almost all of their top prospects (B/B- grade) are pitchers with several being LH. Pitching prospects are expensive; the Brewers won't get as much value compared to trading for position players. The Brewers could keep the pitching prospects, or flip them for an upgrade at SP.

 

The Indians might have an offer out to Martinez as well. Encarnacion moves to 1B, with Brantley/Frazier/Chisenhall manning the OF spots. Martinez is expensive, but they don't have to give up pitching or other prospects. It's salary/performance risk versus prospect risk.

[badger3034]

Or, wouldn't the Red Sox have some interest in Santana?

 

I realize that they may not have the MLB ready arms that we might be looking for in a package for Santana, but maybe we could look to trade him there for a prospect package? However, just looking at Boston's top prospect list - boy, has that system dropped off in recent years (after trades and guys graduating to the pros). Is there much in that system that you'd like to see come back for Santana? I guess I'm thinking that this could help us replenish our farm system a bit, and we could then use some of those pieces to trade for a TOR starting pitcher (either before the season or at the trade deadline).

 

I absolutely think the Red Sox have some interest in him, especially considering the outlandish contract demands of JD Martinez(who they are publicly targeting). I'd be open to dealing for prospects now, signing a FA, and dealing for another pitcher at the deadline depending on our situation.

I would not be at all surprised if JD Martinez is holding up a trade of Santana. Was going to post this last night, but the Red Sox have supposedly expressed interest in Santana and they need a DH. If Hanley Ramirez accumulates 497 PAs this year the Red Sox are on the hook for his $22M option for 2019, and I'm sure they don't want that.

 

It is possible that the Red Sox have made the best offer for Santana, but it is contingent on Martinez going elsewhere. With owing Ramirez $22M this year the Red Sox offer to Martinez might be low in 2018 with a big increase in 2019 when Ramirez is off the books. Martinez might not be real big on that.

 

The Red Sox don't have many top 100 prospects, but almost all of their top prospects (B/B- grade) are pitchers with several being LH. Pitching prospects are expensive; the Brewers won't get as much value compared to trading for position players. The Brewers could keep the pitching prospects, or flip them for an upgrade at SP.

 

The Indians might have an offer out to Martinez as well. Encarnacion moves to 1B, with Brantley/Frazier/Chisenhall manning the OF spots. Martinez is expensive, but they don't have to give up pitching or other prospects. It's salary/performance risk versus prospect risk.

 

I guess it could be entirely possible that another team is holding up a Santana trade, but in my opinion, I don't think anything not involving starting pitching would be an ending spot for Santana. The Sox farm system shouldn't be good enough to spark a trade prospect wise for Santana. If Cleveland is waiting on J.D., then I guess that could be a possibility for the DH spot. If there was a 3 team trade with the Sox/Cleveland/Milwaukee, then I guess maybeeee, but I don't think either of those teams want to miss out on J.D. if they have the opportunity. Doesn't seem to make much sense basically surrendering that much offense to another contender.

[JosephC]

I very ok keeping Domingo around here

 

Agreed. Just get the feeling that opposing teams would only be putting offers out valuing Santana as a 1.5-2.0 WAR player and with only an approximate 600k price tag for 2018...it makes it an easy decision to keep him. Also think if Santana stays the outfield should be Yelich-Cain-Santana and if Domingo hits over the first three months of the season and establishes himself as a solid 3 WAR player, then he could be a wonderful sell at the deadline considering his still low salary and what would be 3.5 years of control left. Still appears to be plenty of doubters now, but likely will be plenty more believers if it gets to the end of June and he is OBP'ing .360 and OPS'ing .870 which are easily within his reach.

[badger3034]

I very ok keeping Domingo around here

 

Agreed. Just get the feeling that opposing teams would only be putting offers out valuing Santana as a 1.5-2.0 WAR player and with only an approximate 600k price tag for 2018...it makes it an easy decision to keep him. Also think if Santana stays the outfield should be Yelich-Cain-Santana and if Domingo hits over the first three months of the season and establishes himself as a solid 3 WAR player, then he could be a wonderful sell at the deadline considering his still low salary and what would be 3.5 years of control left. Still appears to be plenty of doubters now, but likely will be plenty more believers if it gets to the end of June and he is OBP'ing .360 and OPS'ing .870 which are easily within his reach.

 

I think this an easy achievement for Domingo, due to the fact he has some really good hitters in front of him. If Braunny stays healthy and plays 1B on a daily basis, that should be easily done.

[HighHeat19]

If Domingo stays on for the first half and can sustain his numbers from last year he will drive his own price up substantially. Anytime that someone is listed as a possible one year wonder, the jury will be out. Drop 20 dingers by mid July and you now have a truly valuable asset. It also let's you know whether Phillips has it or not for this year.

[82brewcrew82]

If Domingo stays on for the first half and can sustain his numbers from last year he will drive his own price up substantially. Anytime that someone is listed as a possible one year wonder, the jury will be out. Drop 20 dingers by mid July and you now have a truly valuable asset. It also let's you know whether Phillips has it or not for this year.

That'll be hard to do if he is the odd man out and squeezed for playing time. His value isn't going up if he isn't playing everyday and thus not seen as a regular.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If Domingo stays on for the first half and can sustain his numbers from last year he will drive his own price up substantially. Anytime that someone is listed as a possible one year wonder, the jury will be out. Drop 20 dingers by mid July and you now have a truly valuable asset. It also let's you know whether Phillips has it or not for this year.

That'll be hard to do if he is the odd man out and squeezed for playing time. His value isn't going up if he isn't playing everyday and thus not seen as a regular.

 

That's my fear as well. If he is on the team, he's gotta play almost every day. But Yelich and Cain also need to play every day, which leaves a logjam with Thames, Aguilar and Braun ... not to mention next to no time for Phillips, who would be their best defensive RF. I know that having too many good hitters for the spots you have available can be a good thing, but something is going to eventually have to give here.

[Jenkins5]

If Domingo stays on for the first half and can sustain his numbers from last year he will drive his own price up substantially. Anytime that someone is listed as a possible one year wonder, the jury will be out. Drop 20 dingers by mid July and you now have a truly valuable asset. It also let's you know whether Phillips has it or not for this year.

 

Problem is that if Domingo is here until July, it will be tough for Phillips to get enough ABs as 5th OF. Even with Braun playing 1st vs. lefties. Will hard to get full read on his value. Only if NL finally had a DH, Domingo would be perfect! Really hoping they finally make switch in the coming years.

 

Domingo controls own value. Like HH said, he comes out in 1st half & repeats or even better grows, his market will increase.

[pacopete4]

Cain, nor Braun are going to play everyday so it might worth having the four OF’s splitting time with Braun playing 1B and DH’ing when it is available. Does it cut down on some of their plate appearances? Sure. But they might just be more productive by being fresh and healthier.

 

Phillips can begin in AAA. That’s really not a huge concern.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If Domingo stays on for the first half and can sustain his numbers from last year he will drive his own price up substantially. Anytime that someone is listed as a possible one year wonder, the jury will be out. Drop 20 dingers by mid July and you now have a truly valuable asset. It also let's you know whether Phillips has it or not for this year.

 

Problem is that if Domingo is here until July, it will be tough for Phillips to get enough ABs as 5th OF. Even with Braun playing 1st vs. lefties. Will hard to get full read on his value. Only if NL finally had a DH, Domingo would be perfect! Really hoping they finally make switch in the coming years.

 

Domingo controls own value. Like HH said, he comes out in 1st half & repeats or even better grows, his market will increase.

 

Also, if Domingo is hitting bombs and is one of the offense's most consistent hitters in July, and the team is in contention, there would be a fan uproar if they traded him.

 

It's just an odd situation the team is in right now. It's a good situation, as it's always better to have too many assets than not enough, but it's odd.

[HighHeat19]

Cain, nor Braun are going to play everyday so it might worth having the four OF’s splitting time with Braun playing 1B and DH’ing when it is available. Does it cut down on some of their plate appearances? Sure. But they might just be more productive by being fresh and healthier.

 

I agree. This will also allow for match ups to benefit Domingo even more. Possibly even have him in there against poor pitching to increase #'s. Definitely as a DH. And showcase him for an entire series against a potential suitor.

[brewmann04]

I agree let him play the first half he deserves that at least. But if he gets hot the brewers will not be looking to move him.

[Devinep]

There won’t be enough playing time for Braun, Thames, and Aguilar at 1B. Plus the lack of bench versatility would be harmful. I’d also prefer to keep Santana, unless he is used to get a good SP. but if he’s kept, hopefully at least a couple decent prospects could be acquired for Thames and/or Aguilar.

 

Then sign Walker to play 2B as well as backup 1B

[Hewiese3]

In High Heat 19s post he talks about trades being held up by 1 player. What if that player is JD Martinez? All of his suitors would also be interested in Santana, and he would be an excellent consolation prize. I know we have discussed Boston, Arizona, Cleveland, and Atlanta as possibilities. Maybe we are just waiting for that chip to fall before the bargaining for Santana begins.

[WestCoastCrew]

In High Heat 19s post he talks about trades being held up by 1 player. What if that player is JD Martinez? All of his suitors would also be interested in Santana, and he would be an excellent consolation prize. I know we have discussed Boston, Arizona, Cleveland, and Atlanta as possibilities. Maybe we are just waiting for that chip to fall before the bargaining for Santana begins.

 

Pretty sure HH meant the trade(s) are being held up by the Brewers (or trading partner) not wanting to give up a certain player in a proposed deal. Say, Phillips, for example.

[KeithStone53151]

In High Heat 19s post he talks about trades being held up by 1 player. What if that player is JD Martinez? All of his suitors would also be interested in Santana, and he would be an excellent consolation prize. I know we have discussed Boston, Arizona, Cleveland, and Atlanta as possibilities. Maybe we are just waiting for that chip to fall before the bargaining for Santana begins.

 

Welcome to the board

 

You make a good point, add to that the dropoff from Santana to the next corner outfielder is steep...especially considering Bruce came off the board already. HH may not have been referring to Martinez, but he absolutely could be holding up a trade. Problem is, i doubt he signs anytime soon. I think that guy wants like 200 million or something, he's reportedly been offered in the 120 million range and hasn't picked yet...some kind of off season.

[HighHeat19]

In High Heat 19s post he talks about trades being held up by 1 player. What if that player is JD Martinez? All of his suitors would also be interested in Santana, and he would be an excellent consolation prize. I know we have discussed Boston, Arizona, Cleveland, and Atlanta as possibilities. Maybe we are just waiting for that chip to fall before the bargaining for Santana begins.

 

Let me clear that up a little bit. The holdup is a player amongst the teams. Not Martinez.

 

I would put very good odds that something will get done between the Brewers and the Indians before opening day. And it will more than likely include Santana. Do not be surprised if Santana is also dealt for a high end pitching prospect who may only be a year away from major league ready. See Puk/Groome.

[wallus]

 

Do not be surprised if Santana is also dealt for a high end pitching prospect who may only be a year away from major league ready. See Puk/Groome.

 

I'd be on board with that.

[jvrocksaz]

Today on a afternoon radio show here in AZ, the resident Diamondbacks insider stated that the Dbacks have some parameters for deals setup in the case JD Martinez signs with Boston (or elsewhere). He stated quite firmly that the Dbacks will add an outfielder prior to Spring Training and a deal could happen within 24-48 hours from the time Martinez signs (if elsewhere). He stated the deals would be either another FA outfielder or to complete a trade for an outfielder. He stated the trade would cost the team less money and also return a better player then what is available in free agency. He didn’t name any players but that the Dbacks were holding out hope for JD Martinez with plans b and c in place, just in case. He stated the Dbacks were in a holding pattern until Martinez makes a decision. Could this involve Santana?